MTFCA Forum

Was driving home from the
local morning cars n coffee
yesterday, when I had two incidents of drivers trying to kill me.
I was driving at 35-40 mph on 45mph two lane road. I slowed and gave the left turn signal to turn into a 30mph sidestreet. Began to initiate the turn when I had a pickup truck pass me on the left over double yellows, in the oncoming lane, at 60mph+.
I almost turned into the path of the truck. Disaster averted.
I continued straight without turning,only to be passed on both sides by 20+ harley riders. 2/3 of them passing on solid yellows, the other 1/3 passed me in the breakdown lane. People drive crazy here.
Be careful out there!
Total disregard for safety.

Professor Fate wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 18, 2023 9:53 pm

Was driving home from the
local morning cars n coffee
yesterday, when I had two incidents of drivers trying to kill me.
I was driving at 35-40 mph on 45mph two lane road. I slowed and gave the left turn signal to turn into a 30mph sidestreet. Began to initiate the turn when I had a pickup truck pass me on the left over double yellows, in the oncoming lane, at 60mph+.
I almost turned into the path of the truck. Disaster averted.
I continued straight without turning,only to be passed on both sides by 20+ harley riders. 2/3 of them passing on solid yellows, the other 1/3 passed me in the breakdown lane. People drive crazy here.
Be careful out there!

It's crazy driving by people you encountered that put Steve Jeff in the hospital right now. I told one of his friends (and Mine), "it just goes to prove that a driver can predict his actions, but he can't predict the actions of other drivers".

Yes, unfortunately that is how some people drive. I'm glad you came through safely. You should expect the unexpected. The best defensive is to avoid putting yourself in the position where your safety is dependent on the actions of a stranger. Choose your route carefully, if you must use busy roads, stay in the far right lane and avoid making left turns. Good advice in any vehicle, but in a T on a busy road, you are as safe as you would be on a bicycle.

"Safe as a bicycle " is it!

I don't think I'll try to turn left at that intersection ever again.....

Three right turns equals one left.

I also live in Massachusetts and I’m a public transit bus driver. It’s not just you or your imagination it’s real and a problem!! Ever since people are allowed to smoke dope……… good thing is I live in the Berkshires and can easily enjoy the back roads and mostly see no one, and drive into Vermont and New York easily and be away from fast roads.

I just ran 800 miles this week, after being in FL so long boy is it nice to be in flyover states where the smaller roads are much more vacant and drivers more considerate.

Happens on a daily basis for me now for the last 3 years. Getting worse...they even pass on blind hills, double solid yellow lines and all. Coupla more years of this crap and I'm gonna get out of the hobby. I'll "move up" to a 64-65 Mustang, one of my all time favorite cars also. I prefer living over just enjoying driving.

There are no safe cars. I'd move to a safer location. The alternative would be to buy a 4-wheel padded cell or a 6 wheel battle tank. Old Mustangs are nice cars, but they are not very crashworthy.

A lot of Model T owners say, what is the good of owning a T if you don’t drive it. In a way, I agree, but many years ago, I gave up driving my T on the open road in favor of driving on the quiet streets of my neighborhood, because it became just too dangerous. It may have been safer from the 1960’s to the 1990’s when there were more mature drivers and less distractions built in to the cars, but now you are taking your life in your hands to take your T out on the open roads and attempt to drive among and compete with modern 80 mph cars with all their built in distractions. CD players, radios, cellphones, televisions, GPS direction finders, reading, misbehaving kids, eating and excessive speeding are not compatible with safe driving and unfortunately, todays drivers, utilize a combination of them while driving and when after looking down for a moment to adjust the radio, a slow moving Model T suddenly appears in front of them, if they are going 80mph, at 73.3 feet per second, they don’t have time to think, much less take evasive action when going 50 mph faster than the T (if the Model T is stopped or crossing an intersection, a driver going 80 mph is approaching at 117.3 feet per second). Since the average reaction time of the human brain is 1.5 to 2 seconds, multiply the distance by 1.5 to 2 seconds. Think about it. If something like that can happen to a super experienced Model T driver like Steve Jelf, it certainly can happen to any of us.

Sensible, experienced and ultra responsible Model T driving is no longer good enough. Nowadays, in Texas, there are tens of thousands drivers that don’t know how to read road signs in English and don’t know hand signals or the meaning of single or double yellow lines. I live rurally and we have annual Model T tours in different small towns that usually draw between 80-100 Model Ts. The last 2 years these small towns were only 75-80 miles away with easy back roads available. I trailered. I feel much safer touring in numbers than singularly. And I cannot imagine driving a T across 5 States to the OCF but Steve is in my daily thoughts and prayers.

I find that many drivers consider us to be a nusance. Especially when a group is traveling together. Some like to get to our left when we are in a short slow moving lane to allow others to pass and then they slow down to take our picture causing us to have to stop at the end of the lane which then causes us to be going even slower when we are able to start out again. Another one is that many younger people think our outstreched arm when making a left turn is for waving them to pass us.
Anyway, I'm glad you were not hurt.
Norm

David Mazza wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 19, 2023 6:56 am

I also live in Massachusetts and I’m a public transit bus driver. It’s not just you or your imagination it’s real and a problem!! Ever since people are allowed to smoke dope……… good thing is I live in the Berkshires and can easily enjoy the back roads and mostly see no one, and drive into Vermont and New York easily and be away from fast roads.

I lived in Massachusetts for most of my life; if you think Massachusetts drivers are bad, come to Florida. I think many drivers here get their licenses from vending machines.

There are many reasons to avoid left hand turns. They are generally considered unsafe and wasteful on right-hand driving roads, such as those in the US. Its not just as intersections, can even be exiting a parking lot or your driveway.

UPS says Left turns are seen as inefficient, because they leave trucks sitting in traffic longer. They say minimizing left turns has helped it save more than 10 million gallons of fuel over the past decade.
--
“Left-turning traffic typically has to turn against a flow of oncoming vehicles,” explains Tom Vanderbilt, author of the book “Traffic: Why we drive the way we do.”

“This can not only be dangerous, but makes traffic build up, unless you install a dedicated left-turn ‘phase,’ which is fine but basically adds 30 or 45 seconds to everyone else’s single time,” he said.

A study on crash factors in intersection-related accidents from the US National Highway Traffic Safety Association shows that turning left is one of the leading “critical pre-crash events” (an event that made a collision inevitable), occurring in 22.2 percent of crashes, as opposed to 1.2 percent for right turns. About 61 percent of crashes that occur while turning or crossing an intersection involve left turns, as opposed to just 3.1 percent involving right turns.

Left turns are also three times more likely to kill pedestrians than right ones, according to data collected by New York City’s transportation planners.

Do roundabouts have fewer crashes?
Studies by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety show that roundabouts provide a: 90 percent reduction in fatal crashes; 76 percent reduction in injury crashes; 30 to 40 percent reduction in pedestrian crashes; and 10 percent reduction in bicycle crashes.

Something relatively new the "Diamond Interchange" at Interstate Exits

John must have never been in Oregon where almost every street is one way. If you turn right, or even pass the address you are looking for, you might not ever find it again! Or San Francisco on Market Street which runs on a diagonal. Or around here where there are very few "blocks" The roads are up and down hills and curving
I was once in the "Berkshires". I asked what that name meant? Someone said that is the name of these mountains? Kind of like "Mt Bob" in New York! Some of those "mountains" are about the height of a freeway overpass!
Anyway, to get back to Model T's. Easier to drive with the top down where you can see all around easily. No blind spots that way.
Another problem (not in a T) is the freeway entrance or exit ramps. Some freeway on ramps are to the right and others to the left. So have to change lanes quickly just before turning.
Norm

BMWs are amongst Tesla's, Maseratis, Ferraris, and lead foots.

TRDxB2 wrote: ↑

Tue Sep 19, 2023 11:17 am

Studies by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety show that roundabouts provide a: 90 percent reduction in fatal crashes; 76 percent reduction in injury crashes; 30 to 40 percent reduction in pedestrian crashes; and 10 percent reduction in bicycle crashes.

Without the lights, lanes, maintenance I'm betting there is a study being kept quiet about how much cheaper they are to put in

I am very lucky because I live and work in rural Michigan. The people in a hurry take the main roads and drive like idiots and it keeps the faster traffic off the back roads. My office is a 25 mile round trip from my house and most of it is low traffic 25-45 MPH back roads. I drive my stock 1914 touring car (Except for added lights) and I hardly ever have a car become impatient enough to pass me.
.
Remember, people are not used to old cars on the road and they expect you to be like a new car so I added very bright brake lights and LED turn signals. I know these have saved me many times because people expect cars to have them and use them. I sometimes add hand signals to my actions, but that is just to help educate people so they understand that my arm in that position means the same thing as my blinker.
.

I love the "Motorcycles Are Everywhere" banners and bumpah stickah's. Because Sunday, they literally were!
It was a grou p of weekend v twin people wearing all the latest high priced HD swag that split me. Kind of like the wild hogs wanna be's.
Any disciplined 1% diamond wearing triple patch bike club would have been far more respectful and safe. They would never have done that to any of us. It's the weekend lookie lou's touring around my area because we have awesome roads.
The drivers i share the road with are all on cell phones and the weed. It's the "impaired driver" thats keeping me off a motorcycle.
Our society is changing. Nobody is courteous or friendly anymore.
It's quiet backroads and the safer long way around for me. I'm just glad I live in a flat rural and agricultural pocket that has a much slower pace than the surrounding area.

Be well. Drive safely. Go Steve Jelf!

When driving to work, to do errands, picking up the kids and no telling what people are concentrated on just getting there.
We old car drivers have to remember where we drive to use common sense not to get on roads where people are going and coming at todays speeds and vehicle responses.

A lot of folks don’t really care if you’re driving a cutesy antique car and just want to get where they want to go. And looking up ahead of 10 cars or more to see what’s holding up traffic isn’t good either.

It’s a give and take on both sides but I’ll always find a route where there is less traffic and intersections if possible. And always remember that Model T’s don’t have real brakes.

I commonly avoid left hand turns by, instead of getting in the left hand turn lane, I turn right, make a U-turn and go straight across when the light turns green. If there is no light, I keep going straight, make a U-turn, back track to the intersection and turn right. Jim Patrick.

The Jelf crash and my recent experiences have really refocused my mindset.
Must strive to be safer!

Hope Steve J. is having a good day, and in less pain.

I have hesitated to post anything since Steve Jelf's misfortune, but I too had the same type of wreck that nearly killed me. I still hurt from that wreck 14 years later. Broken ribs, broken femur, embedded glass shards, and brain injury. I was driving a 1931 Model A Roadster and a guy suddenly pulled out in front of me. He told the cops he had been on his phone, glanced up and saw me, but was sure he could beat that old car. Except I was doing nearly 50 mph with no seat belts. That sudden impact haunts me to this day. Car was totaled, and I was pretty close to that myself. My wife won't ride in my Model T's and Model A. In fact, she would prefer I divest myself of them altogether.

So, I still love my Model T's but will drive them only on largely deserted back roads. Driving a stock Model T in modern traffic is something I have decided not to do. Back in the 1980's, I drove my 26 Coupe everywhere when I lived in western Washington. Now I live in South Carolina and only drive it out in the country and I get all kinds of hand gestures, some friendly and some not so much. I have decided my Model T's are relics from another time and deserve NOT to be driven in populated areas. That's my decision. I am restoring a 1912 Roadster and will probably drive it down the country road where I live for a couple of miles, then turn around and go home. I can't imagine taking that brass car on the crazy highway near where I live. Admittedly, my mindset is formed from the traumatic accident with my Model A Roadster. That sort of thing will do it. It's a "downer" to think about what COULD happen.

The last tour I was on is no different than any other tour. All participants are asked to leave room between cars so modern iron can pass. 5 miles from the start 6-7 Model T's are on each others ass. Not even a Model T could get in between this group of cars. They keep this spacing up for miles. Then you wonder why people get mad at antique car drivers.

When you drive an antique car I thought you were out for a leisurely drive. No need to bunch up. I love to say " I do not know when I will get there, but I will get there. Might take me a while. I was driving along looking at the flowers and the trees. I saw some birds, and butterflies, and even a rabbit. Never in a rush".

Pretty much agree with what is being said, but take a look at some of the auto safety films from the 50's and 60's. There were some pretty crap drivers back then too! There are more drivers on the road and too many think they are the only ones that count. Not enough traffic cops to put the fear into them.

This left turn business seems to be a nation wide illness. What drove me off the road were 2 incidents on the same day and oddly just days after completing a stop/turn/tail addition. Pulling out of my development I was stopped at a light in the left turning lane with my new turn signal on. The light changes and just as I start moving a half wit zooms past me on my left over the double line and makes the left turn. Had I cut the wheel to turn myself he’d have cut me in half because he hit the gas hard to get past me. Later that day I had another less scary incident and the two convinced me it was time to stop T street driving. I drove my development for a year or so then it just lost any charm it ever had. Honestly it’s frightening to me that the statement concerning Steve’s accident about being lucky to be thrown out of the car seems true. We’ve all heard it before. I remember years back when we had a run of single car accidents one of which resulted in a death. That was the first time I heard about getting tossed out of the car.

What happens on tours is what happened in our school days in the cruising era of the 50s 60’s and 70’s.
We were out and about and running and gunning trying to keep up with the guy who had his car souped up a bit.

I remember having some close calls and our cars could get up and go pretty good.

Not so with a Model T that’s has a higher compression head or etc.
When getting on a tour some of us still try to be the top dog or top gun. Then the cars start bunching up and leave the slower cars behind. And out the window goes the idea of going out for a fun drive and enjoying the scenery.

Driving a modern car or semi will get you hurt to. Locally today a lady decided she wanted to "leave" earth and drove head on into a tanker truck, both doing about 60 mph, killed her and the truck driver had to be cut out of the rig and is in bad shape.
I saw where smoking dope was mentioned above. I can't imagine what it is like driving in states where that stuff is legal.it is difficult enough to be safe where it is not.
Just on the way to breakfast this morning.I pulled out on the main road,a 45 mph zone.Was clear, I no more than got straight in the road and there was a crew cab work truck right on my bumper. Then in front me, was some idiot in a 4x4 weaving in and out of his lane wanting to pass the truck in front of him. Missed a Hertz renta truck by about 5 feet at 40+ mph. I had already backed way off after watching him weave,giving myself room to react.

Not so much the stoned ones, it the sober or drunk ones you got to look out for. LOL

Any pastime is dangerous when it depends on trusting the qualifications of others.

Here in Massachusetts, seems like there's a weed shop on every corner. If you drive with your window open, you are guaranteed to smell pot from a car ahead of you....
Impaired people, distracted people, and aggressive people hurt and forever change the lives of the innocent, hard working, average joe every day.

Wow,how can anyone pass a drug test in Mass, if the smell is everywhere?

Folks we ain’t seen nothin yet. Say it ain’t so Joe. But it is.

Although I left Massachusetts seven years ago, I do go back for the occasional visit. I have not noticed that Massachusetts drivers are any worse then the national average. Florida however, is.

If memory serves they did a poll and 90% of drivers believe they are above average drivers.

Speaking to that 90% of great drivers, it's worth considering for us Model T pilots who are growing ever younger, that over 50, our eye-sight, hearing and reflexes are not what they used to be, so an extra layer of preventive caution is definitely warranted ! I know perhaps we are not as good as we were once, but we're certainly as good as we ever were . . . once ?

I don't know if it is pretty much the same everywhere these days, but in Idaho, a drivers' license is no more than another tax. There is no test for renewal, other than a cursory, minimalist vision check, and you can be half-blind and still pass.

I realize that regulation of any extent does no good to eliminate or curtail the alarming number of drivers who are neither licensed, nor insured as the law requires, but it would really help if there were standards and they were enforced. As kids eager to get behind the wheel sixty years ago, the fact that driving is a privilege, not a right was repetitively driven home to us in "Drivers' Ed." classes.

As long as I'm editorializing, I am appalled at how the latest generation of vehicles are essentially I-pads on wheels. All the simple functions of interior control and gauges that used to be simple and easily found are now controlled by what amounts to a video game. Tiny switches and touch screens that are nigh illegible cannot help but be a massive distraction even for conscientious drivers.

We may have to resort to Flubber powered Model Ts in the near future. might be a little safer at a low altitude. I also cannot figure out with all the gadgets and things to do in new automobiles why there turn signals never seem to work.
Bryant

My modern car is a 2011 that I have owned for about 3 years now. I still don't know how to change the radio station while I'm driving it so my wife does it for me.

That’s precisely why I stopped riding a motorcycle. Not much safer in a T but….