MTFCA Forum

Posted: **Wed Aug 30, 2023 7:17 pm**

Been wanting a T for 20 years. Have an A but wanted a T. Bought on local, 1927 Tudor, “Dad drove it in the barn, I watched him”. Yep it likely did on about 1960. Seems the 10 year old boy didn’t know or hear the rod knock that made them park it. Didn’t hear it when I cranked it by hand before buying.

Pull pan to look it over and find loose rod bolts and find babbit all but gone. Pull it apart, buy a pile of parts and start the complete rebuilt. Full stop right now because of no camshafts available. Not putting a used up cam in an otherwise brand new engine.

Next I buy a 25, again told it ram and drove. Was a farm car. Get it home and running. Runs OK but has some issues. Cracked head, blow head gasket, band trans bands and a host of chassis issues. But it drives for the most part. It was just a frame, cowl and windshield. Was going to build a truck bed and just make a fun driver.

Along comes car 3. Nice 26, original car. No engine. Good body and lots of “parts” came with it. Figured I’d take engine from the 25, slide it into the 26 for a decent driver while I wait for a can for the 27.

Pull engine and figured might as well look it over inside while it’s out. I find debris. Seems magnet keeper came off, hit mag coil and wadded up the oil funnel. So I start looking and making a list of every thing the “running” engine needs. The List is long and would be much shorter if I listed what was good.

Buy engine 3, a 26 that was pulled because car was hit decades ago. Old boy said she was in good shape. HAHA.

Maybe in 1970 it was, before the mice moved in. Another, order everything but a block, job it seems.

I’m thankful that I can do all the machine and dab work myself (outside of grinding the crankshaft) but man, it’s getting old ordered $300-400 worth of stuff weekly and not getting ahead of it. I know in the end I’ll have 3 cool rides but this isn’t what I expected. I was hoping to get one running and enjoy it before the next step, seems Im at rebuild it all top to bottom, then sit on it all winter.

I’m just bummed and venting a bit, sorry guys. It just seems there isn’t a middle ground for a guy to get into a car. It’s either a $3,000 car that needs $10k invested or buy a $10k car that needs another $3k invested.

Again, sorry for the rambling.

Posted: **Wed Aug 30, 2023 7:30 pm**

Don't feel discouraged, it happens to the best of us. Sounds like you will have some nice engines when done.

Sometimes you get a winner, an old unrestored car sitting since 1929 that runs with a tank of fresh gas, a new battery and one half-pull on the crank (like a '21 Touring I helped a buddy buy), others are like my TT, which had a slightly warped and not-so-torqued head that leaked for 5 years and filled the block anti-freeze and moisture.

Good thing is Ts are cheap, easy to work on/bring back and plentiful. Could be worse, could be a Duesenberg with a chucked rod...

Posted: **Wed Aug 30, 2023 7:31 pm**

Robert,

You are playing our tune. I believe about 90% of Model T purchasers have buyers regret so to say. All good, you will get thru this.

Hank

Posted: **Wed Aug 30, 2023 7:33 pm**

Bummer, but maybe you should stick to one car, get it done to your liking and enjoy it.

Posted: **Wed Aug 30, 2023 8:02 pm**

I here ya! Hang in you will get there.
Mine is a nut and rivet ground up resto. I hope to be done by 2026 but every time I turn around a kid breaks an arm. $$$ Kids got a cavity $$$ Wife went shopping $$$$ yellow jackets in my roof $$$ cats got a kidney infection $$$ groceries are a million dollars a bag $$$ I just hope there is something left for Hershey! Keep your eyes on the prize

Bryant

Posted: **Wed Aug 30, 2023 8:44 pm**

Lord man why do you keep buying stuff? I mean really now. I’ve had 3 T’s. 2 ‘23 Touring cars and a ‘27 Tudor. The Touring’s ran and sounded good and I wouldn’t buy the Tudor until it too was running. I don’t buy cars that don’t run and I also don’t buy cars without a clear title. Just my thing but it leads me to your post and complaint about constantly buying parts and not getting ahead. You’re digging a hole and it’s getting deeper. Settle on one and stick to getting it to a running driving enjoyable condition. Never going to get clear if you keep buying junk. Reminds me of the joke concerning a guy digging a hole because his metal detector was getting a good reading. Got down to 12 feet deep before he realized the detector was reacting to his steel toed boots.

Posted: **Wed Aug 30, 2023 8:53 pm**

I’d love to buy a nice running driving car but a $10k ride wasn’t what I wanted. Being new all I read and hear about is how cheap T’s are and how tough, reliable they are.

My plan was to buy one car, and make it what I wanted. With camshafts being not available for 6-8 months and no clear timetable for them (I see Chaffins may have regrinds now) I simply tried to do what I could to get ahead. All cars have titles and the 2nd car/chassis did run, it simply had issues no one could see without pulling it apart. Yes, it’s a hole, I hope to dig out and have a nice collection, it’s just pretty dark down here right now. By spring I’ll have 3 cool rides and invested well over the $10K I should have spent on someone else’s restoration.

Posted: **Wed Aug 30, 2023 8:58 pm**

Yes, Chaffin's had - and may still have some cams from the original order and 30 more are on the way. Don't give up...call Dave tomorrow, and you may have a cam to install over the labor day weekend...maybe.
Good Luck

Posted: **Wed Aug 30, 2023 10:54 pm**

It takes time and money to fix them up. Here is a picture of one I bought and restored. it took about 10 years in my spare time. I still had some engine problems and finally put a SKAT crank and a stipe cam and bored cylinders and sleeved back to standard. It runs good but about 2 years ago blew the rear corner of the head gasket behind the manifold. I did not see it leaking. Finally got a new copper head gasket after several months and I replaced the freeze plugs and gasket. I found that the last bolt in the back was torqued tight before it actually pushed the head down so it was leaking in that place and when it got hot it actually blew the gasket right next to the steam vent. This vent is the little hole right in the corner next to the manifold and the two bolts are placed where the corner of the head is between the bolts. Anyway I placed a washer under the head of the bolt and torqued down. This was over a year ago and so far it does not leak even when parked. The reason this happened was that many years ago the threads in the head were shot and I placed a helicoil in that hole. I didn't drill quite far enough because I didn't want the bolt hole going into the water jacket. Consequently the bolt was about one thread short of holding the head tight when the torque wrench showed it down tight. Anyway the reason I tell you these things is that sometimes one small thing is all it takes to have a problem.
Another car I bought before that one was a 26 Roadster. The bolts into the rear brake drum one of those holes in the drum was cracked and even though the bolts were wired together that one came out and went around the flywheel which messed up the transmission.
The third car Was all restored when I got it and seemed to run fine, however the low cam and notch were worn out and so in order to get the pedal to compress the band I had to tighten it so much it dragged on the drum. Eventually the low drum cracked and jammed the entire transmission. I even had to put the rear axle on a rolling jack to load it onto the traileer. Had to rebuild that transmission.
So I have had some problems with each of my T's but now they are all running and seem to be in good condition.
Norm

Posted: **Wed Aug 30, 2023 11:25 pm**

Been there man. Take a look at the thread Getting Rattles Back on the Road. I think I've had to touch almost everything. I feel your pain. Keep at it you'll have some nice cars when you get done.

Posted: **Thu Aug 31, 2023 12:15 am**

My turnkey truck was far from satisfactory when I got it. It ran fine, but shook itself
to death above 15mph. All drivetrain components were suspect, as was the suspension.
One major project each winter got me to a happy place in about 3 years. It was still a
running, driving machine in the meantime. It took a while, but diligence pushed it to be
a place I wanted it. Today it is a reliable, powerful, and pretty fast old hunk of junk,
with a top speed of 50. It gets mothballed during the winter months, anyway. The perfect
time to do big teardowns. Small projects are fun during the driving season.

Posted: **Thu Aug 31, 2023 12:25 am**

I bought a car that ran. First tour I took it on the engine seized. Total engine rebuild with a SCAT crank, so I paid for the car twice.

Bought a speedster in the mean time from a guy that I knew was a good deal.

Now I have 2 good cars.

Posted: **Thu Aug 31, 2023 12:32 am**

Hi Robert,
I learned long ago that most people you buy a car from either don't know, don't remember or don't care and will tell you anything you want to
hear as long as they sell the car. I know there are exceptions but I rarely meet them. I have only restored one in the last 30 years ( only because
it was for my grandaughter & she worked her a$$ off helping ) I have found buying the components, rebiulding them & assembling the car from
those is the best way to do it then when you get finished you know what you have & how to fix it when it when it breaks. If you are not sure of
what you are buying take someone with you that is. And that is no garranty you will get a good one IMHO.
Craig.

Posted: **Thu Aug 31, 2023 6:59 am**

Yeah I’ll admit there’s a big difference between walking in cold and knowing. I mentioned 3 T’s I’ve owned and driven over about a 20 or so year period. During that time I pulled 1 head and changed 1 set of tires and normal maintenance. Extensive checking resulted in: never having to do a set of bands. Never dropping an inspection pan. Never doing a rear end rebuild. Never doing a valve job. I’m capable of all these jobs. I should be after a life as a mechanic but knowing made it so I never had to. 2 sellers got pretty pissed at all the checking I did on the cars, (waddaya think it’s new?), but telling them, in both cases I’d walk if they stopped me shut them up quick. I take no chances and it paid off.

Posted: **Thu Aug 31, 2023 9:33 am**

I’ve seen adds for old cars and of course newer too. Lots of sellers say it “runs and drives” .
So what does that mean? Same goes for Model T’s that were parked in a barn 50 years ago.

If you’re looking for a good running and driving Model T, a car that isn’t real cheap is what you will have to buy.

Make sure it has a clear title, ask about any work that was done on it, and who did it if possible.

Remember. You have to pay to play. That’s the way it is with any classic, antique vehicle.
The guy with a nice 57 Chevy 2 Dr Hardtop is driving a $30.000 and up car.

Posted: **Thu Aug 31, 2023 10:38 am**

Just in case we forgot.
Craig.

Posted: **Thu Aug 31, 2023 10:56 am**

When I buy a car I examine it closely and if anything seems sketchy I assume it will need to be repaired or replaced and adjust what I am willing to pay accordingly. Cars sold as "barn finds", "ran when parked" and other obtuse descriptions suggest that everything will need to be done in my experience. I have been pleasantly surprised occasionally by the car that only wound up needing minimal maintenance but for the most part they needed major work. If you can do the work yourself the purchase price adjustment can often be nominal but if you will have to pay to have the work done it probably makes sense to walk away.

Posted: **Thu Aug 31, 2023 11:36 am**

Paperman wrote: ↑
Wed Aug 30, 2023 7:17 pm
Been wanting a T for 20 years. Have an A but wanted a T. Bought on local, 1927 Tudor, “Dad drove it in the barn, I watched him”. Yep it likely did on about 1960. Seems the 10 year old boy didn’t know or hear the rod knock that made them park it. Didn’t hear it when I cranked it by hand before buying.

Pull pan to look it over and find loose rod bolts and find babbit all but gone. Pull it apart, buy a pile of parts and start the complete rebuilt. Full stop right now because of no camshafts available. Not putting a used up cam in an otherwise brand new engine.

Next I buy a 25, again told it ram and drove. Was a farm car. Get it home and running. Runs OK but has some issues. Cracked head, blow head gasket, band trans bands and a host of chassis issues. But it drives for the most part. It was just a frame, cowl and windshield. Was going to build a truck bed and just make a fun driver.

Along comes car 3. Nice 26, original car. No engine. Good body and lots of “parts” came with it. Figured I’d take engine from the 25, slide it into the 26 for a decent driver while I wait for a can for the 27.

Pull engine and figured might as well look it over inside while it’s out. I find debris. Seems magnet keeper came off, hit mag coil and wadded up the oil funnel. So I start looking and making a list of every thing the “running” engine needs. The List is long and would be much shorter if I listed what was good.

Buy engine 3, a 26 that was pulled because car was hit decades ago. Old boy said she was in good shape. HAHA.

Maybe in 1970 it was, before the mice moved in. Another, order everything but a block, job it seems.

I’m thankful that I can do all the machine and dab work myself (outside of grinding the crankshaft) but man, it’s getting old ordered $300-400 worth of stuff weekly and not getting ahead of it. I know in the end I’ll have 3 cool rides but this isn’t what I expected. I was hoping to get one running and enjoy it before the next step, seems Im at rebuild it all top to bottom, then sit on it all winter.
I’m just bummed and venting a bit, sorry guys. It just seems there isn’t a middle ground for a guy to get into a car. It’s either a $3,000 car that needs $10k invested or buy a $10k car that needs another $3k invested.

Again, sorry for the rambling.

You're just not looking long and far enough. I've got a 26 fordor with a professionally rebuilt engine, transmission, and Ruckstell rear axle that I'd let go for $10,000.00, and I'll lose $3 to 4 thousand dollars in the process. Ask anyone on the Forum and they'll tell you that most of the time you can buy a restored car, cheaper than you can buy a barn find unrestored car of the same body style, and then restore it, even if you can do most of the work, yourself (which most people can't).

Posted: **Thu Aug 31, 2023 12:39 pm**

Robert, Quality reground cams are available from Chaffins. Their 270 grind is an excellent running cam. I'm running two of them.
Give Dave a call.951-226-7331.

Posted: **Thu Aug 31, 2023 1:39 pm**

Paperman wrote: ↑
Wed Aug 30, 2023 7:17 pm
Been wanting a T for 20 years. Have an A but wanted a T. Bought on local, 1927 Tudor, “Dad drove it in the barn, I watched him”. Yep it likely did on about 1960. Seems the 10 year old boy didn’t know or hear the rod knock that made them park it. Didn’t hear it when I cranked it by hand before buying.

Pull pan to look it over and find loose rod bolts and find babbit all but gone. Pull it apart, buy a pile of parts and start the complete rebuilt. Full stop right now because of no camshafts available. Not putting a used up cam in an otherwise brand new engine.

Next I buy a 25, again told it ram and drove. Was a farm car. Get it home and running. Runs OK but has some issues. Cracked head, blow head gasket, band trans bands and a host of chassis issues. But it drives for the most part. It was just a frame, cowl and windshield. Was going to build a truck bed and just make a fun driver.

Along comes car 3. Nice 26, original car. No engine. Good body and lots of “parts” came with it. Figured I’d take engine from the 25, slide it into the 26 for a decent driver while I wait for a can for the 27.

Pull engine and figured might as well look it over inside while it’s out. I find debris. Seems magnet keeper came off, hit mag coil and wadded up the oil funnel. So I start looking and making a list of every thing the “running” engine needs. The List is long and would be much shorter if I listed what was good.

Buy engine 3, a 26 that was pulled because car was hit decades ago. Old boy said she was in good shape. HAHA.

Maybe in 1970 it was, before the mice moved in. Another, order everything but a block, job it seems.

I’m thankful that I can do all the machine and dab work myself (outside of grinding the crankshaft) but man, it’s getting old ordered $300-400 worth of stuff weekly and not getting ahead of it. I know in the end I’ll have 3 cool rides but this isn’t what I expected. I was hoping to get one running and enjoy it before the next step, seems Im at rebuild it all top to bottom, then sit on it all winter.

I’m just bummed and venting a bit, sorry guys. It just seems there isn’t a middle ground for a guy to get into a car. It’s either a $3,000 car that needs $10k invested or buy a $10k car that needs another $3k invested.

Again, sorry for the rambling.

I would pretty much agree with the lines about values. That's just the way it is. I have more then $10,000 invested in my T and it still needs a couple of (hopefully) minor things. It runs well and looks great from about 10 feet. I'm not going to give it away.

Posted: **Fri Sep 01, 2023 6:52 pm**

Thank you all for taking time to reply. Ordered another round of parts for this “running” engine. They are supposed to be here tomorrow. A few things are new valves with bigger stems, needed to ream the guides. Pulled the engine completely apart, hot tanked and set it on the mill table. SHIT. Now the block is broken!!!!

Seems someone didn’t have a main bolt installed correctly. I didn’t notice as the crack was likely full of oil sludge. I just walked away for the night, glad I don’t drink.

Posted: **Fri Sep 01, 2023 7:34 pm**

Robert, where in Michigan are you?

Posted: **Fri Sep 01, 2023 10:20 pm**

Ludington, west side right on the lake.

Posted: **Fri Sep 01, 2023 11:12 pm**

That block damage isnt a motor killer. Run it.

Posted: **Sat Sep 02, 2023 7:59 am**

Don’t be discouraged,
I too bought a can of worms & a money pit. When I bought my ‘24 touring, I had some knowledge of the car in respect to the care it received for many years which was no care. Outside of a very good solid body, the rest was junk and needed a full rebuild. Being retired for two years now gave me lots of time to work on my T. I know full well that Ts that supposedly run and drive would cost half of what I have into my “Henry”, but going through my rebuild gives me great peace of mind that I have a car that I feel safe in and safe for being on the road. You will feel the same way my friend. You will have great vehicles in the end that you will be proud of !!!

Posted: **Sat Sep 02, 2023 8:52 am**

Somebody has to fix the basket cases. If everyone buys only good ones where dose that leave the hobby? We should save as many as possible and learn the inner workings of this machine for future generations. A money pit ends up being worth more in knowledge and experience than some monetary number. We are the pioneers of the century old automobile.
Bryant

Posted: **Sat Sep 02, 2023 2:15 pm**

If it's any consolation, I bought my 21 Touring from a guy that evidently kept it running on an absolute shoestring. It had sat for a while and had three stuck valves, a stuck water pump, shredded generator, shredded starter, burnt wiring and a failed head gasket. The body was death to death, the roof was a mess, the upholstery was... fine, I guess. I unstuck and reground the valves and junked the water pump, generator and starter. The rest I left as is. It has a gnarly Grapes of Wrath vibe and I love it.

The first five outings I made in it left me walking home, but eventually we came to understand each other and now I think this shabby bag of bolts might be the most fun car I own (I have six classics in total).

My point is, just get one running. It doesn't matter if a non-critical part of the block is cracked or you sling in an old cam. Perfection is the enemy of progress. All this stuff is super easy to fix anyway - get one of those cars moving under its own steam and enjoy it (maybe just don't go too far from your house at first).

Posted: **Sun Sep 03, 2023 10:28 am**

" Perfection is the enemy of progress."

Churchill eh?

MTFCA Forum

Feeling pretty beat down, I just want to try and enjoy the car!!

Feeling pretty beat down, I just want to try and enjoy the car!!

Re: Feeling pretty beat down, I just want to try and enjoy the car!!

Re: Feeling pretty beat down, I just want to try and enjoy the car!!

Re: Feeling pretty beat down, I just want to try and enjoy the car!!

Re: Feeling pretty beat down, I just want to try and enjoy the car!!

Re: Feeling pretty beat down, I just want to try and enjoy the car!!

Re: Feeling pretty beat down, I just want to try and enjoy the car!!

Re: Feeling pretty beat down, I just want to try and enjoy the car!!

Re: Feeling pretty beat down, I just want to try and enjoy the car!!

Re: Feeling pretty beat down, I just want to try and enjoy the car!!

Re: Feeling pretty beat down, I just want to try and enjoy the car!!

Re: Feeling pretty beat down, I just want to try and enjoy the car!!

Re: Feeling pretty beat down, I just want to try and enjoy the car!!

Re: Feeling pretty beat down, I just want to try and enjoy the car!!

Re: Feeling pretty beat down, I just want to try and enjoy the car!!

Re: Feeling pretty beat down, I just want to try and enjoy the car!!

Re: Feeling pretty beat down, I just want to try and enjoy the car!!

Re: Feeling pretty beat down, I just want to try and enjoy the car!!

Re: Feeling pretty beat down, I just want to try and enjoy the car!!

Re: Feeling pretty beat down, I just want to try and enjoy the car!!

Re: Feeling pretty beat down, I just want to try and enjoy the car!!

Re: Feeling pretty beat down, I just want to try and enjoy the car!!

Re: Feeling pretty beat down, I just want to try and enjoy the car!!

Re: Feeling pretty beat down, I just want to try and enjoy the car!!

Re: Feeling pretty beat down, I just want to try and enjoy the car!!

Re: Feeling pretty beat down, I just want to try and enjoy the car!!

Re: Feeling pretty beat down, I just want to try and enjoy the car!!

Re: Feeling pretty beat down, I just want to try and enjoy the car!!