MTFCA Forum

Just pulled the head for the first time, does this look bad?

definitely carbon for sure, mine looked similar. I am sure others can provide more detail. Check those valves, they look like 2 piece valves to me, get those out or you will have bigger problems like the valve head breaking off and going into your cylinder and causing all kinds of damage. 1 piece modern valves are not that expensive for a set. since the head if off I would recommend putting new valves in.

Tim

Looks like the head gasket is not sealing very well. Could be the top of the block or the head is not quite flat, or more likely, the head was not torqued down completely. This can happen even when using a torque wrench if one or more bolts bottom out. The wrench will read the proper torque, but it is measuring the torque against the bolt bottoming out instead of the bolt against the head. I know this from experience with head gasket problems until I found out the cause. When you have the head off, place it on top of the engine and run the bolts down. They should go down all the way to the head. If one or more is too long, grind off a bit till it will go all the way down. then make all the bolts the same length so that they can be used in any location. I should also say, before you do any grinding, run a bottoming tap down each hole in the block and blow out any carbon or dirt from the holes. Then do the above test before you install the new gasket.
Norm

Thanks for the advice! Where is the least expensive place to get valves? Langs has them for 9 dollars apiece.

Also, there is some scoring on the cylinder wall. Is that a problem?

Jonah D'Avella wrote: ↑

Sun Oct 08, 2023 8:18 am

Also, there is some scoring on the cylinder wall. Is that a problem?

Show some good pictures of the scoring. Not enough lighting the pictures above.

Only one I have now, will get some more when I get home.

Jonah, Norman & others gave some good advice but before I’d tighten any head bolts I’d use that bottom tap to clean those holes out. Be aware that to Normans point some bolts may be too long and there is a possibility you could torque them so much you’ll get into the water jacket if they are. You’ve got a lot of residue in your jacket wouldn’t hurt to clean that up & again once assembled. Do clean up you steam holes in the block & head. I use a drill bit to clean them. You may need a new head gasket but you might get by using your old one if not damaged. I use copper coat or something similar on the gasket prior to installing. One more note, those are 2 piece valves an as stated can be bad mojo. You need to know doing that is not just a drop in & go. I don’t know how mechanical you are but in case you’re new to this adventure it is one that takes time and skills to do it right. Done correctly it will improve one part of your engine performance. Best of luck, John

Certainly run a tap down the threads to clean out any residue which may stop the bolt going right down. As a check, before finally fitting the head, put it on the block without the head gasket. If they wind right down, you have clearance at the bottom. I do this when fitting longer bolts and a Z head. These need to be checked.

Allan from down under.

Looks like it needs valve seats installed. Install the modern valves . That’s all I install in engines I do.
Too many valves dropped cause of the repro valve cups and pins.

What do you mean by valve seats?

Jonah

The valve when engine is worn, wears out the rim of the block opening, causing the valve head to sink flush or below the block, compromising the sealing effect a proper narrow seat allows. The valve head should rest above the block, ‘seats’ are new rims installed in the openings. A machine shop installs them.


Older un-restored engine, but was low miles T, as the two-piece (iron head-steel stem) valves are still standing above the block, so the valve seats aren't worn down. This engine is a candidate for new valves and just perhaps a valve grind or seat cutting to renew the valve holes in the iron block. Perhaps all to the seats are good. But if the valves are slap down in the block, new seats are required.

thankfully the valves sick out, and look good, I plan to lap them though. How does the scoring on the cylinder wall look?

Jonah D'Avella wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 12, 2023 11:36 am

thankfully the valves sick out, and look good, I plan to lap them though. How does the scoring on the cylinder wall look?

Jonah,

I'm not seeing scoring as much as I'm seeing rust pitting. It does not look great... or even good. That being said, it will run, (and I suppose it has been running like that already). Model T's are very forgiving... Unless you're up for a full engine rebuild just use it that way. There's no quicky way to deal with that.

If replacing those valves is just not going to happen for you right now, then I suppose lapping them may help some. Still, I would not be a bit surprised if you find that at least a few of the valves will be burnt and that the seats will be rust pitted. Lapping will not fix either situation. If, by chance, lapping does work, at least do yourself the favor of inspecting the valve stems to see if any are reduced in diameter by corrosion. The area of concern is just below the valve head. That's where they commonly break off. Please replace any that are reduced in diameter, even if you don't replace them all.

BTW, if you think buying 8 new valves is expensive, wait until a valve head comes off and destroys a piston, cylinder head, and maybe the block itself.

Did you run the engine befoe you pulled the head?

Why did you remove the head??
Did you sense some performance issues?
I see a fairly untouched original motor with worn seats, 2 piece valves & iron pistons.

What do you expect from your T? Do you plan on an occasional run to the ice cream parlor or are you going to tour with it?
Do you want to experience what it was like to drive an old T in the 30's?

The answer to that decides how far you go on repair or do a quality rebuild.
I tour my T's. I would do a top notch rebuild including a full balance. But thats me.

speedytinc wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 12, 2023 12:10 pm

I would do a top notch rebuild including a full balance. But that's me.

I believe that Jonah is a young guy that may not yet have the resources to do just that.

Jerry VanOoteghem wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 12, 2023 3:05 pm

speedytinc wrote: ↑

Thu Oct 12, 2023 12:10 pm

I would do a top notch rebuild including a full balance. But that's me.

I believe that Jonah is a young guy that may not yet have the resources to do just that.

That would be a factor in my advice.
Jerry O, Your advice is good.
Get it running & enjoy within its limited capacity.
Was it running fair or adequately before pulling the head?

It was running fantasticly with excellent compression before. I don't plan to put more than 1 or 2 hundred miles on it a year. And yes, I don't have the time or resources to rebuild it at this time. Also, does anyone have a set of used acceptable newer style valves they would sell? I'll put an add in the classifieds as soon as I can.

If you find a used set of “newer valves “ most likely they will need to be ground. IE the faces ground on a valve machine. Do you have one?

Also you will need to grind the seats too. Just giving you a heads up.