Revisiting some fabrication

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Rich Eagle
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Re: Revisiting some fabrication

Post by Rich Eagle » Wed Oct 23, 2019 12:18 pm

I made a mount to turn gas tanks too. Lacquer thinner and pebbles clean well. I worried some about a spark inside but it didn't happen. I used the same pulley setup to turn a gallon paint can with sand gravel and rusty bolts etc. Eventually the can sprung leaks so something more substantial would work better. I have spun parts on my craftsman lathe to clean up parts and also bought this brake drum machine. It works great on drums and hubs. Holding the sandpaper against something spinning saves much time. Higher RPMs make for dirty spray slinging. Do be careful not to get caught in the work.
Spinn.jpg
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Re: Revisiting some fabrication

Post by Rich Eagle » Sun Dec 22, 2019 9:19 am

After wearing out my Fathers aviation goggles I set out to make a new pair. The rubber stuff around the outside turned to goo and then hard and crumbly.
Goggles1.jpg
Some brass scraps formed the lens frames built on maple forms. Then some headliner scraps were stitched to wire frames. Strap loops were made from brass also. Fake Fur was sewn around some windlace rubber. The lenses are plexiglass.
Goggles2.jpg
I usually wear them to hold my hat on rather than looking through them. It was a fun project in 2015.
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Re: Revisiting some fabrication

Post by Rich Eagle » Sun Jan 05, 2020 3:37 pm

The Coupe body for sale with all the hard-to-find items and want-ads for mouldings reminded me of the piece I made for my '25 Tudor a dozen years ago. I had searched many years for a door before I found one and it had no window mouldings. I made one using these maple forms and spliced the "pull" from a coupe into it. I wish I had taken pictures then. These forms are still with me. I'm sure someday I will need the one I cut up.
MouldingForm.jpg
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Re: Revisiting some fabrication

Post by Rich Eagle » Thu Apr 09, 2020 8:30 pm

Today I used my Carb Pan and though I could show it. It simply has a sealed tube in the bottom for the carb stem to poke into. This allows about half of the solvent or carb cleaner to be used. Being kind of cheap I try to save my fluids.
CarbPan1.jpg
CarbPan2.jpg
I plan to make a form fitting pan to soak transmissions in too. That might save 200% on penetrating oil.
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Re: Revisiting some fabrication

Post by Rich Eagle » Thu Apr 23, 2020 1:58 pm

I ran across these photos today. I had some steel and built the hood for my '09? touring. Their was no reason not to buy an aluminum one but I enjoy making things. It was good practice and I always learn from doing. I have 3 other cars I keep as correct as possible and 3 that are for fun and to enjoy as they are.
9hoodd.jpg
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Re: Revisiting some fabrication

Post by Rich Eagle » Thu May 07, 2020 12:39 pm

I used this tool yesterday and enjoyed how easy it makes installing the hood clamp springs. I made it from 3 folded layers of 16 gauge sheet. One layer of equivalent thickness or thicker might work well too. The 4 clamps were installed without a problem. Previous use resulted in some bending of the tool ends and springs popping out of the tool. The 2 working screws are 1/4". The #10 at the rear simply keeps things aligned. The photo doesn't fully show that the spring ends of the tools arms are slotted so the tool can be pulled free after cotter pins are installed.
ClmpTool.jpg
In this case the radiator was removed which made visibility better.
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Re: Revisiting some fabrication

Post by Rich Eagle » Sun Jun 14, 2020 4:11 pm

This turtle deck lid I made for a deck that was torn and flattened. It was for my first "Rusty" build and didn't have to be perfect. I bent the edge around a piece of particleboard. It took the outside some time to match the rest of the car but the inside has only rusted as shown in 20 some years and sitting outdoors. (Idaho) The handle was a flattened bolt shank and still has some zinc on it. What reminded me of this was remembering a ruined, rusty splash apron I sacrificed to make the missing piece in the deck. It is shown at top of the first photo with a new bead rolled into it. Then it was simply screwed into place.
TrtlLd1.jpg
TrtlLd2.jpg
TrtlLd3.jpg
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Re: Revisiting some fabrication

Post by A Whiteman » Sun Jun 14, 2020 5:54 pm

"rusty wrecks" are now illegal in New Zealand. A Bureaucrat decided there must be NO rust ANYWHERE on the body work.
This creates a problem for the preserved rust look cars that have been popular here for a while.
Oh well, where would you be without a nanny to wipe your nose for you....

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Re: Revisiting some fabrication

Post by Rich Eagle » Sun Sep 20, 2020 10:26 am

In the early 80's our Speedster was our Tour car. Our new son enjoyed tours on Joy's lap or cozy in a front pack. When our daughter arrived it was apparent we needed more seating. I fabricated a gas tank for the rear and made seats with folding back rests. I had seen a Pierce Arrow with that arrangement.
SpdSeatz1.jpg
SpdSeatz2.jpg
The seats with belts served us well for many tours. Since the kids are grown and we have other tour cars we have changed it back to the round tank. With the tank that low and that far back it was necessary to have it full on steep hills.
Rich
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Re: Revisiting some fabrication

Post by Nathan Pederson » Mon Sep 21, 2020 2:11 pm

One of a kind car. A real beauty, and I bet it's fun to drive.
The seats you had added on were perfect for those cute kids.
Rich, it is always interesting to see the work you are doing!

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Re: Revisiting some fabrication

Post by Rich Eagle » Mon Sep 21, 2020 6:50 pm

Thanks Nathan. I ran some errands in it today. You know what fun that is. Almost time to put it at the back of the shop in favor of warmer cars.
Rich
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Re: Revisiting some fabrication

Post by Rich Eagle » Wed Sep 23, 2020 1:23 pm

I mentioned the battery box I made in the "What did you do...." section. I found photos of it when I made it. Perhaps it will help others with ideas.
Batt2.jpg
The wooden form is maple. I only cut one slot in the steel guide plate and turned or flipped it to each of the 4 positions. Clamping the sheet between the guide and the maple forum I pressed the steel rod into the sheet.
Batt3.jpg
Without good pictures of an original I just estimated what I saw in parts book photos. This was done before I joined the Forum.
I haven't made them for the other cars as they are out of sight. The Tudor I was trying to make as correct as possible at the time.
Rich
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Re: Revisiting some fabrication

Post by otrcman » Wed Sep 23, 2020 2:53 pm

Rich,

When you pressed the beads into the lid, had you already put the perimeter flange on the lid or did you do the perimeter afterward ? I have pressed beads into panels (perimeter done first) and then had trouble with the center of the panel being too "tight".

Dick

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Re: Revisiting some fabrication

Post by Rich Eagle » Wed Sep 23, 2020 9:12 pm

I believe I did form the flange first and the lid does fit the cover a bit tight. That's a good point. I hadn't thought about it.
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Re: Revisiting some fabrication

Post by otrcman » Thu Sep 24, 2020 11:58 am

Rich (and anybody else who's interested),

The link below is a video done by an expert metal shaper illustrating how shrinkage is induced by a bead roller and how to avoid panel warping due to the beads. I know you pressed your beads, but I have had the warping experience both from rolling and from pressing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfsvYSkuc5E

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Re: Revisiting some fabrication

Post by Rich Eagle » Thu Sep 24, 2020 2:12 pm

Thanks for the link Dick. It certainly points out how and where the distortion comes from. Not only does he have some great equipment but he has learned how to use it and solve problems with it. The piece he made is similar to this inspection cover I made for my White. With simpler tools my solution has been to capture both sides with a steel plate. The attaching screw holes act as guides while I press the plates together with the sheet in between. There was some distortion but it came out when the lip was bent over. It was done afterwards in this case. My 12 ton press would not press the whole assembly so I did one side at a time. It did work though.
insp4.jpg
Shown here is the splash apron extension the plate attaches to.
Insp3.jpg
I could not figure out how to roll the bead in fenders without the distortion illustrated in the video. Sandwiching sheet between 2 plates and hammering the sheet into a groove has worked on many occasions. It's interesting how we solve problems in different ways with the tools that are available to us.
Since I don't have elaborate equipment I spend more time making forms and jigs. I bought a full 1/8" plate and had them shear it into different widths. I has been handy in making dozens of parts along with other scraps I've picked up. The luxury of free time allows me to make a lot of fun things for myself but doing this for others is prohibitive.
The more things we see the more we can add to our techniques.
Rich
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Re: Revisiting some fabrication

Post by Rich Eagle » Fri Oct 09, 2020 2:40 pm

I found these photos of my hinge fabrication for my Yellowstone Bus. 6 doors = 12 hinges = 24 hinge halves. Thinking it was crucial to have precision in the slots and knuckles I made a sliding jig for my die grinder. It proved to be temperamental but it got the job done. The steel was malleable enough to just heat and bend. No annealing was done. They have worked well since 1989.
Hinj1.jpg
Hinj2.jpg
When I built similar hinges for my '22 Coupe I found it easier to just file them. Two doors required half as many pieces.
Rich
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Re: Revisiting some fabrication

Post by Dallas Landers » Sat Oct 10, 2020 7:43 pm

I really ejoy your fabrication posts Rich. Gives me all kinds of ideas to try. Thank you and keep them coming. I still have alot of room in my head :D

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Re: Revisiting some fabrication

Post by Rich Eagle » Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:53 am

Thanks Dallas.
My switch plate was bent at the corners as many are. I made forms from maple to straighten them. I used 2 C-clamps to put pressure on them.
Straten1.jpg
Although the lighting makes them look different this is the same plate before during and after the pressing.
Straten2.jpg
I used 2 screws through the mounting holes to keep the forms aligned. The countersunk holes in the center section were used to hold the form to a block mounted in the lathe while cutting the reliefs. Those are located where the 2 rivets that hold the plates together are.
I can use the forms for pressing out the amp gage side by carving 3 notches for the mounting nut keepers.
Straten3.jpg
Making the forms from steel and using a press would even be better.
Rich
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Re: Revisiting some fabrication

Post by Rich Eagle » Sat Nov 28, 2020 1:14 pm

Working beyond my own projects doesn't often happen. Several years ago a nice fellow brought this fire chief's car by and asked if I could make some panels for him. I reluctantly agreed to try and it turned out to be fun.
Chieff.jpg
The techniques were much what I was used to on the old car sheet metal. I don't recall the exact story but it had been in the family and he wanted to restore it and pass it on.
He was a welder so he could install the pieces.
Rich
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Re: Revisiting some fabrication

Post by Rich Eagle » Thu Dec 31, 2020 2:18 pm

I posted this elsewhere but thought it might belong here too. The question was about a seal for '24-25 upper windshield sides. It could apply to similar seals that can't be found.
WthrSrp.jpg
I made a jig to cut the strip to a triangular shape by pulling it past an exacto blade screwed to a chunk of steel. I made the strips 3/16" x just less than 1/2" which was the thickness of the strip I was cutting it from. It is a little tough to get started. It has to be pulled through in one long consistent draw. Any hesitation or stopping with leave an irregular mark which can be seen as a flaw in the lower photos. While perhaps not what the original was it works well.
Rich
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Re: Revisiting some fabrication

Post by CudaMan » Thu Dec 31, 2020 5:11 pm

Richard, I love seeing your fabrication projects, they're inspiring! :)
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Re: Revisiting some fabrication

Post by Rich Eagle » Thu Dec 31, 2020 6:26 pm

Thanks Mark. I enjoy looking back on these. Looking for the exacto jig I found these dies. I made them to form the escutcheon Plates for my '25 Tudor window regulator handles. These are steel practice ones. I made the ones I used out of brass because it plates so much nicer (Nickle).
Escutcheon.jpg
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Re: Revisiting some fabrication

Post by Rich Eagle » Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:57 pm

With the recent Speedster posts I though it might be good to post my version of the "Wheeler" muffler.
Muphler2.jpg
The ad gives the basic dimensions. I cut grooves inside the end plates for a 6" and a 4 1/2" shell. The design is like the original Ford muffler except for the open end with a butterfly.
Muphler1.jpg
This made a stock engine sound very powerful.
Rich
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Re: Revisiting some fabrication

Post by John Warren » Fri Feb 19, 2021 10:32 am

Rich, You are a true craftsman. Absolutely love you sharing some of your work. Definitely shows many of us that if there is a will, there is away. The things that you do are amazing. Thank you!!!! jw
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Re: Revisiting some fabrication

Post by Rich Eagle » Sat May 08, 2021 12:55 pm

Thanks for that John. I know that those like you who do similar things can enjoy and learn from them. I know I've learned a lot from the forum posts.

I don't suspect my sermons on wet sanding have recruited any followers and maybe that is just as well. My lungs and neighbors are grateful though. I mentioned I have used nearly all the methods that have been suggested but this is both a pleasant and a doable pastime for me. Shown here is the 1914 frame I did 6 years ago.
sandFrm.jpg
The other day I discovered a quicker way to clean around rivet heads. I was scouring a non-T part but I could have saved some time if I had thought of this while doing the T frame. Instead of searching for a part of the paper with grit on it and use my push sticks, I decided to roll some sandpaper outside-in and put it in a drill. A bit of masking tape keeps it rolled tighter. By finding the right speed and pressure it will clean several rivets before it breaks out. A piece of tubing around it might make it last longer too.
SandCyl.jpg
I think it is a good option if one doesn't want to fire up the sandblaster. This part has two parts riveted to it and I wonder about sand finding it's way between the pieces and grinding or trapping moisture.
Again, do what works for you but think of alternatives too.
Rich
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Re: Revisiting some fabrication

Post by Rich Eagle » Sat May 22, 2021 3:26 pm

Rather than use good original dash brackets on a car with mismatched parts I decided to make some new brackets. These don't really show but I still wanted them to look right. By bending a 90 degree leg for one bolt and welding a tab on for the other it works like the original.
WFbrackets.jpg
WFbracket2.jpg
The three dash bolt holes were match drilled to the original. Then flat washers were bolted in place to grind and file around. With a little shaping it looks very similar. I saw no reason to carve out the dished portion at the back of the bracket and this is stronger.
I see new ones for $81.88 a pair and original ones from $100 to $249 a pair so those who need them don't have to make them. I just make things for the fun of it sometimes.
I now recall a previous set of brackets I made from 2 pieces of flat bar. A 90 degree leg was bent from each of them. This worked well too.
WFbracket3.jpg
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Re: Revisiting some fabrication

Post by Rich Eagle » Wed Jan 05, 2022 1:59 pm

This is a mold and 3 carbide tank gaskets. Lower left is a brittle gasket I took out of an old tank. Upper left is one I made of silicone sealer. Upper right I believe is a repro I bought. Lower right is the maple mold I turned to cast them in. I have an additional gasket made of black material that is in my tank currently. Many of you know lots more about casting rubber parts. This was my first try. I sealed the maple with clear urethane. I also wax the mold before putting the silicone in it with either paraffin wax or floor wax to aid in removing the finished gasket.
CrbTnkGask1.jpg
CrbTnkGask2.jpg
I haven't needed to make too many interesting things lately. Bringing this thread up allows new comers to see some of the things that can be made and some of the rest of us can look at them again.
There is a lot to be seen back on the old posts but we don't go there often enough.
Thanks
Rich
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Re: Revisiting some fabrication

Post by varmint » Wed Jan 05, 2022 2:46 pm

Rich,
There are always many of those who are levels above me and you are one. This past week I was searching through the new, 2018, and 2017 forums looking for information before I post my next topic. Yes, the old is good. Glad to see your fabrication work and it inspires me to ditch my wood mold that failed and build a steel one as you suggested.
Vern (Vieux Carre)


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Re: Revisiting some fabrication

Post by Dallas Landers » Wed Jan 05, 2022 5:10 pm

My dad always said " where there is a will, there is a way". Thanks Rich, always like your fab projects.

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Re: Revisiting some fabrication

Post by Retro54 » Wed Jan 05, 2022 7:31 pm

Dallas Landers wrote:
Wed Jan 05, 2022 5:10 pm
My dad always said " where there is a will, there is a way". Thanks Rich, always like your fab projects.
My grandfather always said where there is a WHEEL there is a way. Ha!

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Re: Revisiting some fabrication

Post by perry kete » Wed Jan 05, 2022 8:33 pm

My Dad always said where there is a will there is a way
My Dad always said where there is a will there are new found and unknown relatives! :shock:
1922 Coupe & 1927 Touring

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Re: Revisiting some fabrication

Post by Rich Eagle » Sun Jan 16, 2022 6:18 pm

So many times one thing leads to another. Steve Jelf mentioned his hood former problems. I dug some out of the rafters and tried to sell some bad ones. This one was so bad I pondered straightening it. Could it be done?
Frmr01.jpg
Frmr02.jpg
After designing some steel forms I rethought it with Maple half-rounds on a flat base. The thought of sawing 2" dia. steel down the center gave me some pause.
Frmr03.jpg
The first step was to press the metal flat again onto some plywood with flat forms. This took a couple of hours and plenty of clamps. It flattened out fairly nice.
Frmr04.jpg
When did I do that?

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Re: Revisiting some fabrication

Post by Rich Eagle » Sun Jan 16, 2022 6:24 pm

The next step was to screw some pieces in place to hold the half-rounds. Then re-clamping the piece as before pressing it into proper shape.
Frmr05.jpg
Another couple of hours and pushing here and there returned it to it's basic shape.
Frmr06.jpg
I believe the 20-80 rule applies here. 80% of the job is accomplished in 20% of the time. It will require quite a lot of metal finishing to make this look respectable. However, buy careful clamping and supporting the metal while pressing minimized stretching and stressing the metal.
Over 4 days I spent about 14 hours doing the woodwork and 5 hours pressing the former back into shape. It might take 2 or 3 dozen more to really clean it up. If I come up with any interesting tooling I'll post it too.
Like so many tasks, it's hard to justify the time compared with the parts value. To ship one of these, straighten it and send it back would cost several hundred dollars at todays prices. But again, the fun of trying to save this is very satisfying. Whether it comes out nice or not I can build the right car for it.
Rich
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Re: Revisiting some fabrication

Post by Rich Eagle » Wed Jan 19, 2022 6:45 pm

Here is bar bent to fit the inside radius of each corner of the inside lip. I made a narrower one to fit the outside. They allow knocking down some kinks while keeping the shape. Vise grips are good for holding the former to the bar and also work good for pushing some distortions back into place. The leverage they have is wonderful.
Frm2-1.jpg
Some of the kinks in the quarter-round shape are too much for the maple forms. I happened to have a 2" bar I could use to backup a curved shoe I can clamp the sheet-metal between. 3 C-clamps give enough pressure to straighten that portion fairly well.
Frm2-2.jpg
I put a radius on the end of the shaft to fit the 1/4 round as it turns. I pressed some flat 1/8" thick plate to the right radius using the shaft and the 4 curved pieces shown lower right in the last group of pictures. They rested in a piece of angle iron for pressing the shoe. Then they were glued to the wood pieces for final use. That is a new plywood form for holding the shaft at the right elevation and position relative to the former. I put a plywood guide in the center to hold the shaft but it turned out that it interfered with the clamp ends.
I believe this is the last tooling of any interest. The rest will be clamping between bars and boards.
Thanks for looking.
Rich
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Re: Revisiting some fabrication

Post by Dallas Landers » Wed Jan 19, 2022 7:09 pm

Thanks Rich. This shows that a little thinking and creativity can overcome most problems. Saved another piece from the scrap pile. You have a talent for that also. I remember the flat touring car.

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Re: Revisiting some fabrication

Post by Rich Eagle » Sun Jan 23, 2022 6:01 pm

Thanks Dallas. The tooling has brought this to an acceptable stage for a rusty car. It is basically straight. Many of the minor imperfections don't show because of the rust. I spent a couple days sanding one area down to show the high and low spots. I think I'll save further work for a nice sunny day outside.
Frmr08.jpg
Here is a review of this corner in it's ordeal to becoming straighter.
Frmr07.jpg
Happy metal bending. It can be done.
Rich
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Re: Revisiting some fabrication

Post by Rich Bingham » Sun Jan 23, 2022 6:54 pm

Rich, it's always immensely satisfying to see your solutions !
"Get a horse !"

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Re: Revisiting some fabrication

Post by Rich Eagle » Mon Jan 24, 2022 10:58 am

I'm glad you enjoy them Rich. Countless articles and now videos showing the things I like to do have inspired me over the years. I try to give a little bit back. The professionals who do this sort of thing could show us much more but because they are in business are discouraged from posting. We have lost some expertise of late that would have been fun to see more of. I have the luxury of doing it for fun.
more later.
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Re: Revisiting some fabrication

Post by Jerry VanOoteghem » Mon Jan 24, 2022 2:39 pm

Rich Bingham wrote:
Sun Jan 23, 2022 6:54 pm
Rich, it's always immensely satisfying to see your solutions !
Yes! Solutions that are clever in their planning and expert in their execution!


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Re: Revisiting some fabrication

Post by Dropacent » Mon Jan 24, 2022 3:50 pm

Love this stuff !! How can you possibly do any of that work without CAD, CAM ,digital readouts ,lost wax, 3D printing,etc ?? These skills are priceless to have, and appreciated. JMHO

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Re: Revisiting some fabrication

Post by Rich Eagle » Tue Jan 25, 2022 2:49 pm

Thanks Jerry and Tim.
As bad as this hood former was the hood pin hole was wallered out but the metal was all there. I needed it flat to allow other portions to fit against back up plates. By using a square end punch I could flatten it back in place. I still will add a thickness there for future durability.
Frmhole.jpg
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Re: Revisiting some fabrication

Post by Rich Eagle » Fri May 06, 2022 1:15 pm

I have a little trouble pushing the transmission band rivets through the lining. I made this tool from drill rod. It will be easier to hold in place while I punch the tang slots.
RivTool.jpg
It was made from leftover drill rod from making the rear axle bearing rollers for my 1907 Buick. I couldn't find any that size. The plain rollers have been fine for many years and will last for as long as I am driving the Buick. I used a cobalt drill bit to drill the ends for the cage ends.
BkBrngz.jpg
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Re: Revisiting some fabrication

Post by Angmar » Fri May 06, 2022 3:26 pm

Rich Eagle wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 12:39 pm
I used this tool yesterday and enjoyed how easy it makes installing the hood clamp springs. I made it from 3 folded layers of 16 gauge sheet. One layer of equivalent thickness or thicker might work well too. The 4 clamps were installed without a problem. Previous use resulted in some bending of the tool ends and springs popping out of the tool. The 2 working screws are 1/4". The #10 at the rear simply keeps things aligned. The photo doesn't fully show that the spring ends of the tools arms are slotted so the tool can be pulled free after cotter pins are installed.
ClmpTool.jpg

In this case the radiator was removed which made visibility better.

Wow Rich. I want one of those or at least to borrow one..
Still crankin old iron

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Re: Revisiting some fabrication

Post by Rich Eagle » Fri May 06, 2022 5:03 pm

It takes as long to build one as it does to install 4 hooks without one. :lol:
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Re: Revisiting some fabrication

Post by Rich Eagle » Tue Jul 05, 2022 2:54 pm

I stumbled across some of the E&J lamp parts and tooling today. I was enjoying the inside reflector panel I made from .020" thick brass shim stock and had nickel plated. I also made the open door and lens ring for the taillight in the picture.
Nickel plating is so much more expensive now days and our plater is retiring to do other things. How glad I am I did these when I did.
Tlitez1.jpg
The first offering in this thread shows how the burners were made.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=371&hilit=revisiting#p2318
It was fun to look in the box of those items. The wrinkled burner base show some of the difficulty in spinning them.
Tlitez2.jpg
It is satisfying to look back at some of the things we do and remember.
Take a few picture of your projects to remember them and post them on the forum for the rest of us to enjoy.
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Re: Revisiting some fabrication

Post by Rich Eagle » Sat Aug 27, 2022 6:38 pm

I was removing and saving some hub bolts today and thought I would show some pictures of how I'm doing it to save the bolts and nuts. Of course new ones are available but I like to save the old stuff if possible. A true purist might number, catalog and reuse them in the original holes but I'm just doing this for fun. :D
Hubblotz1.jpg
Since these are peened over I need to get the mushroomed metal back to a smaller diameter to keep from loosing the nut threads. Tightening the nut will expose more of the bolt thread. Starting with a chisel I lift the edge up. Then I can pinch it with vise grips. Heat could be used to anneal the end of the bolt. A little grinding can also help. Sadly you can't get down far enough to remove all of the compressed metal and the nut will suffer some thread damage. I turn the nut back and forth a lot as I remove the nut. Penetrating oil helps too.
Hubblotz2.jpg
I have split a die in two by grinding it on two sides partway through and then cracking it in two and leaving a broken edge that keeps it in alignment. Cleaning grease or wood remnants out of the threads I can then put the two die pieces around the bolt threads and assemble them into the die holder. Then turning the assembly up the bolt renews the threads over the peened potion of the bolt. I don't tighten the die holder set screw as that would put too much pressure on things. Shavings appear as the bolt has likely stretched some and can be bent too.
Hubblotz3.jpg
The original nut can be tapped to restore the threads. Enough metal has been removed from both that the fit between the two is looser than when new. The threads may be good enough to tighten them without stripping. After all they will be re-peened or riveted when the wheel is reassembled. A better alternative would be to buy new nuts. A Heavy hex nut is the right hex size and can be turned or ground to the right thickness. A new nut on the restored bolt would be tighter and less likely to strip out. Another approach would be to crack the old nut in two to remove it. That would result in less damage to the bolt threads.
Hubblotz4.jpg
These techniques might be useful elsewhere to save part which can't be replaced. The price of new hub bolts and nuts make this kind of work questionable but for the satisfaction in rescuing original parts.
I always recommend that in the interest of safety that any wheels to be used on any antique car should be rebuilt by a competent wheel expert. I have bought re-wooded wheels for most of the cars I tour with.
Have fun and be safe.
Rich
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Re: Revisiting some fabrication

Post by Jerry VanOoteghem » Sun Aug 28, 2022 7:29 am

Rich,

I've seen very few hub bolts that haven't been stretched and necked down to the point of making them junk. Apparently, the ones you're working with are in better condition than that.

I like your split die technique.

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Re: Revisiting some fabrication

Post by Rich Eagle » Tue Aug 30, 2022 6:36 pm

Thanks Jerry. The wheels I have been taking apart have exceedingly good wood. That may be why the metal parts are better than some. The last 3 bolts and nuts came apart easier than the first 3 and threaded better. It may be I'm getting better at it. :D
LugBlttzz.jpg
Wheels in worse shape might have been tightened more and therefor stretched more. I have seen many of them too.
Then there are the stalactites.
When did I do that?

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Re: Revisiting some fabrication

Post by Rich Eagle » Sun Mar 19, 2023 3:23 pm

I don't post on this thread as much as I would like because I'm not building as much lately. I have started tooling to make a heat pipe. I will post more when I get there.
Pipe.jpg
So far, I have turned maple for the inside shape. when it gets warmer, I will cut some steel to form the outside.
New members may enjoy some of the previous projects. I always like to see what others are making.
Thanks
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Re: Revisiting some fabrication

Post by Dallas Landers » Tue Mar 21, 2023 8:48 pm

I always like your projects Rich. Sometime I think, why didnt I think of that. You make it look easier than it is sometimes. Its good to see others projects and how they go about it. I alway seem to learn something. Thanks Rich.

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Re: Revisiting some fabrication

Post by Rich Eagle » Mon Apr 17, 2023 1:55 pm

The heat pipe is finished except for some filling of slots and dents. The photo angle makes it look larger than the original. It did turn out .080 larger in diameter but not as much as it looks here. I had to squeeze it a bit to fit the carburetor recess.
Included here is the progress shown on the What...in April thread.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=35785
HeatPip1.jpg
It was easy to flip the steel forms and their wood standoffs from inner pipe setup to outer on the mounting board. Then similar pattern and forming were accomplished.
HeatPip2.jpg
The contours at the upper end of the pipes are involved and make pressing the round portion difficult. A hose clamp helped hold the metal to the form while correcting it. Making the fillers for notches was tedious at best. While they only have to fit well enough to keep the silver solder from flowing through, they are small and hard to position. When they fall on the floor, they are difficult to see or find. The final joining ot the two halves was done in the same forms as used before.
HeatPip3.jpg
You can see that the upper flare took some violent pounding to get close to the desired shape. The pipe radiuses out so a form was made to accomplish that. Pounding and soldering makes the part look pretty awful, but it all can be cleaned up with a little effort.
HeatPip4.jpg
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Re: Revisiting some fabrication

Post by Rich Eagle » Mon Apr 17, 2023 2:04 pm

An error was made estimating how much metal was needed at this end. I cut some scrap and added the necessary shape to it. Silver soldering and shaping it gave it what it needed.
HeatPip5.jpg
If this work wasn't enjoyable, I wouldn't do it. The flaws in this item and differences from the original are minor and subtle. It will look good enough for me and save any available originals out there for some other disserving car. I can make a second one for my other car if and when the spirit moves me. The 80 to 100 hours in this are only worth the fun and satisfaction they give.
Enjoy whatever tasks you like to do. That's where it's at.
Rich
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Re: Revisiting some fabrication

Post by Kaiser » Tue Apr 18, 2023 4:53 am

Looking at your 'projects' gives me great satisfaction, i can relate to the idea of just trying for the fun of it. Great stuff !
When in trouble, do not fear, blame the second engineer ! 8-)
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Re: Revisiting some fabrication

Post by Rich Eagle » Tue May 09, 2023 3:58 pm

Thanks Leo.
This is the flame arrestor for my ’09. It could have been a relatively easy assembly to make with the proper equipment, correct materials, and necessary skill. I was able to accomplish it with lesser degrees of all three. We sometimes make things look easy. I assure you, this task was not and I walked away in disgust several times. With your indulgence, I will still tell the story.
FlmArst.jpg
I attempted to thread the end of the 1” tube to fit the air horn. Wood plugs were made so the tubing wouldn’t be distorted when turning it the lathe. Unfortunately, the plug prevented me from threading the air horn on the new threads for a trial fit. By the time I thought I might have the threads about right, they had gone nearly through the tube wall and gripped the wood plug so it couldn’t be removed. My tubing was about .017 wall and much thicker would have been better. But I was using what I had on hand. My solution now was to make and adapter that would be the correct threads and slide the tube over the upper, unthreaded portion of it.
FlmArst1.jpg
For the top I planned to spin some .020 sheet over a wooden form. A hardwood stick with beeswax on the working end forces the brass over the form. I spun some E&J side lamp burners 11 years ago. (See first entry on this thread) Spinning requires more experience than I have but that doesn’t stop me. I use a Craftsman lathe but it’s top speed isn’t fast enough to do this as I would like. The brass must be annealed when it gets work hardened. I couldn’t get propane so I bought map gas instead. Map gas is too hot and my nozzle (for propane) was not letting me adjust it where I needed. The result was improper annealing. Some areas not enough and some too much. After many sessions, I got the brass to conform to the wooden form about 80% of the way. The last of it would not go. Many wrinkles and some hardening I couldn’t relieve. There were a few cracks forming. I wasn’t convinced a new piece of brass would do better so I left the project for the day as I had done a few times before.
FlmArst2.jpg
The next day, not wanting to give up, I cut notches several places around the outside and used a hose clamp to persuade the diameter to fit the form. By tapping the high spots, I got it close to shape. Silver solder seemed like my last hope. To keep the solder from dripping through the slots, I cut some .010 stock and placed it inside the rim.
FlmArst3.jpg
It looked like disaster after the soldering but I was pleased too see it resemble a round shape after filing and sanding the outside. There are some pits and dents from all it’s been through. I can live with them thinking an old, beat-up original might not look any better. I learned a lot and considered other options. If I decide to make one later, I always can
Rich
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Re: Revisiting some fabrication

Post by Jerry VanOoteghem » Tue May 09, 2023 4:19 pm

Rich,

I always enjoy your "can-do" approach and your wonderfully written descriptions of your work. Both are greatly entertaining! :)

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Re: Revisiting some fabrication

Post by Rich Eagle » Tue May 09, 2023 4:45 pm

Thanks Jerry. I should mention the great dimensional help I got from John Tannehill on this post.
https://www.mtfca.com/phpBB3/viewtopic. ... or#p279713
Having better dimensions than I could guess at made it much better.
Also, Martynn Vowell's illustrations were good to have on hand.
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Re: Revisiting some fabrication

Post by James Yuill » Tue May 09, 2023 7:15 pm

Rich You are truly a dedicated master at metal work. I enjoy your step by step photos and the results are spectacular
You don't give up and abandon the project..sometime you have to take a time out...return and view it with fresh eyes and maybe a new approach. Life is about the journey not the destination.
Keep up the great work and keep the cards and letters coming!
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Re: Revisiting some fabrication

Post by Scott_Conger » Tue May 09, 2023 7:50 pm

this is not to take away ANYTHING regarding Rich's spinning effort, but merely for educational purposes...If anyone is interested, here you can see how metal is drawn. A good example would be the bowl on a brass carb (or others). From the process, you can probably draw some conclusions (no pun intended!) as to why brass bowls are so prone to cracking and in such a predictable manner...: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFwItdLi3Hw
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Re: Revisiting some fabrication

Post by Kevin Pharis » Wed May 10, 2023 12:12 am

You are not alone in your metal spinning frustrations Rich. You may have seen my carburetor float project on another thread where I vent about having hired 2 professional metal spinners to spin .012”-.015” brass sheet. Both spinning efforts failed miserably with the material thickness being the excuse. That’s what led me to spending dozens of hours building a hydraulic forming fixture that luckily yielded fantastic (yet tedious) results. Your final project looks fantastic! Keep up the enjoyable work👍

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Re: Revisiting some fabrication

Post by Rich Eagle » Wed May 10, 2023 1:15 pm

Thanks for the encouragement. Also, the drawing video. It would be worth it to make steel forms for making these and make a few to sell. I have considered building a better spinning lathe, but I need some more urgent project to get me going. The drawing would be good if the volume of parts would justify the fabrication of the forms. I did have some luck pressing my wooden form into the brass against some hard rubber. It formed the first 1/2" fine but buckled the rest. The nice thing about a hobby is we can try what we like and fiddle with it. I'm fortunate to have stuff on hand to use. When I was making lamp doors I ended up with several cutouts that would work well for these tops.
brasss.jpg
I have learned so much from these discussions that I keep trying new things. It makes me happy we can share information here.
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Re: Revisiting some fabrication

Post by Rich Eagle » Tue Jul 11, 2023 2:15 pm

This brass fan pulley had lost its front flange and worn paper thin where the crown should be. I thought about wrapping some brass sheet around it and then found that a used slow speed trans drum bushing was nearly perfect to fit there.
Pullee1.jpg
By cutting the bushing in half and notching the ends, I could silver solder it in place of the missing bronze. It will wear better than yellow brass would. I added a few holes to melt solder into and tapped it for some #6 screws to help anchor it. Clamping it tight and wiring it kept it tight for soldering.
Pullee2.jpg
I built a little cave out of fire brick to keep it an even temperature while the solder melted.
Pullee3.jpg
Then I cut a brass flange for the front from brass. Bronze would have been better, but I didn't have any handy.
Pullee4.jpg
I reamed out the worn bore and machined it to shape adding some crown to it. I will build up the old shaft and fit it to the pulley.
When did I do that?


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Re: Revisiting some fabrication

Post by speedytinc » Tue Jul 11, 2023 2:37 pm

This proves ANYTHING can be repaired with the will to do so.
Those with rare orphan cars have no choice as there are no spare available.

Good job! 8-)


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* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: Touring, Coupe, Roadster, Ton Truck, Chariot
Location: Langhei, Minnesota
MTFCA Number: 51087

Re: Revisiting some fabrication

Post by Nathan Pederson » Tue Jul 11, 2023 6:21 pm

A crowning achievement!
Nicely done.

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Rich Eagle
Posts: 6781
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:51 am
First Name: Richard
Last Name: Eagle
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1909 TR 1914 TR 1915 Rd 1920 Spdstr 1922 Coupe 1925 Tudor
Location: Idaho Falls, ID
MTFCA Number: 1219
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Re: Revisiting some fabrication

Post by Rich Eagle » Wed Jul 12, 2023 3:18 pm

Thanks guys. I was pleased to use the low bushing to build up the fan pulley. In looking for something to make sleeves for the fan shaft, the only thing in the shop close to the right size was an old, rusty T wrist pin. It makes me chuckle to reuse Ford parts to repair things. They are good material. The pins are hardened so I heated it red hot and let it cool so I could machine it. It machined well except for some portions a few thousandths deep. I should have left it hot longer.
FnShft1.jpg
Then I pressed the two machined sleeves onto the old fan shaft. I also tapped the assembly for #6 screws to insure it would not turn. The other shaft between the pulley and the fan shaft is a mandrel I made to fit the rebored pulley before final shaping. This made the work concentric with the shaft when running.
FnShft2.jpg
FnShft3.jpg
I have new fan blades and rivets on the way.
I made this sketch of what I believe the inside of the pulley looks like. You can see how thin it wears from the belt. It appears that the pulley should be filled with grease so that when the grease cup is turned the grease will be forced both ways. It seems like a waste of grease.
pulleee.jpg
Another way to save these pulleys would be to just make a new sleeve to go between the flanges. It would be tricky to keep everything aligned. I also considered just machining the fan shaft, so it was round again and making bronze sleeves to fit into the pulley bores. I don't understand why this pulley lost its front flange that the lade rivet to. But I have 2 of them that way.
When did I do that?

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CudaMan
Posts: 2373
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 4:17 pm
First Name: Mark
Last Name: Strange
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1924 Cut Off Touring (now a pickup)
Location: Hillsboro, MO
MTFCA Number: 30944
MTFCI Number: 23667
Board Member Since: 2013

Re: Revisiting some fabrication

Post by CudaMan » Wed Jul 12, 2023 5:26 pm

Richard, your fabrication skills and willingness to "give 'er a go" are an inspiration. :)
Mark Strange
Hillsboro, MO
1924 Cut-off Touring (now a pickup)

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