MTFCA Forum

Hi all,
Tried to start the 26 tourer today. NG. On battery one coil was buzzing continuously as I cranked the starter and one cylinder fired only. No start. The buzzing was on all the time, even when I hand cranked. The car ran fine 2 weeks ago after many years. What would keep only one coil buzzing non-stop as long as the key is on battery? Any thoughts would be very helpful. Thanks.
John

Some thing is grounding the timer wire. check the wires going to the timer.

You have a short for that coil. Something is touching the timer at that terminal, or a broken wire touching ground, or a short in the coil box.

Check around the timer where the wires are attached. That’s where they are closest in that area to short. Just guessing

There is a bolt to the passenger side of the motor under the timer. Common problem if the bolt is not head side up.
A way to test is turn key on & move spark lever. See if it stops buzzing. Look around the timer for a grounded wire.

I did move the spark lever up and down but buzzing continued unchanged. I'm not near the car now but I'll check all the wiring. Thanks folks!

As the the others have said, something is shorted out. Check the timer wires for bare spots, make sure nothing is touching the terminals, and the timer for being shorted. Don't try to start the engine until you figure out what's wrong and fix it or you may end up with a broken starter or arm.

Stephen

With the switch off take off 1 terminal wire at a time where it’s screwed down to the coil box terminal on the firewall.
Turn the switch on and if it’s not buzzing you’ve probably found the wire that’s shorted. If it still buzzes put it back on and try another one. And so on until you find the right one that won’t buzz. That’s probably it.
Trace that wire and you’ll find the issue.
It won’t take but a few minutes to do this and it’s pretty simple. Good luck. You’ll probably get other ideas too.

Lift out the buzzing coil & trace the wire back.

I guess I'm lazy

I'd turn the key on, put my finger on the coils and see which one was buzzing...pretty simple...that's the one that's grounded

turn the engine over by hand one cylinder at a time - if same coil continues to buzz and it's the only coil that buzzes, then the timing gear or timer is damaged...more than likely, you'll find more than one coil buzzing at a time as you turn the engine over which tells you the timing gear is just fine and the trouble is in the wiring either shorting on the timing rod or a nut holding the block to the pan AND it will be the wire to the coil that continually buzzes.

I worked on a car that did the thing. The fiber timing gear had failed so the cam wasn't turning.
Just a possibility, good luck.

I'm on the edge of my seat! Any news?

I had about 15 minutes to check things. #2 coil is still buzzing. Switched out with #1. But red wire is the one. Checked wiring around timer but didn't see anything suspicious. Spark lever movement changes nothing. I'll have to check valves and see if cam isn't working, and is stuck on #2 piston. Would that mean timing gear? Big problem???

Pull the timer off. The brush may not be held on. You can turn the hand crank & see if the timer brush rotates.

A quick check of the gear, take the oil fill cap off, look in the hole, and crank over with hand crank. Gear should turn.

Great suggestions friends! Thank you so much. A little background: I was driving the car around the block for the first time. Then it stalled right in front of the house. Then nothing. I'll next check the timer and timing gear. I suspect I'll find the issue there. Happy birthday USA!

Remove the timer , remove the wires. Use a continuity meter on each terminal and to the timer case to check for short. I had similar problem where there was a metal fragment from the felt seal retainer shorting out a terminal to the comutator case

NY,

A T ignition system 'works' by 'something' going to ground to cause the hi voltage to discharge when the 'something' ground occurs. In the T this is the timer and as the engine turns, the cam turns, and the timer opens and closes as the brush/roller spins around what can look like a distributor cap from the inside.

Do not let the fixed buzz, buss for long as you troubleshoot, on extensive buzzing they could actually pit and later weld together.

You already swapped coils with no change...so it isn't your coil.

The coil box can not have any internal shorts, and at the porcelains there can be no shorts if a metal firewall.

No chaffed wiring...

It's then TIMER.

So, is the camshaft stuck while the brush/roller is in one of the 4 ground position? I'd just pull plug #1, take a flashlight, and peek at the valves...they go up and down while you hand crank with ignition off, your cam is turning.

Pull the timer. Did the cam end nut work loose, the small end cap draw forward and the dinky little pin fall to the bottom?

Look at the inside track of the timer, probably nothing there but good to know condition.

Is the timer hooked up to the advance rod and the rod attached to the lever on the column? (If a cotter fell out)

None of the flag connections on the timer harness can touch ANYTHING during the entire travel of the advance! They also have isolator fibre washers that go on first, and may or may not have been used.

That should be about it, and somewhere in there you should have a eureka moment? Good Luck.

EUREKA George! You hit it on the head. Today I had time to go through checklist. #1opened oil cap and turned hand crank; looks OK. #2 pulled spark plugs and saw valves operating, looks OK, number one and four are fouled. #3 checked wiring again; no shorts. #4 took off timer, bingo. Flapper wasn't turning with the cam. The pin was missing and the collar was stuck, locking the flapper. Also, the end nut was very loose. Maybe the loose nut started the whole thing. Now I need to find that pin. I had altered the collar to fit everything and wonder if I caused the problem in the first place. Thanks everyone for your support and suggestions. John

I assume it is the standard steel timer, Tiger type. I have found several that don't have insulation of the terminals where they pass through the timer shell. Oil with small amounts of small metal shavings collect there and short out one terminal giving a constant buzz. Simply clean out around those terminals and reassemble, preferably with a small bit of insulation in between. Many good timers are discarded prematurely because of this. The timer is good until the insulator the brush runs on has worn dips into it. I believe the original timers had good insulation there.
Always listen for the tiny, constant buzz.
Rich

No need to worry finding the old pin. The pin cannot fall into the engine crankcase and a new pin costs 25 cents at Lang's. I always keep several on hand because of the chance of dropping and loosing it when changing the timer. I hadn't thought of making one from a nail.

Art Mirtes

I was able to find the pin for this new Anderson timer on the floor. I believe the nut being loose, backed out enough to allow the collar to be just far enough out to allow the pin to fly off the cam shaft. Problem is, I can't tighten the end nut too much or the collar will lock up the flapper and it won't move up and down. I didn't use locktite to set the nut before, but I will now. All coils now buzz correctly. Thanks. John

The brush fit has an issue. It needs shimming or modification.
Leaving the nut loose or backed off is not the answer.

The pin retaining cap is not the same as for a roller timer.
The cap is cut away to clear the flapper's required movement.

I believe John stated the obvious - there are 2 different length Anderson flappers available apparently due to the different hub thickness of available cam gears.