MTFCA Forum

I think it was about 10 years ago, maybe more but someone at Chickasha was making a bottom panel with the troughs already formed that you could weld, after a little work, onto a later teacup pan to give the appearance of a one piece pan. Anyone know whom that was? I’m looking for one to do just that. Any help is greatly appreciated.

Best John

YOu might contact John Borinakis (SP), the top bow maker in Auburn Ca.. He took over Ron Brown's top bow business many years ago and Ron did make repro 1 piece pans at one point.

Thanks Dan

John, I remember a guy from Florida who had pans already done, and had the inserts. He also had the front axle ends to make a 1 piece axle. I will rattle that around and try to come up with his name. I wouldn't be surprised that he has passed.

Steve you just rattled my brain was his last name Johnson?

you guys are thinking of Glenn Johnson in FL. All but 100% certain that Glenn's gone.

He did pans, early axles, and had bought the castings/patterns/drawings for very early Kingston 5 ball carbs from Ernie Brown. I visited him once with some curiosity about buying the carb business. I concluded that while they were lovely, they would always be reproductions and cost (at a minimum) about 2/3 the price of a "real" Kingston at the time...and it wasn't a "business" in the sense of it, it was boxes and boxes of 1/2 finished parts, castings, etc., with no supply chain, distributors or production going on. I passed.

Shortly after, Russ Potter bought it all.

Scott, bingo as usual. Thanks for the info, I suppose that will ends my quest.

If I recall correctly, Erik Barrett in Auburn California sold the last of Ron Brown's pan adaption panels about three to four years ago. Unless more have been found, or I expect a few individuals may have one or more hidden away?

Wayne I’d certainly like to buy one if they do!

You can make your own using a large C channel as a support at the bottom, cut out dipper channels, box and form ends, then heat and form to your liking. Use your imagination.

Hank

Years ago we bought the Ron Brown estate collection. Included with that was the bucking die he used to make the one piece pan bottoms. We left it there and it was scrapped. In hindsight I wish I had saved it but I had no interest in pounding on that thing for days to make a fake pan. I straightened many of Ron’s one piece pans. By the time he was done with them they were as crooked as a ramen noodle. Took hours to iron them out. But they look good. I bet a majority of T’s currently running an early style pan are using one of his pans. There is a reason they are rare. Quite frankly, they suck. You have to nearly dismantle an early T to deal with a rod knock. There were replaced at the earliest opportunity when the newer style pan came out. Ron also made some special ones for open valve engines that were stuffed with a model A stroker crank. I was sworn to secrecy about those but the statute of limitations has expired.

JTT3 wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 27, 2023 9:05 pm

Wayne I’d certainly like to buy one if they do!

John, I swear I do not know of a single one! If I did, I would chase it down for you.

John I am on the trail of a pan and maybe an extra panel.
Pan is one that has had panel installed. Text me, you know the number.
BR 549

About a year ago I facilitated a restoration that put me in direct contact with one of the reproduction Ron Brown pans. It was still wrapped in the shipping cardboard from Ron. Thought we had located a nice piece in preparation of a nice rebuild. Well now for the “rest of the story”. Rebuild was completed, everything buttoned up, pan lined up nicely with block, hogshead, and 4th main so all looking great till we tried to insert the crank handle and engage the crank shaft pulley. Turned out the the centerline of the crank handle was 5/8” above the centerline of the crankshaft. Right and left alignment was just right but not the up and down centerline. Well we all know you can’t simply bend the nose of the pan up or down just so you can “kinda get the crank handle to engage the crank pulley”. That one went on the pile and I located another “real” one piece pan and at no small expense. Lived and learned from that one.

Mike's experience is why the KRW pan jig is the best tool for checking pans. The KRW jig has a plug that checks the hand crank bushing alignment.

Mike Lebsack-Iowa wrote: ↑

Mon Jul 31, 2023 5:05 pm

About a year ago I facilitated a restoration that put me in direct contact with one of the reproduction Ron Brown pans. It was still wrapped in the shipping cardboard from Ron. Thought we had located a nice piece in preparation of a nice rebuild. Well now for the “rest of the story”. Rebuild was completed, everything buttoned up, pan lined up nicely with block, hogshead, and 4th main so all looking great till we tried to insert the crank handle and engage the crank shaft pulley. Turned out the the centerline of the crank handle was 5/8” above the centerline of the crankshaft. Right and left alignment was just right but not the up and down centerline. Well we all know you can’t simply bend the nose of the pan up or down just so you can “kinda get the crank handle to engage the crank pulley”. That one went on the pile and I located another “real” one piece pan and at no small expense. Lived and learned from that one.

Mike L, Makes me wonder whether the nose of the pan itself or the riveted on casting was at fault in that case?
A couple decades ago, I stumbled into two original NOS early nose castings for cheap. Knowing I wanted to put together a couple brass era cars and being on a tight budget, I figured I might run into a pan needing the casting replaced for cheap, so I bought them.
Several years later, I was trying to piece together my 1915 runabout on the cheap. I found a 1915 style pan at a Bakersfield swap meet that needed quite a bit of repair, including replacing the nose casting as the original one had been hacksawed off.
So, I dutifully set about removing the remains of the original casting from the steel pan. I then carefully lined up the NOS casting, the predrilled rivet holes lined up perfectly! I bolted everything together very tight! Then I replaced each bolt with a hot rivet one at a time. I followed that with brazing the piece in place as per the original.
I then repaired, welded, and brazed the rest of the pan as needed, removed a few dents, rebuilt the drain sump and plug (it was in nasty shape!), then carefully measured and checked the pan for straight, tweaked it a bit until I was happy with it. Finally, the final touch, I slid the hand crank into place and ----. Yikes! It lined up fully an inch to one side! A nasty "oh $h!t" moment! I stood back for a few minutes, then began to inspect the problem up close. It turned out the hole drilled for the hand crank to fit into the casting began centered, but wound up crooked, by a bit much. I considered it carefully.
I was able, using a couple feet of 3/4 inch steel rod through the hole as a guide and a lever, a lot of heat on the casting, and some use of a hammer, to shrink and twist the nose of the casting enough to make the steel rod line up centered into the center dip for the crankshaft in the pan. A little bit of filing was needed for the nose piece to settle nicely into its cradle on the spring/engine mount. But actually, not much material needed to be removed.
The engine assembly was done, the engine installed, and it cranks over just as it should.
Clearly, that NOS replacement casting was defective! I have read on the forums from people that know more than I do, that Ford often sold defective parts to dealers as replacement parts. The feeling seems to be that the dealer could spend the extra time to carefully refit minor "miscuts" whereas a few seconds delay on the assembly line could really mess things up. That actually does make some sense.
It makes me wonder if your pan had had the nose piece replaced with a NOS one also?

Thanks, interesting and thought provoking. The fellow who I have do the rebuilds is very knowledgeable retired airline tool and die maker. He studied our conundrum for hours/days and determined that the potential resolution was not worth the effort. I will share your experience with him, I am sure he will be very interested. I am not sure where that pan ended up, perhaps back in circulation. It sure did present well but it was not my property and the owner had access to an authentic pan. Thanks, Mike