MTFCA Forum

So, 2 questions. I ordered a needle and seat kit from Gaslight, 6200 NHV. I want to replace the "ball valve" to see if it makes it so I can adjust the fuel mixture better. It says to specify NH or vaporizer. The seat does not fit my body, smaller and shorter threads and it protrudes way too far into the bowl anyway. Am I missing something or did I mistakenly get a vaporizer needle and seat?

Second question. I also ordered a new inner tube and will put everyth8ing back together tomorrow. It shouldn't be a big deal since it's a split rim, but I see people talking about warming the tire up to make it more pliable. So, I have a powder coat oven that will easily fit a tire, anyone ever warmed a tire in an oven? Thoughts on temp? The tire wasn't hard to get off, is it worth warming it up to put back on? Any advantage when it comes to the tire seating?

If it came off easily, I wouldn't worry about warming it other than maybe putting it out in the sun for an hour. I would not warm a tire over 140 F under any circumstance. A clean, smooth rim and tire lube will make mounting easier.

I just laid it down and stepped on it around the rim to break it loose, first time breaking down a T tire but I didn't think it was too bad. It's not going to be very warm here in the AM, but I'll lay it out on asphalt. To stay at 140 or below in the oven would mean just putting it in and keeping an eye on it, I think about 200 is as low as it will go.

Not sure why they would ask to specify, the needle and seats should be the same, Langs only shows one. RE not seating far enough down, make sure the old gasket(s) have been removed. They can stick up a little.
Your carb does have an NH tag on it?
https://www.modeltford.com/item/6212.aspx

21" tyres have wire in the beads like all modern tyres. Warming them up is not really necessary. The warming does help with clincher tyres. These need to be stretched over the fixed rim, ans making them softer with heat makes them easier to stretch.

Allan from down under.

Keith,
I have changed 21" tires in the winter in a poorly heated shop with no problem, preheating is not needed. Here is a link to an older post on how to mount 21" tires on split rims.

https://www.mtfca.com/phpBB3/viewtopic. ... 94#p236803

Mark Gregush wrote: ↑

Fri Sep 22, 2023 10:21 pm

Not sure why they would ask to specify, the needle and seats should be the same, Langs only shows one. RE not seating far enough down, make sure the old gasket(s) have been removed. They can stick up a little.
Your carb does have an NH tag on it?
https://www.modeltford.com/item/6212.aspx

That is the needle and seat I got. The original is threaded all the way, bigger and coarser. The "ball" seat is threaded all the way to a short hex section where the ball is.

Post some photos.

As for being able to adjust the mixture better, the float valve has little to do with that. It only allows so much gas to enter into the bowl. The mixture is controlled by the needle valve. The ball valve, (grose jet), that you're replacing can be troublesome in allowing enough gas into the bowl. That will effect mixture due to not enough gas comimg through to the needle valve. So, in that sense, a proper valve may help you.

The 2 terms, "needle valve" and "float valve" seem to sometimes get used interchangeably. Needle valve controls mixture. Float valve maintains fuel level in the bowl.

Jerry VanOoteghem wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 23, 2023 8:23 am

Post some photos.

As for being able to adjust the mixture better, the float valve has little to do with that. It only allows so much gas to enter into the bowl. The mixture is controlled by the needle valve. The ball valve, (grose jet), that you're replacing can be troublesome in allowing enough gas into the bowl. That will affect mixture due to not enough gas coming through to the needle valve. So, in that sense, a proper valve may help you.

The 2 terms, "needle valve" and "float valve" seem to sometimes get used interchangeably. Needle valve controls mixture. Float valve maintains fuel level in the bowl.

yes, the needle does need replaced too, the float valve is what I'm working on now. Actually, I just got done making the valve stem hole a little bigger so next time I can get the stem out! Inconsistent fuel supply was my first objective, fixing that, then go to the needle valve next. I put it back together last night, the grose jet only protrudes into the bowl the thickness of the hex where the ball is. The Viton needle and seat won't thread in from the bowl side, the opening where the Grose jet is, is too large dia. for the viton, plus it would protrude well down into the bowl. Is teh viton supposed to be mounted in a different way? No instructions came with it.

Mark Gregush wrote: ↑

Fri Sep 22, 2023 10:21 pm

Not sure why they would ask to specify, the needle and seats should be the same, Langs only shows one. RE not seating far enough down, make sure the old gasket(s) have been removed. They can stick up a little.
Your carb does have an NH tag on it?
https://www.modeltford.com/item/6212.aspx

It does have NH tag.

The NH, Ford, Simmons, NH vaporizer, Western Auto should all use the same float valve. Should not matter if ball or needle type. I think at this point you need to add some photos of what you are working with. The Holly G and Kingston used different sized float valve housings/needles, with different OD and thread count. Now got to wonder if what you got was miss packaged.

Re your tire question;
After the rim is collapsed and old tire is removed, shouldn't be a need to heat the new tires to install. Really the only time warming tires comes into play would be for clinchers.
If you are trying to install the tires without collapsing the rim, that is not how it is done.
Collapse the rim, remove the old tire/tube/flap. Install the new tire/tube/flap, expand the rim, latch add air, done.

"The Viton needle and seat won't thread in from the bowl side, the opening where the Grose jet is, is too large dia. for the viton,"

Sounds likesome one has drilled out the carb body to fit a ball valve from some other carb. I have a straight thru NH that someone did that to. Now I know why I got it so cheap. You may nee to find another carb.

Possibly some one adapted a gross jet designed for a different carb.??
Post pictures. The problem will be more obvious.

speedytinc wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 23, 2023 11:52 am

Possibly some one adapted a gross jet designed for a different carb.??
Post pictures. The problem will be more obvious.

jsaylor wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 23, 2023 11:51 am

"The Viton needle and seat won't thread in from the bowl side, the opening where the Grose jet is, is too large dia. for the viton,"

Sounds likesome one has drilled out the carb body to fit a ball valve from some other carb. I have a straight thru NH that someone did that to. Now I know why I got it so cheap. You may nee to find another carb.

Good point!

For the split rim, you need a rim spreader tool to do it properly. If you do not have one, you need to find someone nearby who will loan you one. It is almost impossible to remove or install a tire and tube on a split rim without that tool. The tool is like a jack with hooks on each end which when cranked in one direction will pull the ends of the rim overlapping about 2 inches. Then the tire and tube and if you have a flap you put the tube in first with just a little air to keep it from wadding up. Then install the flap between the beads on the inside. Then put the whole assembly onto the rim and the stem through the hole. Be careful to keep the stem straight. If it is not straight you need to slide the tire a little to bring the base of the valve opposite the hole. Then reverse the rim spreader and crank the opposite way to spread the ends of the rim together and connect the fastener. Different brand rims have a different fastener. Some just snap into place, others are turned on a swiver and others have a bolt to hold in place. Next pump the tire to full pressure and then let all the air out. Do this a time or two and bounce the tire around to get the tube to stretch out to normal size in the rim and then set the pressure around 32 psi. When you install the tire on the wheel, crank down the lug bolts alternating diagonally and while doing so, the back side of the rim should just touch the back side of the wheel. Check to be sure the wheel runs true.
As for the needle valve, I would need a picture of what you are trying to do. The seat screws in first with a washer between it and the carburetor body. Then the needle goes into the hole in the seat. The float level is then adjusted by bending the tab which pushes onto the needle. I like to order from Lang's, Syder's or Chaffin's. Those companies have an inventory of parts which are accurate to fit Model T's.
Norm
Norm

The best valve for a NH is the "full flow" valve from Scott Conger. However, if your carb has been modified to fit a valve from another carb you are in uncharted territory. Good luck!

Thanks for all the comments, and direct mail from Scott.

The tire is back together and on the car, it was pretty simple. With what I've read on here in the past I thought it may be tricky, I know better now.

The valve body has apparently been cobbled. I don't have pictures because I put it back together with the Grose valve last night and drove it today after fixing the tire. It looks like the valve for a G, thanks for sending the picture Scott, only it is long like the Viton and doesn't have a flange and gasket like the G. The threads do not fit well and had Teflon tape on them, I thought they have been cross threaded at one time and the tops flattened, but apparently the body was threaded with a die, then somehow the passage was tapped, just good enough to hold the body in place.

I have another NH on a TT I need to get working on, I guess I'm pulling it off to see how it looks!

Thanks for the up date.