MTFCA Forum

When using a set of number stamps, how much effort should be required to stamp new numbers into the block pad above the water inlet on the side of the block? I have a block that's original use was probably for a stationary engine as it has a non Ford type motor number stamped on the pad of a 1927 vaporizer block. I know its going to require a machinist's hammer or such to hit the stamp hard enough with; a carpenter's claw hammer or a light weight ball peen hammer isn't going to be heavy enough. I only want to hit the stamp hard enough to create an imprint like the factory did, and not cause damage to the block. What do those of you who have experience, recommend?

ModelTWoods wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 08, 2024 12:36 am

When using a set of number stamps, how much effort should be required to stamp new numbers into the block pad above the water inlet on the side of the block? I have a block that's original use was probably for a stationary engine as it has a non Ford type motor number stamped on the pad of a 1927 vaporizer block. I know its going to require a machinist's hammer or such to hit the stamp hard enough with; a carpenter's claw hammer or a light weight ball peen hammer isn't going to be heavy enough. I only want to hit the stamp hard enough to create an imprint like the factory did, and not cause damage to the block. What do those of you who have experience, recommend?

So your saying there is no number on the pad above the water inlet... so its likely a replacement engine.
Some good ideas in this link for aliment etc scroll down https://www.practicalmachinist.com/foru ... ely.97999/


So two more issues to overcome
1. Engine numbers were used to ID the car on a Title along with the Make as the unique ID & filed with the State of issue. Today just a number is used as the VIN and the rest of the information is just data about the number in a single database. So you would want to pick a number that matches the engine & one that is not currently being used by someone else (Ford or non-Ford). https://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/sernos.htm
2. The stamp font should be similar to what as well. Aliment isn't to critical but reduces suspicion

Terry, you don't need to stamp the block at all. Get a sheet of white paper, dirty up a finger, and make a pressing of the block water outlet/engine number pad. This will give you a paper template to make a brass sheet cut to shape. Then stamp the number you want on the sheet off the car, with whatever stamps and hammer you like. Then fit the nicely stamped brass plate to the block with a good smear of black RTV, then the usual gasket and the water outlet casting. You can smear the excess RTV around the edges of the plate and no-one will ever know .

I had to do this with my barn fresh buckboard, as the pad was badly rusted and the last digit was gone. It was far easier to make it match the paperwork than make the paperwork match the engine for the registration department.

The same applies when you have to substitute another block if your original is beyond salvaging for whatever reason.

Allan from down under.

We have stamped both thin data plates as well as engine blocks with serial numbers. The data plates take very little force as you will go right through the brass or zinc plate. The engine block can be done by hand with larger numbered stamps and a 2 or 5 pound hammer. We cobbled up an old socket to hold the numbered stamp die so we did not mash our fingers. Drew a felt pen line so we could be reasonably straight and hammer away.

Terry

Have done both, the brass tag, cut to fit completely over the boss, then stamped, and using J-B Weld Quick glued over the serial boss.

Have also filed off an original serial and re-stamped. The brass plate was very good at hiding, and looking original.

The file drag caused a line across the boss, if you used a mill you could get a true flat boss. Then you have to choose nice fonts, I found Harbor Freight numerals to be pretty good to use. A 2.5 lb. mallet was best, but the factory guys used a machinists hammer with a wide swing, but they did thousands!

Takes steady fingers to hold the small stamp dies, and worry of hitting them with the hammer So some are more faint than others, but it sort of looked like some factory stamps, but the file line is a give away. The brass tag over was better looking and less work.

I use a 3 pound hammer and a decent swing.

In that same Ford film showing engine assembly you can see that Ford bolted a guide to the water inlet to place the number stamp on , for proper number placement. Also in this film only the last three digits of the engine number are stamped at this time, the other numbers having been stamped prior, the man stamping only stamps three digits in the film at this location.

It is illegal to modify a serial number for any reason. In CA it is in section 10751 of the vehicle code. I learned this the hard way.

Yup, that's true.

Chris Haynes wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 10, 2024 12:12 am

It is illegal to modify a serial number for any reason. In CA it is in section 10751 of the vehicle code. I learned this the hard way.

It is, in a lot of states; maybe all. The trick is to do a factory job of milling, filing, stamping and or doing the brass plate trick, so it looks factory to the untrained eye. In my case, the number for this former stationary motor is so far off from looking like a factory stamp that if I showed the original stationary stamp and an original factory stamped block to a law enforcement officer (which is required in my state), he'd have to have the intelligence of BARNEY FIFE, not to see the difference.

When you file, grind, mill, or any other way of removing a number you flatten the number boss. It no longer matches the rest of the texture on the block. No matter what stamps you use it isn't going to fool a govt. employee who's job is to verify numbers.

It has been my experience that if I lift the hood, point out where to find the number, and the number is clearly decipherable, the inspector welcomes the ease of making his inspection. Just leave him to it. don't engage any further. They run a computer check to see if the number comes up elsewhere, or has been reported stolen. Job done.

Allan from down under.

Chris Haynes wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 14, 2024 10:22 pm

When you file, grind, mill, or any other way of removing a number you flatten the number boss. It no longer matches the rest of the texture on the block. No matter what stamps you use it isn't going to fool a govt. employee who's job is to verify numbers.

A favorite saying of my father who grew up around Cajuns in Louisiana, was: "There's more ways than one, to skin a cat." An owner could do the brass plate trick, using an adhesive that wasn't permanent; then after the law officer's inspection, remove the brass tag and do what he wanted to the number boss. If you hear I'm in jail, you'll know why.

ModelTWoods wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 15, 2024 12:45 am

Chris Haynes wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 14, 2024 10:22 pm

When you file, grind, mill, or any other way of removing a number you flatten the number boss. It no longer matches the rest of the texture on the block. No matter what stamps you use it isn't going to fool a govt. employee who's job is to verify numbers.

A favorite saying of my father who grew up around Cajuns in Louisiana, was: "There's more ways than one, to skin a cat." An owner could do the brass plate trick, using an adhesive that wasn't permanent; then after the law officer's inspection, remove the brass tag and do what he wanted to the number boss. If you hear I'm in jail, you'll know why.

The texture on a brass plate won't look like an original cast block. Do you think inspectors are stupid?

Re-numbering a T block can be legal with satisfactory documentation.


A block may be re-stamped to match a held valid title , in owners name, so the motor number is correctly recorded for proper registration, is one way. In FL, a pre-1927 car may have the motor and number changed by the owner, who holds valid title, by a self certification form, to provide reissue of a corrected title showing the new motor number.

Chris Haynes wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 16, 2024 4:45 am

ModelTWoods wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 15, 2024 12:45 am

Chris Haynes wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 14, 2024 10:22 pm

When you file, grind, mill, or any other way of removing a number you flatten the number boss. It no longer matches the rest of the texture on the block. No matter what stamps you use it isn't going to fool a govt. employee who's job is to verify numbers.

A favorite saying of my father who grew up around Cajuns in Louisiana, was: "There's more ways than one, to skin a cat." An owner could do the brass plate trick, using an adhesive that wasn't permanent; then after the law officer's inspection, remove the brass tag and do what he wanted to the number boss. If you hear I'm in jail, you'll know why.

The texture on a brass plate won't look like an original cast block. Do you think inspectors are stupid?

Chris, the brass plate 'thing' wasn't my idea. someone else on this post, mentioned it. I would have never thought of it.