MTFCA Forum

I was browsing on Facebook & saw that a young fellow,Jason Anderson, is going to be offering negative ground 6,8 & 12 volt regulators soon. In his post he states that if it fails it will automatically ground the starter. I’d rather not join the PT BARNUM society but I saw that several folks from the forum were interested in buying several. Does anyone have more detailed information on this? Best John

Would be interesting to see the reviews on this.
Craig.

Interesting, ..... sounds more like an April 1st post, Ouija board included !

Scoped the facebook profile.
It reeks of scammer.

He is no scammer!!.
Genius electronics guy, new to the T world. Member of the Orange county club.
Some of us have been pushing him on this project since no one else has got off the dime for a year.
I expect to get an 8v unit from him thursday for testing.
I will post my experiences.

Not much info yet. He didn't participate in any of our design discussions and has had no contact with anyone from our group and there's no info on how he tested it. He's also very new to the T world, but appears to be learning quickly. Here's what I do know about it:

You'll need to already have a diode based cutout (it will not work with a standard cutout) like Nurex and some of the vendors offer and it's going to be mounted in a black magnetic case and will have to be wired into the battery and generator output. For the adventurous, he says it's small enough that you could tear the diode cutout open and try and mount it inside giving you that "stock"appearance.

That's about it. No details yet on what kind of design he's using or how he tested it. Time will tell. I sincerely wish him luck. He's more than welcome to join the discussion. I cancelled ALL my social media accounts so someone who still has FB should invite him to participate here.

If you followed our discussions while we were designing our version, you'll note that Tony Bowker identified at least 5 different cutout can designs (viewtopic.php?f=2&t=25609&hilit=Cutout& ... 00#p221890) and I've seen several others as well. Only a small number of them are suitable as donors to house electronics. Lack of a suitable cutout enclosure stalled us as the overwhelming majority of folks seemed to want a drop in replacement for the cutout like the Fun Projects regulator. I'm working on solving that issue and may be close to it. Also, by putting our designs out there for the world to see, scrutinize, test and comment on results in a far greater chance of success and uncovering what happens when failure occurs.

And no, John, we certainly aren't sitting on any dimes. LOTS of work has been going on behind the scenes. The regulator design our group here "settled" on and have been using in several of our cars for well over a year now has undergone rigorous testing with many successes and at least one very serious failure requiring a design update (lots of smoke and a completely fried dash wiring harness was involved at a July 4th parade no less). It is now almost completed. In fact, I've been running a real world test setup using the regulator every day for 5-6 hours a day solid for the past week or so. Luckily I have lots of generators! As many of you know, I have been rebuilding Model T generators commercially for several years, so I come at it from a different perspective. After seeing and rebuilding literally hundreds of failed generators, I know what fails in these units, and how. My regulator design testing regiment involves different charge rates, different loads, extreme heat, different batteries, different generators, complete forced failure of different components, etc. I did have one generator fail while it was set at 10 amp chg rate (people still do this - you know who you are) and by no fault of the regulator, but the testing of our final design has now proven it extremely reliable and very solid. If I'm gonna sell these in the future, I want to be absolutely sure they will work and not cause failures.

Rushing this and getting it wrong would be frustrating at best if it breaks, and result in a car fire at worst. Only my quick thinking and resulting actions saved my car from a pending fire. It was good for a really intense adrenaline rush though...
. Keep in mind that these devices are directly wired to your batteries. And we have lots of wood in our cars, especially the wood firewalls in pre '26 cars that the burned out wires above pass directly through. Fire. Wall. Hmmmm..... In retrospect, I really was lucky that I got the battery disconnected in time...

There are several approaches to this simple but thorny problem. If it was easy, everyone would have done it by now. I should have several completed circuit boards based on our updated design done in a week or so. Then it's time for more testing.... good thing I'm retired now

AdminJeff

speedytinc wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 02, 2023 8:31 am

He is no scammer!!.
Genius electronics guy, new to the T world. Member of the Orange county club.
Some of us have been pushing him on this project since no one else has got off the dime for a year.
I expect to get an 8v unit from him thursday for testing.
I will post my experiences.

YAY!!!

Sometimes, when something seems too good to be true - it actually IS true! Go Jason Go!!!

It's funny, years ago I knew of the Hyatt bearing issue, and resolved to do "something" but it, like most OP (Old People) projects fell by the wayside... until I saw the thread about rebuilding the 24 rear axle... So yeah, I don't know if I can be "on a mission" (depends on a lot of factors) but it's worth finding out if it's a Mission Impossible...

(As always, we disavow any knowledge of this idea... This rear end will self destruct in 5 seconds... Good Luck, Jim! )

Moxie and Bob.... Jason Anderson is a Young new Orange County Model T Ford club member and has been attending the club's Thursday night work parties and is very interested in the Model T. Several of the guys have been telling him that he might use his Genius electronic skills to make some needed parts and accessories. I want to wish Jason the best of luck in his new endeavors as he works on the regulators, possible speedometer, RPM and other ideas offered. Seems like one might also be a repop of the Slick Magneto battery charger that is no longer available??

Good Luck Jason!

If one has a diode cutout, it would seem that a voltage regulator could go anywhere in the circuit between the generator and starter switch. An electronic VR could be hidden near the starter switch and no one see it under the floorboards.

I will keep a check on this thread. Sadly it seems We lost the reliable regulators from John Regan.
I Still to this day wonder why the generator couldn't be converted internally somehow to make it a common 2 brush design so a regular off the shelf 6 or 12 volt regulator could be used.

tdump wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 03, 2023 12:24 pm

I Still to this day wonder why the generator couldn't be converted internally somehow to make it a common 2 brush design so a regular off the shelf 6 or 12 volt regulator could be used.

It can be if you want to install a second terminal. Several cars in my club have external Lucas/Bosch type regulators used this way.

speedytinc wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 02, 2023 8:31 am

He is no scammer!!.
Genius electronics guy, new to the T world. Member of the Orange county club.
Some of us have been pushing him on this project since no one else has got off the dime for a year.
I expect to get an 8v unit from him thursday for testing.
I will post my experiences.

Thank you. I'm happy to be wrong!

Speedytinc..... Did you get your 8 volt unit this evening?

Moxie26 wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 03, 2023 8:41 pm

Speedytinc..... Did you get your 8 volt unit this evening?

No.
I did get 2 see the 3 voltage versions. Jason has some enclosures coming in a few days & wanted to mount it in before I take possession.
That will allow for a hidden or firewall mount. The circuit board is sized to fit in a mechanical cut out can.
So the unit (it does have a diode built in) can be used remote with an existing diode cutout with or without a by pass wire for visual original appearance. Having cutout cans made is requiring a large investment for the quantity. I suspect they will be offered for the buyer to use an existing can.
Ill update with pictures when I have it. You can see from the face book grab what they look like.

So you saw something, but have nothing to test yourself.

speedytinc wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 02, 2023 8:31 am

Some of us have been pushing him on this project since no one else has got off the dime for a year...

John,

I just wanted to gently mention the following in order to counter any view that nothing was being done on the community regulator project:

You may be aware that Tony Bowker was quite involved with the community-developed regulator (viewtopic.php?f=2&t=25609&hilit=Cutout), and that sadly he passed away in March. There had been quite a bit of off-site discussion and progress on the regulator amongst various of us (Tony, Mike, Jeff, John, and me) which had admittedly stalled some around the time Tony became sick.

However in recent times we'd revived the project and Jeff has been looking at sourcing cans so that people will be able to get a complete unit. This had seemed to be a sticking point for some. Additionally, and along quite a few miles, John and Jeff have been conducting significant empirical testing to ensure the ultimate design is as robust and trouble-free as possible, particularly given the Model T electrical environment.

All of this has involved us spending time and/or money in order to achieve the best possible outcome, Tony had been involved in this and had generously posted prototype boards to various people for them to test, and now Jeff has said he hopes to have a revised board in test shortly...

As for the regulators offered here, I have nothing to do with the general twitface social environment, but if anyone does I'd be interested to know more about them from a technical perspective, in particular more about the circuit design itself? Presumably it isn't one of the community regulator designs as this chap, to the best of my knowledge, hasn't been a contributor there (and it is usual for people to acknowledge the source of such work) so perhaps it's a new design altogether?

Luke.

speedytinc wrote: ↑

Wed Aug 02, 2023 8:31 am

Remember to prioritize safety and reliability when dealing with automotive electronics, as they can have a significant impact on the functionality and safety of your vehicle.

Very well Said...

Some will read this as being disingenuous, I can assure you it is anything but...

My Model T almost caught on fire after an early voltage regulator circuit design failed and had its way with my wiring. Circuit/physical modifications & recommendations were made to account for this. If our final design fails, your car simply won't charge...

I really do hope Jason on FaceBook is ultimately successful with his regulator. We sincerely need folks to succeed with new ideas in our hobby. However, the videos he posts and his descriptions of function suggest he has absolutely no clue about how battery charging or severe, harsh environment (ie Model T) voltage regulators actually work. I make this statement with sincere and educated concern.

Understanding fully this harsh and 100+ year old Model T electrical environment is an absolute prerequisite to designing a safe and functional voltage regulator for a Model T and not something that can be taken lightly... The group that helped design our regulator has a combined experience of over 150+++ years both in in electronics and the Model T world. This is why its important to not work in a vacuum. Apparently some folks invited Jason to participate in our open forum voltage regulator debate. He never responded.... Why?

The literally hundreds of posts in the DIY Regulator Forum and hours of off forum email exchanges all of us had while we designed the Voltage Regulators (I literally just shipped today to Steve Lang and Steve Tomaso to test) were extremely well thought out and questioned extensively, thoroughly tested and peer design reviewed so that we can all benefit from this work. One-off designs that don't go through this kind of testing and review - well.... you can take your chances, but all you have to do is look at pics of my fried wiring harness and decide if this is something you're willing to put up with.... or not...
. .

Lastly.... John states:
"So the unit (it does have a diode built in) "

There is no apparent heat sink for that diode that I can see in the pics he posts. The surest way to create a fire situation in a model T is to not have a heat sink on a cutout diode. If it shorts out, see the pics above for an idea of what happens then. I literally was just monitoring my regulator today with an Infrared Thermometer Gun and the heat sink on the diode I have is more than adequate, but it does get HOT, but well within design tolerances. With no heat sink, this would be absolutely catastrophic, and a sure way to create a potential fire situation. Again, see Pic above for more info...
It should be noted here that this can ALSO happen when your original cutout malfunctions and sticks in the on position. It depends entirely on the condition of the generator and battery but is another really good argument for putting a 20A inline fuse in the T charging system. A new generator is a LOT less expensive than replacing the entire car.

I strongly advise a good fire extinguisher be handy when testing unknown electrical components. I keep one of these in my toolbox at all times and I hope I never have to use it:

https://www.amazon.com/UTVDistribution- ... 9hdGY&th=1

Someone other than me (as it would appear as self serving and I don't have a FB account) REALLY needs to invite FB Jason to join us here and debate his design... I'm really not sure why he won't do that...

If you want to know where I am in the DIY Voltage Regulator saga, heres the link:
https://www.mtfca.com/phpBB3/viewtopic. ... 14#p296865
I'll be shipping in production this week for all the orders that have come in so far.

As always, Your Mileage Will Vary...

Jeff

tdump wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 03, 2023 12:24 pm

I Still to this day wonder why the generator couldn't be converted internally somehow to make it a common 2 brush design so a regular off the shelf 6 or 12 volt regulator could be used.

Late Autolite 12 volt generators used on Ford Falcon, Mustang, Fairlane, etc , can easily be adapted to bolt up to a Model T. I am presently running these on my two T's for over 30 years. I recently had to replace a bearing on one of them. They are no longer being sold but adapting looks easy.
At first glance they don't look out of place on a T like and alternator does.

That looks much better than a alternator!
Alot of folks hang a alternator on the side of a old tractor and it looks like fido's backside after a swim in the swamp.

A friend near me runs a two brush regulator on his generators and it works just fine. I didn’t get into specifics of how he did it

VR UPDATE:

I received the newest VR version from Jason. Magnetic base to stick inside the frame rail out of sight.
I left my diode modified cutout on, but not needed.
The unit (8V) Sends a charge until the battery recovers to 8.25 ish volts, then goes to ground. (shuts off the charging)
Turn on the lights, It starts charging again. Shut the lights off, a minute or so later back to ground to maintain 8.25 volts.
The ammeter needle doesnt have wild swings Test successful.
I will be passing the unit to another member for more testing time. This fellow drives his T truck daily.
He is also running an 8V battery.

I am told 6, 8 & 12 V versions are planned.
There is another version coming soon with a switch to set for any of the 3 voltage requirements.
Not clear if this version will be the conventional can type, top of generator mount.