MTFCA Forum

I have a newly restored 1913 touring with engine splash pans installed that boils over after a drive regardless of idle time. Does anyone have any experience that points to the pans causing this?

have you ever driven a "T" before?

how old is the new radiator?

how much total estimated run-time is on the engine?

I am very familiar with driving a T. I also have a family member who has driven T's for decades, so no fear of "over running" the engine. The radiator is original, no leaks and was not boiling over when I ran it stationary in the drive way as a chassis. I have a new radiator on order coming in 4 months.

Engine is a rebuild I did, has about 30-40 miles of drive time and many hours running stationary.

If your timing is correct, it will very likely settle down with a new radiator.

I've been waiting for almost 8 months for a radiator which was 4 months out, too...good luck.

Thank you sir.

Engine pans enhance cooling whenever the car is moving. If you are running an original radiator, there is a very good chance that it is not working as it was designed to.

A T radiator can fail to provide adequate cooling in at least 3 ways:

(1) Leaks
(2) Obstructed tubes
(3) Fins that are not making good thermal contact with the tubes.

# 3 may not be obvious.

The splash pans should not cause overheating. It is easy to find out if they do, by removing them and taking it out for a drive. A rebuilt engine should be driven slowly for about 200 miles or so. Alternate speeding up and then slowing down and only a mile or so at first. When it loosens up it should run cooler. Be careful of overheating because it could cause the pistons to seize which can damage them and the cylinder walls. Most usual causes of overheating would be going up a long grade on a hot day and then stopping for a signal. As long as air is blowing in the front of the radiator it should run at normal temperature, but when you idle after a hard pull the fan is turning slowly and not driving into the wind, so it will warm up.
If the radiator is old even though cool, the brass corrodes where it goes through the fins and you will lose heat transfer. So even though it is clean, it doesn't transfer the heat. Other causes would be a lot of rust and dirt inside the block and head passages, but if it was recently rebuilt, that should have been cleaned out. So I think the problem is the radiator. As long as the spark is set right and the carburetor is not too lean, that would be the most likely cause.
Norm

kommandant 95 wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 13, 2023 9:41 pm

I have a newly restored 1913 touring with engine splash pans installed that boils over after a drive regardless of idle time. Does anyone have any experience that points to the pans causing this?

Absolutely not viewtopic.php?f=2&t=34917&p=270763&hili ... ns#p270763
I explained it above as being part of the cooling system. That explanation goes along with why Hot Roders louvered their hoods and why modern cars have pans under their engines now. Without the pans air turbulents result and the the negative pressure zone is defeated. Some people don't use them because they of the effort to put them back on. The "fan" at idle is not very efficient at providing cooling - effiecient cooling occurs while driving at speed. Boil over - radiator issues or coolant issues neither solved with a period correct water pump.
When was the last time ou did a radiator flush?

And just where is the flow of air going to go with a 1913 non- louver hood and engine pans fitted? if the radiator is marginal at best being over 100 years old, with even less flow by fitting the pans, well, yes it could very well run hotter than it should.

When I have refilled my radiator I tend to over fill and usually have a push out of excessive coolant when heated up and stopping both while driving then stopping at idle or during the cool down burping process at warm shutdown.

After it levels it's self off it does not boil over or out the overflow anymore.

You just might be over filled and have not found the correct operational coolant level yet.

Kristian, this may cost you 20-25 dollars but may help resolve the issue if your block water jacket & or radiator haven’t been really cleaned out. The caveat is, as pointed out, that other than a good cleaning your radiator would be able to shed the heat. Thermo cure or Evapo rust used in conjunction with water in your cooling system may clean out the water jacket and radiator making the heat transfer more efficient.
Both products are most likely available at a parts store or major general retail store. I bought the Evapo Rust at Harbor Freight. With the 20% off coupon I think it was $22. I drained the block & radiator. Flushed with water out of the hydrant. Then I added a gallon of Evapo Rust & distilled water to the cooling system and went for several drives over the next week. At the end of the week I drained the system being sure to capture the liquid after it filtered through an old T shirt for use later on. You would not believe the junk that came out of the system. It was so muddy looking that I decided to remove the bottom hose and flush with regular water until the water ran clear out of the radiator & block. Presto Change oh. After refilling the system and going for an extended drive the engine ran noticeably cooler based on the motometer reading. Now I do that procedure once year. Again you need to have a radiator that isn’t junk. Good luck hope that helps.

kommandant 95 wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 13, 2023 9:41 pm

that boils over after a drive regardless of idle time. ..... points causing this?

Model Ts that can idle after long run, without overheating must have good cooling system. Boiling over is definitely caused by either very low coolant level, or very poor cooling system, i.e.dirty, clogged or poor radiator or clogged block and hoses.

If boiling over (i.e. steaming), be very sure of adequate coolant level. The T uses the famous 'thermo-syphon' system, but many forget the 'syphon' part. Just like any syphon you do with a hose in a bucket, as soon as the hose is out of the water, no flow. Same in the Ford radiator, if coolant isn't filling the upper outlet, the thermo-syphon will stop. The result is the coolant stays in the block and will continue to heat and reach boiling.



Note red line where coolant level must be maintained


The cooling system of the Ford is easy to check with a simple inexpensive infrared tool, point at the upper tank after engine is warmed up, should read up to 180 or so, too hot to touch. Then point at the lower pipe, should read around 120, low enough that you can touch. The difference of around 70-80 degrees indicates an effective cooling of the system, where the motor is staying around 180, typical for internal combustion motor. And after shut off, the radiator coolant can make gurgle sounds like minor rolling boil, but that is just the system cooling down without air flow, normal and harmless.

Are you sure the car is overheating? As the water heats up it will expand. If the radiator is filled all the way to the top, some of the expanded water will go out the overflow. Then when it cools off the water should be about half way up the top tank. If there is steam coming out, it is overheating. Sometimes after a hard pull on a hot day, when you turn off the engine it will gurgle for a few seconds, which is normal.
Norm

Interesting...

I have a dumb question about this statement...

""It's possible that the engine splash pans are contributing to the overheating issue..., but if they are installed improperly or are not functioning correctly, they can actually impede airflow and cause the engine to overheat.""

How can they be install incorrectly and how can they impede air flow?

What Dan Treace said about measuring the temperature of the radiator top and bottom.

How can they be install incorrectly and how can they impede air flow?

It used to be that "only the Shadow knows!"

now it is "only the BOT knows"

Read my post about Evans Waterless Coolant.

My car is also a 1913 with a brand new engine. It was overheating just like yours is. I now have 3 days of driving on the new engine and have used about 2 tanks of gas. The Evans Waterless Coolant solved my problem! No more overheating and no more coolant flowing out the overflow tube. It is a much cheaper solution at around $250 bucks than purchasing a new radiator. That price includes the Prep Fluid to flush out the old coolant.

My car is completely stock including splash pans.

Rod wrote: ↑

Sat Jul 22, 2023 6:31 pm

Read my post about Evans Waterless Coolant.

My car is also a 1913 with a brand new engine. It was overheating just like yours is. I now have 3 days of driving on the new engine and have used about 2 tanks of gas. The Evans Waterless Coolant solved my problem! No more overheating and no more coolant flowing out the overflow tube. It is a much cheaper solution at around $250 bucks than purchasing a new radiator. That price includes the Prep Fluid to flush out the old coolant.

My car is completely stock including splash pans.

It's entirely possible, and not at all uncommon, that your engine runs hot because it's a "brand new engine", with rings, pistons not fully seated and bearings still a bit snug.

The OP, if the use/non-use of engine pans is the "tipping point" between boiling or not boiling, I'd say your cooling system is very marginal at best to begin with.

If I had a newly built engine, the last thing I would do is change something that allows it to run hotter.

Allan from down under.