MTFCA Forum

Don't flame me for bringing up the dreded tire flap topic, I've made the decision to use flaps on my 21" demountable rims. But, my question is . . . I have obtained the typical rubber tire flaps as well as two canvas strips that were used as flaps at some point in time. This is new to me, not being rubber. I obviousely have four rubber flaps to use, but the canvas flap intriques me as these will go on my WWI ambulance project. Adn, a military or Red Cross motor pool would have used the resources available to get a vehicle back into service. So, these canvas flaps have seen their better days and I would not reuse them, but use them as a pattern to reconstruct new canvas webbing flaps.

Is there something I need to be aware of in attempting to use canvas webbing instead of rubber? Moisture retention? Scuffing?

I will sand and treat the rims prior to installation to get them as smooth as possible and my experience in the WWII combat rim flap installation is that 75 prcent of the requirement for them was not pinching the tube during installation and 25 percent tube protection during use. So, I'm thinking the same.

Thoughts?

And, when we are done discussing this, we can move on to Marvel Mystery Oil .

I can't comment on canvas vs rubber flaps.

However, because you are mounting balloon tires on split rims, installing tire flaps is absolutely correct and not controversial. Flaps are required to protect the rim from the split and the rim lock.

The controversy pertains to using flaps with clincher tires and rims.

Are you sure the canvas one isn't felt? I have one that came out of my 1920 Dodge Brothers that is a felt material. It is not homemade. The edges are tapered with thicker center.

If as you say you have already obtained new rubber flaps, why are you considering using something home made and from non standard material? I have been involved with Model T's for over 50 years and am unaware of canvas tire flaps. Using logic as to what the WWI Red Cross motor pool might have on hand is mute since demountable rims were not available until 1919 and 21" split rims were not available until 1925.

I have removed "era" canvas flaps from T tires !

They may very well be felt. My wife felt them and believed them to be covered with flannel as the inner side that was not subject to metal rim exposure feels fuzzy. And, yes, I thought it was formed that way after decades of use, but they could be thicker in the center and thinner at the sidewall tucked in edges.
I'm not hearing that moisture retention is a concern. If it was, I was even thinking nylon web strapping to use as a flap.

Yes, I have the rubber flaps. But, perhaps someone else can use tthem as I have the resources to consider another option. And, I like the canvas web strap story in my military vehicle. This is the look I am going for. I just presumed the spare tire mounted on the side panel of this example was a demountable as it has no wooden spokes. I guess it could be a clincher tire, but don't know why they would carry one that needed an entire wheel disassembly.

Humblej wrote: ↑

Thu Feb 15, 2024 12:57 pm

... why are you considering using something home made and from non standard material?

Not home made or non-standard. Just another construction used in the Model T era.

That said, I'd use the new rubber ones.

signsup wrote: ↑

Thu Feb 15, 2024 1:54 pm

They may very well be felt. My wife felt them and believed them to be covered with flannel as the inner side that was not subject to metal rim exposure feels fuzzy. And, yes, I thought it was formed that way after decades of use, but they could be thicker in the center and thinner at the sidewall tucked in edges.
I'm not hearing that moisture retention is a concern. If it was, I was even thinking nylon web strapping to use as a flap.

Yes, I have the rubber flaps. But, perhaps someone else can use tthem as I have the resources to consider another option. And, I like the canvas web strap story in my military vehicle. This is the look I am going for. I just presumed the spare tire mounted on the side panel of this example was a demountable as it has no wooden spokes. I guess it could be a clincher tire, but don't know why they would carry one that needed an entire wheel disassembly. example 1.jpg

That type of demount-able rim was not offered until 1919.
Another incorrect representation.

Yes, I have the rubber flaps. But, perhaps someone else can use them as I have the resources to consider another option. And, I like the canvas web strap story in my military vehicle. This is the look I am going for.

Canvas web strap story????

As to the "look" you're going for, nobody will ever see the flaps as they're hidden inside the tires.

Eric is right. Flaps are meant to be used on split rims. They offer protection to the tube, especially at the split.
I would stick to rubber flaps. They will stretch/relax. They need to stretch when the rim is again spread to lock the split.

Allan from down under.

Two points I will make.
The wheels are not correct for the era of the car, and they show to a viewer. The flaps are hidden inside the tires and will not be seen, so use the rubber flaps.
I personally would be more concerned with what is seen by the person looking at the car, than what is hidden inside.
Norm

Well, I'm not one of those guys that comes here looking for validation for something that my mind was already made up on. I'll bow to the will of the masses. Rubber flaps it is.

TO THE BABY POWDER!!!

The original era cloth/canvas/felt liners I have seen were well made, formed to fit the compound curvature inside the tire, and far superior to any rubber flaps I have ever seen. The 1927 Paige my dad bought over fifty years ago had several original tire liners in its wheels. I still have them, some inside the newer tires on the wheels now.
If they are in good condition, keep them, maybe use them, whether on this T or another car, doesn't matter. They are an example of how things were made back in the day, but not some sort of battle zone "make-do".

I can always make seat belts out of them. But, I can still tell their story, perhaps a little better with them out of the wheels to use as show and tell.

Rubber is the best choice for the purpose and on split rims, is crucial. On rusted, pitted split rims, is even more so. Jim Patrick

Agreed James. felt/canvas will wet at the split, and retain this moisture for some time. It is rust out from the split which causes many failures on T split rims. The sides of the rim get thinner over time due to rust at the join. I have seen some cruse welding jobs to correct this.

Allan from down under.

Look what I found! An old ripped up flap…. It says “20 x 4.40 APPLY THIS END FIRST”. It’s a 1/16” thick X 3” wide piece of rubber tapered down to nothing on the outside edges wrapped in a thin canvas type material.

Sorry about the upside down picture…..