MTFCA Forum

I recently took my Truck for a drive and it went pretty well. The brakes didn’t work very well so the next day I opened up the inspection door to adjust the brake but there was a ton of lint in my trap. I have Scandinavia bands that are about 30 years old. I’ve heard that they tend to deteriorate. What band linings should I get for my truck? Which ones are the easiest to install and cheapest to buy?

Thanks, Jacob Mangold

Which ones are the easiest to install and cheapest to buy?

Scandinavia. You can install thru the inspection cover.
They are very forgiving. Very good for the newbie.
The cheapest is cotton, but dont wear as well.

Where can I get Scandinavia bands? I can’t seem to find them on langs or snyders. Also, I’ll add that I will have the HH off to swap for the correct one.

Hi Jacob,
I used kevlar bands - been good for me - last a long time. Not so cheap but available.,
Cheers
Adrian

Are the Kevlar linings easy to rivet to the bands?

Thanks, Jacob Mangold

I bought some for my 24 Coupe and installed them same way as Scandinavia.

Jacob Mangold wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 14, 2023 7:17 pm

Where can I get Scandinavia bands? I can’t seem to find them on langs or snyders.

Scandinavia linings appear to be one of the repro parts no longer made. Lack of demand because most use Kevlar these days might have something to do with it. I'll be going to bonded linings once my stock of Scandinavia linings run out.

Jacob Mangold wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 14, 2023 7:38 pm

Are the Kevlar linings easy to rivet to the bands?

Thanks, Jacob Mangold

My experience riveting to the band was not difficult at all.

Kevlar bands have been considered almost indestructible to themselves, but...... not to the transmission drums they contact. Tight band adjustment , or an operators heavy foot to slide drum contact will overheat drums and crack drums due to operator error. If you can find NOS Scandinavian liners you may be one of the lucky few. The question is how long will they serve ? Wood band liners are available, and they have not been proven to overheat and crack transmission drums as far as I've heard. Good Luck. !

Transmission bands of Kevlar or Scandinavia will both give good service BUT it’s how you drive or treat them with your food action that can cause issues. I’m in the crowd that says the Scandinavia bands are more forgiving than Kevlar because they wear faster. Kevlar won’t be as forgiving if you don’t get them adjusted right and they don’t wear BUT your drums will.
This can turn into a long thread as they are lots of ideas about which bands are best.

Over the years I’ve come to the conclusion that the right driving habits and right band adjustment is the way to go. And that’s goes for either type of band.

Thank you guys for all of your responses. I just have 1 more question. How hard is it to rivet the wood to the bands? If there are any good YouTube videos you guys know of on installing the wood bands, would you please post the link? Also, people who use wood lining, how do they drive?

Thanks in advance, Jacob Mangold

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uhM4DPE0Fc
https://www.google.com/search?q=youtube ... e&ie=UTF-8

I talked to people in my T club and I think that I will probably settle for the Kevlar bands. They seem like a better investment even though they cost more. Just so I know, what should I avoid in order to keep my drums from cracking when I install the bands.

Thanks, Jacob Mangold

Jacob Mangold wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 15, 2023 1:35 am

I talked to people in my T club and I think that I will probably settle for the Kevlar bands. They seem like a better investment even though they cost more. Just so I know, what should I avoid in order to keep my drums from cracking when I install the bands.

Thanks, Jacob Mangold

Scandinavia lining is still listed @ Chaffins. You must remove the HH to install kevlar or wood.
Search kevlar bans for past posts on roundness, adjusting, pros & cons. Plan on replacing low speed clutch cams for maximum pedal travel.

Have you watched the YouTube video that Mark posted yet?.... We've had wood bands in our 26 roadster for 24 years., And now has a second set. Roundness of the metal bands is very important as it helps to eliminate high spots when the band is compressed in service. Being that you're going to replace bands in a TT truck, the transmission has to stop a heavier vehicle then in a regular Model T, be kind to the transmission drums with wood band liners...... I would rather prefer to wear out the liners instead of the drums then promote drum damage. .... Just my humble opinion, your choice.

Honestly, I would prefer cotton linings but they are hard to find. If Chaffins has them, I will buy them. The cotton linings are easiest to install and are probably the most affordable. If not, I guess I will go with wood because I do not want to destroy my drums. I don’t have enough trust in myself on adjusting that transmission correctly, making sure the bands are 100% round and the right shape, and drive with proper technique. Maybe when I do a full rebuild of the engine when I am a bit more experienced, I will look into Kevlar but for now I think that Cotton will be the best option for me with wood coming in second.

Jacob..... Check out the YouTube video that Mark posted and he does go step by step to make sure that the metal bands are concentric with a transmission drum. No matter what liners you choose, the importance is to have the bands perfectly concentric with the diameter of the drum so when in service the band will have 100% contact with the drum.

Jacob Mangold wrote: ↑

Thu Jun 15, 2023 1:00 pm

Honestly, I would prefer cotton linings but they are hard to find. If Chaffins has them, I will buy them. The cotton linings are easiest to install and are probably the most affordable. If not, I guess I will go with wood because I do not want to destroy my drums. I don’t have enough trust in myself on adjusting that transmission correctly, making sure the bands are 100% round and the right shape, and drive with proper technique. Maybe when I do a full rebuild of the engine when I am a bit more experienced, I will look into Kevlar but for now I think that Cotton will be the best option for me with wood coming in second.

I agree with your assessment.

I did watch the video. Getting the bands perfect doesn’t seem that hard but I do not have and extra drum to for off of nor do I have a vice. Another think I do not like about the wood bands is the ways you put in the rivets. You have to countersink them in.

Thanks, Jacob Mangold

I have Kevlar on two of my cars and they have given me no problem so far. Been on for about 20 years.
Very important things if you use Kevlar. One is to be sure to rivet the ends first and work toward the center. That way the lining is pressed against the band between the rivets. also be sure the bands are perfectly round. Check around an old drum not in the transmission for roundness. Install with hogs head off and have good springs which will keep the bands open when not using the pedals.
Check your drums for cracks. If cracked replace the drum.
This next step is also a very important one. use good cams and on the low gear the low notch is good so that when you tighten the bands to you get one and a half inches above the floorboard the band is completely tight and when the pedal is back it is completely loose. If the cams or notches are too worn you will find that in order to get the band tight with the pedal above the floorboard, it will not completely release with the pedal back. Also adjust for a free neutral and
Lastly when waiting for a signal use the parking lever to hold in neutral so that you won't be holding the pedal too far down and slipping the band.
With all the above, you should have no problem with Kevlar.
Norm

Kevlar is fine (probably excellent) for the brake. They have destroyed plenty of reverse drums though. My preference would be Kevlar on the brake and the other version on the brake and low.

Jacob .... You can easily purchase a used drum, even a cracked drum from any of these suppliers or even on eBay and use that as a reference point since it is the same diameter, or if worn darn close to the same diameter. As far as the rivets.....printed Installation instructions does arrive with your new bands .... And installation is gone over in that video which you can replay in case you have questions as you install your linings...... There are countersunk drill bits .

What size coutersink bit would I need?

Instructions and size of bit comes with the wood band liners when you order. If you do not want to mount the liners yourself, just contact the supplier and he will mount the wood liners on your bands, for slight extra charge that is.. picture is of the bit that I used, sorry I cannot find a size stamped . ......... Supplier: Jim Guinn. 714-222-6867 cell, 6082 Ridge Way, Yorba Linda, CA 92886. .... WEB :: www.guinnbands.com. , Email : jim@guinnbands.com . Jim advertises in our Vintage Ford magazines.

I have one car with wood bands. They have been in for 30 years. I only used to drive on tours and later I got a couple other T's so less driving with this one than when it was the only one I had. I find they wear very well but do tend to chatter more than the Scandinavian or Kevlar.
Norm

Norman ... 30 years on a set of band liners is of great service. Putting on a new set of wood liners will pay for itself three times over. You treat and drive your car very well. ...... Chatter or no chatter may depend on the type of engine oil.... Oh boy, did I open up a can of worms?

Jacob, My recommendation to you is Cotton WOOD from Jim Guinn. Once you use wood you Wood never go back.... Mine have worked very good for years and are clean. The old cotton and also the Kevlar can shed fluff that can clog things up. The comment about the wood chattering doesn't that they chatter while you are driving. Depending on your driving technique when starting from a dead stop. It's always good practice not to slip the band very much so after a short time you will get over any chattering by pressing the pedal a little quicker. IMHO

Kevlar is fine (probably excellent) for the brake. They have destroyed plenty of reverse drums though.

Or maybe those drums were already cracked and would have broken no matter what lining was used. How many Model T transmissions still have uncracked original reverse drums today? Mighty few.

Sent the email to Mr. Guinn.