MTFCA Forum

The last time I attached the Radius Rod to the oil pan I had a bit of difficulty but someone suggested to use a jack to push it in and I was able to get the ball to connect. This time It looks as if the whole axel has to move back about an inch. Take a look at the video and you can see what it's doing.

We had the car on its wheels and tried to get it in with the jack. Then we put the car's frame on jack stands so there is no weight on the front axel and tried.

My next step is to loosen up the spring perches/radius Rod nuts and see if I can get it to move into position. Any thoughts? Tricks?

My spring purchase are facing correctly.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21R2ah6fzzQ

Have you tried putting some weight into the body to lower the frame so that the wishbone is more level with the axle to the crankcase? Even getting someone or people to sit in the front seat, might help.
Norm

Norman Kling wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 09, 2024 1:28 pm

Have you tried putting some weight into the body to lower the frame so that the wishbone is more level with the axle to the crankcase? Even getting someone or people to sit in the front seat, might help.
Norm

I will have to try that. I will also carefully ask my wife to sit in the car. I might have to get both in there. Ha!!

In looking at the video it is apparent to me that as the wishbone is traveling on an arc, piviting counterclockwise up and towards the front, as you jack it up and as the axle moves towards the rear. --

The Service manual procedure has the car lifted off the axle when it was removed & then lowered on onto the axle that is on jacks. That puts load on the spring since the axle is still on jacks

Your words in the video pretty much say it all, "... without any weight on the suspension..." If the spring weren't arched so high, your wishbone ball would drop into place. Let the car's weight rest on the suspension.

This car had incorrect spindles from earlier car, then you replaced with the proper 1926-27 ones which lowered the axle, correct? Was the wishbone also replaced or the mounting ears bent to compensate?

Once upon a time I slung nylon tie down straps on the front and rear axles and used a come-along to pull the axles together just enough so the wishbone ball slid into the socket. Then another time I draped a leather welding glove over the middle of the front axle and clamped down on it with a large pipe wrench. Then I asked the wife to stand on the handle while I capped the wishbone ball into the socket. It worked too.

Line_Noise wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 09, 2024 3:38 pm

This car had incorrect spindles from earlier car, then you replaced with the proper 1926-27 ones which lowered the axle, correct? Was the wishbone also replaced or the mounting ears bent to compensate?

No the spindles were correct 26/27 I switched them out for NOS 26/27's. The radius rod is the same. I also switched out the axel with one that had been correctly straightened and had Dan Hatch's inserts as well. I'm going to try to put the weight back on the car and have us get in while Angie jacks it up. If that won't work I'll go back to what the book says.

Use a cable winch(come along) oe ratchet tie down straps. Axle to axle.
Should not take much pull to get into position.I have also chocked the front wheels & had a friend push @ the rear. Moving 2 rear chocks to keep the wheel base together.

I started to post earlier but didn’t. The above post from speedytinc is almost the way I did the hookup on my two T’s. The other T I have is a runabout that didn’t give much trouble like the 24 Coupe and 21 Touring did.
The cable puller I use stretching long runs of barbed wire fencing is what I used to pull the axles together.

Jerry VanOoteghem wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 09, 2024 3:20 pm

Your words in the video pretty much say it all, "... without any weight on the suspension..." If the spring weren't arched so high, your wishbone ball would drop into place. Let the car's weight rest on the suspension.

There's no need to use clamps, cables, jacks, or pulleys. I'll say it again... Just compress the suspension and you've got it made.

Line_Noise wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 09, 2024 3:38 pm

This car had incorrect spindles from earlier car, then you replaced with the proper 1926-27 ones which lowered the axle, correct? Was the wishbone also replaced or the mounting ears bent to compensate?

Is this what your talking about? To compensate for the early perch with over the axle wishbone?

After installing many engines and front ends in mostly other peoples cars, they pretty much don't line up without a little help.
The weight of the engine and tranny will push the front axle forward due to the built in caster of the front end.
The fastest and easiest way to solve the problem is to go to the ratchet strap stash in the truck, trailer, wherever.
If you have a Model T you have to have a way to strap your treasures down for the ride home so you already own some.
Wide straps are easier, but the narrow ones work fine.
Tie together both sides of the front to rear axles and ratchet it into position.
The straps will not mess up the paint so it is safe to use on pretty cars.
I can fix the problem in less time than it takes for me to type this response.

If you insist on doing it the Ford way then lift the frame and take the weight off the suspension and the axle will swing back for you.
But that takes more tools, is harder and, or unsafe due to the height of the frame being so high.

And once it is installed make sure the shackles and springs move smoothly to avoid death wobble issues.
Mike

Thanks everyone. I put the car back down and the ball was a lot closer to the correct position. Then my wife and I got in the car and Angie looked at the ball as we got in and it moved up but not back. I'm going to get two tow straps and place them where the radius rod attaches to the axel then run a 2x4 through the straps and use my come along to get it to go in. It only has to move about a half inch for it to pop into place.

After you get it all in place, be sure to check the castor of the wheels. The bottom of the axle should be ahead of the top of the axle. See the books for the correct angle.
Norm

Norman Kling wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 09, 2024 8:44 pm

After you get it all in place, be sure to check the castor of the wheels. The bottom of the axle should be ahead of the top of the axle. See the books for the correct angle.
Norm

Thanks Norm. I'm going to roll it back and forth a few times then check everything.

TRDxB2 wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 09, 2024 7:13 pm

Line_Noise wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 09, 2024 3:38 pm

This car had incorrect spindles from earlier car, then you replaced with the proper 1926-27 ones which lowered the axle, correct? Was the wishbone also replaced or the mounting ears bent to compensate?

Is this what your talking about? To compensate for the early perch with over the axle wishbone?

Almost...the photos you quoted and the posts they came from, refer to differences in 1918-25 vs. 1926-27, which all had the wishbone attaching under the axle.

In those prior discussions, users commented on observed differences in radius rods they had laying around, and difficulty getting the alignment on a 26-27 car to the Ford specified -5.5 degree caster.

This has led some to speculate that Ford produced radius rods with different configuration for 26-27, even though the parts books and research all indicates nothing officially changed from 1918 thru 1927.

Line_Noise wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 10, 2024 9:04 am

TRDxB2 wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 09, 2024 7:13 pm

Line_Noise wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 09, 2024 3:38 pm

This car had incorrect spindles from earlier car, then you replaced with the proper 1926-27 ones which lowered the axle, correct? Was the wishbone also replaced or the mounting ears bent to compensate?

Is this what your talking about? To compensate for the early perch with over the axle wishbone?

Almost...the photos you quoted and the posts they came from, refer to differences in 1918-25 vs. 1926-27, which all had the wishbone attaching under the axle.

In those prior discussions, users commented on observed differences in radius rods they had laying around, and difficulty getting the alignment on a 26-27 car to the Ford specified -5.5 degree caster.

This has led some to speculate that Ford produced radius rods with different configuration for 26-27, even though the parts books and research all indicates nothing officially changed from 1918 thru 1927.

Interesting. I bet there wee many changes along the way that weren't documented.

One thing which might be part of the problem is the height of your front spring. The later T's had a lower front spring which kept the chassis closer to the axle. The spring in your picture looks like a very high arch. If you altered your spring that might explain why you need more weight in front to get the ball in place.
Norm

I fought this same battle. I replaced my old axle with a straighter one along with new (repro) perches. I did not remove the spring from the frame or change the wishbone. The ball on the wishbone fit nicely using the old axle but I had to use ratchet straps to pull the front axle back to reinstall everything. I had to pull more than I would prefer to align the ball and socket.

Well it went in with the tie down straps. Take a look at the video.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/YFwLsi8iViE

A bracket, clamp, or brace, are to hold parts that are fitted together without compromise. If you need to pull anything to place before committing security, it will always go to where it wants to be. Is the front crossmember structure correct? Is the crankcase radius rod socket punched in from a bad life? As we are building components, we need to look outside the immediate area to the engineering and fitment of the parts group as a whole. Spring perch nuts, shackle nuts, and spring center clamp nuts, should be tightened when everything fitted and happy.