MTFCA Forum

Looks like an early open-valve engine in Photo #1.

The no. 2 photo is really interesting. The guy who is using the Oxy-acetelyne torch is busy with his job. Right in front of his work area is a rack full of all kinds of hammers. There must be around 20. I can remember my Grandfathers boxes of tools he used at his blacksmith shop before he moved into town in his 60’s. He had several hammers and anvil mounted punches and etc. But not as many hammers as this shop had. They must have done a lot of shaping and forming with different types of hammers.

number one photo is of a 1911 open roadster. It has E&J lights and the engine is an open valve one, making it an early production., probably in 1910. The floor boards are out, so one wonders what thay plan to do or fix.

ModelT46 wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 23, 2024 1:11 pm

number one photo is of a 1911 open roadster. It has E&J lights and the engine is an open valve one, making it an early production., probably in 1910. The floor boards are out, so one wonders what thay plan to do or fix.

And that poor car looks like it was beat to s--t!!! Man so many of these cars in Tom's excellent batch of pics over many months sure are beat to crap! Notice too on this car, being original of course, the nice round radius where the body turns upward toward the dash. Sadly so many reconstructed bodies are a sharp turn. That's usually how you can tell when a car body of that era isn't original. There's one that way for sale somewhere, I forget where I saw it.

In photo 1, I want that swage on the floor in front of the anvil. That large size is unusual for a blacksmith shop.

Mark Nunn wrote: ↑

Fri Feb 23, 2024 4:20 pm

In photo 1, I want that swage on the floor in front of the anvil. That large size is unusual for a blacksmith shop.

Photo 2?

In photo 3 are the cars standing up on end? I didn't know that was a storage option.......

Hers a few from some Model T sales agents garages in Victoria, Australia. These pictures have been the inspiration for a series of articles that have been appearing in our chapter newsletter, called "Old Victorian T Garages."

In the Australian photo #1 that looks like an early motorcycle by three signpost.

Picture #3 reminded me of this: planes in a boneyard after WW2

Photo number eleven, the 1915/'16 touring car has an interesting detail in the photo. One I don't know quite what to make of it. Look very closely at the sidelamp on the right (passenger's) side of the car. To me, it appears to maybe be a tail lamp, possibly with the large red lens switched out to the side lamp clear lens. Pointing inward, toward the cowl is what appears to be what might have been the smaller clear license plate clear lens.
Or? What else might that be on the in side of that sidelamp? Why might that have been done?
Kind of funny actually. Just a day ago I wrote a somewhat lengthy response on the AACA forum explaining some of the after-market oil lamps made and sold by the same companies that made some of Ford's oil lamps later during the late 1910s and early 1920s, some of which were used on the back of truck cabs to provide light for workers to load trucks in the dark.
My first thought upon noticing the lamp in this photo was that it might have been one of those after-market lamps, and that is a possibility. Early alternate versions of the oil lamps used by Ford in 1915 were on the market by 1915. They occasionally show up with alternate spade mountings to update non-Ford automobiles as well as earlier model Ts with more modern looking oil lamps.

Maybe the sidelamp was damaged, and the dealer had a spare tail lamp simply swapped the bezel and lens? Or, maybe I am just seeing things?

Anybody wanting or willing to speculate?

Hi Wayne. The bowl on both lamps appear to be flat bottomed rather than the round bottom like most of those lamps. After market or early '15 perhaps. The side lens would show clearly if the lamp was burning.
Nice observation. The driver's side WS hinge looks extra-large too. Perhaps just the photography.
Rich

Yes, but by 1915/16 it isn't just after market lamps and "parts"......
It could be a $90 aftermarket touring body on a 1912 -14 chassis, who knows?

John C. Nagel, of Detroit, was selling new 1915 and 1916 Ford open bodies
even as the cars were coming off the assembly line. The $65 crated 1915
Roadster body add is in the June 17, 1915, edition of Motor Age trade magazine.

Photo no 2 is interesting in showing the transition from blacksmiths shop to motor garage. The big hole in the diff housing may be just the thing a blacksmith would be called on to repair in a situation where ready replacement parts were not available. It certainly is more than a farrier's shop with all that extra machinery available. It's the sort of shop which could make agricultural machinery like ploughs and stuff.

Allan from down under.

Photo No 3 of the hanging 16'ns is dated Feb 1 1916, wrong date? a heap of old stock T's? as the 2nd T on the right side looks to be a black radiator 17.

Rich Eagle wrote: ↑

Sat Feb 24, 2024 12:40 pm

Hi Wayne. The bowl on both lamps appear to be flat bottomed rather than the round bottom like most of those lamps. After market or early '15 perhaps. The side lens would show clearly if the lamp was burning.
Nice observation.

Thank you for the closeup pictures! They help a lot. I was also wondering about those font bowls and their shape. But I wasn't sure about them. The tail lamp I have for my 1915 runabout is one of the early 1915 only variants with the larger flatter bottom font bowl. The entire lamp at a glance looks like the common later 1915 and into the 1920s lamps, however on closer inspection, nearly every part (other than the lens and bezel) is quite different. There were apparently several different early variations of oil lamps used on model Ts before about March of 1915. Production those first few months was very low, so era photos showing the early lamps are uncommon.
This photo doesn't clearly indicate whether the car is an early or later 1915 or 1916. Trim on the lamps doesn't appear to be bright brass, although the brass could have been painted or tarnished by the time the photo was taken? The spark and throttle levers are the earlier "paddle" style. Could this cr be a pre-March 1915? The windshield hinge does look heavier than the 1915 hinges I have. But I don't recall ever reading about a change in the hinges like that? Also, I have a pair of 1914 hinges which are very similar to the 1915 hinges, except that there is no "front to back" offset for rain to drip forward of the lower pane. So I find myself expecting the 1915 hinges to have quickly made the change in the offset without a heavier in-between hinge.

An intriguing photo. Thank you for your interest Rich!

Okay. I stared at the closeup of the windshield hinge. I have convinced myself that it is not heavier than the typical 1915 into early 1917 hinge, or the slightly different 1914 ones either. It is an optical illusion, a "trick of the light" that makes it appear heavier. The typical 1915 into early 1917 and the slightly different 1914 hinges have a much more prominent set of circular detents than all the later "offset folding" hinges had. Those deeper detents had a raised trail running full circle between all the detents. The sunlight is at just the right angle to reflect off the raised trail, which is what makes the hinge look thicker and heavier.

Photo number nine is a nice look at a fairly new looking late 1912 with no outside rear door handle. Notice also the door is rear opening, since that question seems to come up from time to time.
Although the car is in less than perfect condition, with a dented radiator and missing the right headlamp, it gives a pretty good look at the body's pinstriping.

In photo #2 a lot of those hammers in the rack are handled top tools, the the blacksmith would either hold in one hand and strike with the other or he would drive the top tool and a striker would run the hammer.

The add for the John C. Nagel after market Roadster and Touring bodies is interesting. Was there a noticeable difference in them from Ford factory bodies? Does anyone have a car with one of his bodies? Or would they know for sure?

I beieve the Fisher body provided 1915 open bodies for Ford. If so, it is possible that another company could order similar bodies for resale.

The 1915/16 Touring does appear to have a New York 1916 plate.