MTFCA Forum

Should I use the 600 wt tar-like gear oil for an aux trans or will 140 wt be ok? Is it best to start the car in gear or can I get to high or low after it's running? Helps having a true neutral starting a cold car in cold weather, don't have to get the jack out

I can't answer about the oil for an aux. trans as I don't have one, but I will say you sure's heck don't want to start the car IN GEAR unless you're prepared to have it take off on you and possibly hit something or someone!! Always start it with the hand lever "pulled back" (with Rockies it will only go as far as verticle) to keep the rear brakes "locked".

You should be able to step on the brake pedal after you start the engine to put it in gear I would think.

If the modern Layne Warford, the 85/140 would be correct. If the older type I can't answer. As to shifting, if you have good adjustment between the Ford and accessory brake then you can do as greenacres36 said. when going down the road, it is possible to shift without "clutching" if you take the load off the drive train. Occasionally this isn't possible and a slight press of the clutch pedal helps.

Use the modern gear oil like John says. I always start with the Warford in neutral and then using the brake pedal to shift it into gear. Shifting the Warford does not require clutching but only allowing for a syncing of the gears depending weather up or down shifting. Drive often or you'll need a bit of a refresher course. I used to worry a lot about grinding the gears but after many years driving I can tell you those gears are tuff, tuff, tuff!

It's an original box with fresh new bearings, yes Gene those gears are tuff!
Guess oil weight probably doesn't matter much.

My experience is only my experience, but I found thicker lubes (I use 600W steam cylinder oil) made my Warfords and Muncies much easier to shift and the heavier body oil muffled most of the gear noise.

Dan Haynes wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 31, 2023 8:34 am

My experience is only my experience, but I found thicker lubes (I use 600W steam cylinder oil) made my Warfords and Muncies much easier to shift and the heavier body oil muffled most of the gear noise.

Everyone seems to have their "special recommendations" on what to run, but seriously, read what Ford said to run... that 600W (which is 275 W gear oil, translated to modern times) just seeems to work.

I had all kinds of stuff in my Ruckstell, and it popped and snarreled and wanted to jump out of gear... then I put 600W in it and it settled right down. I won't say the engineers who designed the thing knew what they were talking about, but... yeah.

So you run what you think you need to, but I'll stick to what HF's engineers and Hall-Scott's engineers said to run, which was what FMC said to run,

Hi Jeff,
Having a real neutral makes starting much easier, as far as putting the Warford in gear at a stop I find that clutch disengaged and a little
reverse pedal works great for stopping the output shaft to get it in gear. I find shifting with or without the clutch that the gear to engine
speed match is easiest on the deceleration of engine speed apposed to acceleration. As far as oil YellowTRacer rums 600W & I don't know
anyone that runs as hard or as many miles as He does. I run 85/140 as little leaks & noise don't much bother me, it's when the leak or noise
suddenly goes' away that gets my attention. If you are just putting the Warford in I would suggest a 10 tooth pinion unless you have a real
strong engine or light car.
Craig.

I have been using Amsoil Synthetic R&O, AW gear and bearing oil ISO-680 (RPC) for several years now. The Warford runs quieter with it. I won't use synthetics in the engine but have it in several gear boxes and differentials.
Rich

Craig is correct. I use 600, and why? Years ago, in talking to the knowledgeable guys at Western Petroleum Oil, our local supplier, they said that the modern 85/140 eats into your bronze bushings. I had used 140 for years, and over the years I had noticed a little bronze in the oil that had been in service for awhile but tried to ignore it. After hearing that from Western, I ordered a 5 gallon tub of 600 steam cylinder oil from them and now for years, no more sights of bronze. And I noticed no change in initially getting it in gear or down the road shifting.

Ed aka #4 aka YellowTRacer

TWrenn wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 30, 2023 9:24 am

I can't answer about the oil for an aux. trans as I don't have one, but I will say you sure's heck don't want to start the car IN GEAR unless you're prepared to have it take off on you and possibly hit something or someone!! Always start it with the hand lever "pulled back" (with Rockies it will only go as far as verticle) to keep the rear brakes "locked".

If it was going to run you over, it could do it just as easily with or without the extra transmission.

Thanks for the discussion, always love talking about oil Yes of course the T trans should be in neutral

The Warfords (Originals) are great gearboxes, I learned to "gear jam" on one 20 years ago and have one in every T I own ever since.

There is nothing magic about shifting them and despite what anyone says, they CAN be shifted up and down on the fly and you can start them in gear if everything is adjusted right and you have a positive neutral. That said, a real neutral is nice to have. I always start my '26 roadster in Neutral, then clutch in halfway (for T trans neutral) and apply the brake to put mine into low gear. Once you are going, shifting is all done with the throttle, a little finesse and timing. If you get it right....they go between gears smooth as silk. I was taught to always shift with two fingers to glide it into gear, not a fist to jam it in gear so nothing gets broken if you miss and pause for a second in neutral (count 1 - 1,000) before going for the next gear.

Down shifting requires you to slow the car down in-gear as much as possible, go to Neutral, Stab the throttle, then go for the next lower gear. If you feel the teeth a hair, that's okay, you will know when they are in sync and can go for it. once you get the knack for it...you can fly through the gears pretty effortlessly.

I shot this video years ago Showing how to shift my Chicago and how easy it is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=au8NyQRGbv8

The one big thing to note is, if you are putting in a Warford, you HAVE TO HAVE: AUX Brakes (Rocky-Mountain, Disc, etc) and a Foot Throttle.

- The Brakes: These are a MUST. The T transmission brakes stop the trans, the driveshaft, rear axle and my extension the rear wheels. Since the Warford has a true, positive Neutral ....if one misses a shift on a downgrade and cannot get the gearbox into gear again...you now have NO BRAKES at all. This has caused a few accidents and a couple fatalities in recent years. With AUX brakes installed, you now have direct stopping control of the wheels from the pedal and the e-brake lever regardless of whether the Warford is in Neutral or not.

- The Foot Throttle: This is also a must as you need complete control of the throttle and the wheel for safe accurate operation. in a stock T, to shift the Warford, you would have to grab the shift lever with your Right hand, then reach through the steering wheel and run the hand throttle with your Left....letting go of the wheel completely. With a Foot throttle, you have more accurate control of the throttle for better gear sync and you can maintain safe control of the car.

As for lubricating, I have always run 75/140W Full Synthetic in my Chicago Mark-E (very similar to a Warford) and it does great. I use the same in my Ruckstell and it REALLY helps cut down on the friction, heat, etc. You could also use a heavier oil, like a 220w Mineral Oil or 600w which is closest to what those gearboxes were designed to use. Thicker oils help slow the gears down for proper sync.

We have, like Ed, run 600W in our Warford and Chicago transmissions in several different cars over the years. Last year, I decided to try a synthetic gear oil in the Chicago transmission. The product we ended up with was Heavy Shockproof made by Redline. The trans runs noticeably cooler and quieter than with the 600W.
https://www.redlineoil.com/heavy-shockproof