MTFCA Forum

My previous T would give me a free start, on average, about every 30 or 40 starting attempts. More when it was warmed up and less when it was not. But my current project, while fiddling with carb and stuck valve, etc. has bben started at least 100 times with no such free start. In fact, when I turn the ignition on, I have yet to hear a buzz. Once it starts turning over on the starter, it will make all four coils buzz and she starts up easily. And, not only do I not get an immediate buzz when the ignition is switched on, with the timing in full retard, I can move the timing lever at the steering wheel all the way down it's travel and not catch a buzz.

Is this a matter of the engine stopping in a sweet spot that is not so sweet? Or the timeing rod needing some sort of adjustment? Or...if it ain't broke, don't fix it?

I have not lined up my no 1 cylinder at TDC with the no 1 wire at the timer. Something I need to do?

Free starts are a matter of luck for the starter. It just happens to be wherever the engine stops. I had a car that used to do it almost 50% of the time and after I rebuilt the engine it doesn’t do it anymore. It’s how sometimes especially the older cars used to get the teeth worn off of the flywheel and one spot. It’s just the way the engine stopped more likely than not.

Nothing to worry about as far as I’m concerned, but when it happens, it’s a pretty neat conversation piece.

The engine usually stops in one of two spots opposite each other where the compression is the lowest. It depends therefore on a few things whether it will give you a free stop. Not likely if you turn off the fuel first and burn off all the gas in the carburetor. Or if it is parked in gear with the brake off it might roll just a bit past the free spot. So you need fuel mixture in the same cylinder which gets the spark when you turn the key. Some timers will be more apt to give the free spot. With battery, the coil will buzz at any time the timer is in contact, so for about 1/4 inch from point of contact and point of disconnect. So if the buzz just happens when the rotor is in contact with the spark coming just past top dead center on the compression stroke it will start with the key on if the cylinder is primed.
I find the best way to get a free start is when I have parked in a place with onlookers. Someone asks me to demonstrate crank start. Quite often it gives me a free start. Also sometime happens when I stop to get gas and start it up. Less likely to do it when cold.
Norm

A hotshot son of a GM sealer was amazed when my first T tourer would start by itself.He was even more amazed when I started it 22 times in a row before I had to use the starter. I didn't bother trying to explain this to a GM owner.

I rarely get a free start with Henrietta. I put it down to the Anderson timer I use. The flapper may have less contact area when compared with a roller timer, so the stopping position would need to be more precise. Note where the advance lever is when you get a free start, and set it there always. With the timing right, all you need now is for the motor to stop in the right spot. It may be my imagination, but old, well worn motors seem to stop in the same spot more often. A newer rebuild will have more friction and rundown on compression will stop it sooner than a worn motor.

Allan from down under.

Not to hijack this a little bit, but kind of reminds me of something funny that happened to me a few months ago. My 15 has never had a free start in a couple years. I was backing out of a parking spot one day and I stalled it in traffic. So I get out and push it back into a parking spot to let traffic go by. And I’ll be son of a gun if I didn’t turn the key and it started right up. I could’ve done that in the middle of the road and saved the little embarrassment.

It all comes down too if there’s a charge of fuel in the cylinder and everything is in the right spot.

Well, then, I'm not going to lose sleep over it. And, yes, my previous T would pick it's free start time right when I was trying to crank start for a crowd at a car show. Kinda looses it's impact when you turn the key and it starts right up, they look at you like, "what's the big deal?" Now, if I could find a key fob that would make the horn chirp twice like an aucto alarm, I'd fit right in.

I have a 1912 that has lower compression but dose not effect the running. I get an unusual number of free starts. Unlike others that have indicated that coldness effects the free start, I get a free start many times when I have a first start of the day. It may have a lot to do with the starting procedure I have. I crank a single compression stroke with the choke closed for each cylinder and the ignition off. I set the gas at 1/4 open, the timer fully retarded and hit the key to battery. FREE START!!

For Brian, It is possible that when you pushed the car, the slight drag on the flywheel when in neutral, caused the engine to turn just a small amount which brought everything to the right time for the spark to ignite in one of the cylinders.
Norm

I have had cases where the car started just as I grabbed the starter crank! This why you should make sure the key is off or removed before working under the hood. You never know when your Lizzy is going to wake up and bite you.

DickC wrote: ↑

Tue Feb 20, 2024 10:11 am

I get a free start many times when I have a first start of the day. It may have a lot to do with the starting procedure I have. I crank a single compression stroke with the choke closed for each cylinder and the ignition off. I set the gas at 1/4 open, the timer fully retarded and hit the key to battery. FREE START!!

I guess it depends on how you define "free start". My understanding of a free start has been when you don't do anything to the car other than retard the timing, open the gas a bit, turn the ignition to battery and it starts up. Priming it a couple of 1/4 turns seems no different than doing a normal start, except the key isn't set to MAG or BATT before doing the 3rd or 4th 1/4 turn.

signsup wrote: ↑

Mon Feb 19, 2024 8:25 pm

In fact, when I turn the ignition on, I have yet to hear a buzz. Once it starts turning over on the starter, it will make all four coils buzz and she starts up easily. And, not only do I not get an immediate buzz when the ignition is switched on, with the timing in full retard, I can move the timing lever at the steering wheel all the way down it's travel and not catch a buzz.

Are you sure the switch is in good condition and wired correctly? If it is correctly wired, and the key is turned to "Batt", you should hear the buzzing going from one coil to the next with pauses between each as you crank the engine over slowly. If you do not hear good solid buzzing on each and every coil in turn, either the switch is wired wrong, or there is a bad connection somewhere (commonly inside the switch?) which only makes contact when the car is shaking?
Numerous times, I have seen or heard of model Ts never buzzing the coils only to find out that the owner was starting the car on the magneto when the switch was on "Batt". One fellow I met on a big tour many years ago had been starting his car (with the starter) for a couple years then switching to the battery to drive it because the switch was wired sideways. The magneto was good and hot, so the car always fired right up! But it ran better on the tour after he was told what his mistake was (thinking the fellow he had bought the car from knew what he was doing?), and he dove it on the magneto instead of the battery.

Just a thought.