Spindle Bolt oil groove?

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Oldav8tor
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Spindle Bolt oil groove?

Post by Oldav8tor » Sun May 12, 2019 6:02 pm

I suspect most of you are aware of this but for those who aren't (like I was) this is good to know. I recently replaced the spindle bolts (kingpins) in my front axle. Denny Newman used a Steven's tool to install cone-shaped top bushings in the axle so everything is now nice and tight. looking at the new bolts I observed that the top bushing covered the oil hole in the shaft. The only way oil can dribble down the bolt into the brass spindle bushings was to find it's way to the narrow split in the top bushing. A test showed very little oil making it's way thru.

Conferring with Denny Newman and looking at my old spindle bolts I learned the solution was to grind a small groove from the hole in the spindle bolt to a point below the top bushing (or if unmodified, the top axle arm) so that oil can make it to the bushings. The attached photo of my old spindle bolts should give you an idea what I'm talking about.
kingpins.jpg
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Jerry VanOoteghem
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Re: Spindle Bolt oil groove?

Post by Jerry VanOoteghem » Sun May 12, 2019 7:25 pm

If they are made correctly, (big assumption I guess), the new bolts should already have those grooves. Original bolts had them from new.


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Re: Spindle Bolt oil groove?

Post by Kohnke Rebabbitting » Sun May 12, 2019 7:41 pm

We have always just drilled the center hole in the spindle, between the bushings, and put a small pound in grease zerk in it , and you can fill the cavity between the top, and bottom bushings, and will push gun grease out both top and bottom of the bushings. It lasts a whole lot longer then oil.

We also get tie rod bolts that have the screw in brass oilers, and keep zerks in those. The threads are the same.

On some front ends, we put a one direction only thrust bearing, between the top axle arm, and the thrust on the top bushing. Then you don't have any wear there, and it steers a lot easier.

Herm.


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Re: Spindle Bolt oil groove?

Post by Kohnke Rebabbitting » Sun May 12, 2019 7:51 pm

Some repro bolts are hardened, and then ground, they have oil grooves, or use to.

The cheap ones were ground, and then hardened, have no oil grooves, but the bolts then are all warped, and they are NOT useable, at all, as they are junk.

Herm.

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Oldav8tor
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Re: Spindle Bolt oil groove?

Post by Oldav8tor » Sun May 12, 2019 8:26 pm

Mine came from Lang's - they had a groove around the circumference of the bolt at the level of the hole but not the longitudinal groove.
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Re: Spindle Bolt oil groove?

Post by DanTreace » Sun May 12, 2019 9:27 pm

Unless you can find NOS Ford spindle bolts, they all have just a hole and circumferential groove.

BTY, your old bolts are the nice to have original spring loaded manhole type, the oiler with that manhole cap is integral with that king pin bolt.

Ford design vs. Repro re-engineered. :?
2019-05-12 21.18.28.jpg
Hope the oil runs from that shallow circle!
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Re: Spindle Bolt oil groove?

Post by Original Smith » Sun May 12, 2019 9:41 pm

Those spindle bolts look like 1915. Before that they had NO groove, so apparently Ford discovered the problem early on. I have several late Ford script spindle bolts, and they all have that groove. Randall Anderson is also putting that groove in his reproduction spindle bolts.

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Re: Spindle Bolt oil groove?

Post by Ruxstel24 » Mon May 13, 2019 10:58 am

I robbed the oil cap from this bolt and noticed it has a flat spot down the whole side...
Attachments
IMG_4042.JPG


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Re: Spindle Bolt oil groove?

Post by R.V.Anderson » Tue May 14, 2019 9:48 am

I can't upload photos here but if anyone would like to see how I am making my bolts, which are the ones correct for later '09 through '14, PM me and I will send one directly to you.

rvmodelt@netsync.net


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Re: Spindle Bolt oil groove?

Post by R.V.Anderson » Tue May 14, 2019 10:34 am

The ever-vigilant Chris B. spotted my confession and emailed me some hints. Here goes:
spindle bolt 002.JPG


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Re: Spindle Bolt oil groove?

Post by R.V.Anderson » Tue May 14, 2019 10:35 am

Well, yay for our side! Just goes to show that if I can figure it (computer issues) out (with a lot of help!), ANYONE can.

Thanks Chris!!


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Re: Spindle Bolt oil groove?

Post by HaroldRJr » Tue May 14, 2019 2:33 pm

The photo that "Ruxstel24" posted, shows a spindle bolt that has a pretty simple modification that is the first one I've seen that seems to be a very positive means by which oil can find it's way to the lower spindle bolt bushing.

Also, just sort of "thinking out loud" here, but it seems like folks are using everything from oil (which Ford originally recommended) to grease to lube spindle bolt/bushings, but I really think that what makes the most sense to me is chain saw bar oil, as it is "sticky" and I would think, more likely to "stick" with the bushings longer than just regular motor oil. Also, in the same vain, perhaps Lucas or STP might be a consideration. But even tho' Ford just recommended oiling spindle bolts regularly with a few drops of motor oil from an oil can, if you don't "oil around" REGULARLY, like a railroad locomotive engineer used to do with a steam locomotive, something "sticky" seems to make sense to me,....FWIW,.....harold


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Re: Spindle Bolt oil groove?

Post by Dave Frost » Sat May 18, 2019 10:28 pm

Evidently I have the non-grooved newer version kingpins that the vendors supply now. Question now is, how can I correct this problem, by creating a groove without distorting the rest of the already reamed and fitted kingpin? Thanks, Dave


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Re: Spindle Bolt oil groove?

Post by Scott_Conger » Sat May 18, 2019 10:38 pm

If you will really look...the original '15 kingpin had the hole in the middle of the AXLE boss. The groove then went approximately 1/2 way down into the top bushing. It did not go PAST the bushing. Oil had to still navigate it's way past the upper bushing to get to the lower bushing.

If you have a new kingpin that does not have the groove into the top bushing, then it has a hole at the very top of the bushing with a circumferential groove. Big deal. If your bushings bind on the kingpin, you either dorked up the line-ream or used too-small of a reamer...believe me when I say that after 5 miles of driving, the bushing will be passing oil to the lower bushing regardless of the care or lack of care used in the reaming process.

There are plenty of other things to worry about. Don't lose sleep over this.
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Re: Spindle Bolt oil groove?

Post by Dave Frost » Sat May 18, 2019 10:59 pm

Thanks for the quick reply Scott. This is for a 26/27 front end that I'm piecing together. They have been fitted/ reamed and are beautiful. Maybe when installed, I'll assemble and oil with thin oil before switching over to something thicker. I'll be able to sleep now lol.


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Re: Spindle Bolt oil groove?

Post by Scott_Conger » Sun May 19, 2019 10:04 am

Dave

I'm a big fan of restful sleep. Glad I could help ease the stress. :D
Scott Conger

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Re: Spindle Bolt oil groove?

Post by Original Smith » Sun May 19, 2019 10:26 am

The bottom spindle bolt that Dan posted is correct. I guess from this discussion, that Ford started the long groove in 1915? Randall and I had this discussion several years ago, and it was then that he decided to start the long groove in his spindle bolts. It only makes sense. I personally don't believe a Zerk has any place on a Model T.


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Re: Spindle Bolt oil groove?

Post by Humblej » Sun May 19, 2019 1:25 pm

The oil groove was the circumference cut by 1919 at the latest. I have two Ford drawings of the spindle bolt, one dated 8-7-19, and the other 4-28-22, both have the groove around the shaft, the older one being 9/16" below the bolt head, the newer one being 1/2" below the head.

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