KampKar for sale One of two originals

Discuss all things Model T related.
Forum rules
If you need help logging in, or have question about how something works, use the Support forum located here Support Forum
Complete set of Forum Rules Forum Rules
User avatar

Topic author
Matt in California
Posts: 274
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:42 pm
First Name: Matt
Last Name: G
Location: California
MTFCA Number: 30697

KampKar for sale One of two originals

Post by Matt in California » Thu May 30, 2019 9:51 pm

[I am starting this tread this to discuss the KampKar. I am not selling it.]

https://fresno.craigslist.org/rvs/d/fis ... 17421.html

I saw this on craigslist and talked with owner. I don't have the correct degree to offer "psychological services":)

Evidently he put $65K in the restoration. I am asking him to send me some photos that I can post online.
00c0c_gLAFgXobai_600x450.jpg
00c0c_gLAFgXobai_600x450.jpg (41.96 KiB) Viewed 2570 times
Out of my budget, but I would love to hear others thoughts.

Matt


FreighTer Jim
Posts: 476
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:50 am
First Name: James
Last Name: Jarzabek
Location: Dayton, OH
MTFCA Number: 29562
MTFCI Number: 24398
Board Member Since: 2008
Contact:

The Correct Term

Post by FreighTer Jim » Thu May 30, 2019 10:00 pm

The correct term is “ Housecar” or “ House Car “.

That term was a motor vehicle department classification you can still
find used in a few states.

The reference to this as a “ motorhome “ shows a lack
of appreciation and respect.

Since the restoration shop and/or the restorer is not mentioned and the description
is a copy & paste of an internet search - my guess would be the asking price is way off
actual value.


FJ

User avatar

Ruxstel24
Posts: 1523
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:25 am
First Name: Dave
Last Name: Hanlon
Location: NE Ohio
MTFCA Number: 50191
Board Member Since: 2018

Re: KampKar for sale One of two originals

Post by Ruxstel24 » Thu May 30, 2019 10:06 pm

Beautiful car/camper...
Does anyone ever get back what was spent on a T restoration ??
Not sure how rare, but $30K max is my crazy price ! :shock:


FreighTer Jim
Posts: 476
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:50 am
First Name: James
Last Name: Jarzabek
Location: Dayton, OH
MTFCA Number: 29562
MTFCI Number: 24398
Board Member Since: 2008
Contact:

Boat in Idaho

Post by FreighTer Jim » Thu May 30, 2019 10:10 pm

The same person was trying to sell a boat in Idaho last year.

He must get around:

@ https://www.cdapress.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ ... &ID=190184


FJ


Dropacent
Posts: 670
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:39 am
First Name: Tim
Last Name: Morsher
Location: Norwalk Ohio

Re: KampKar for sale One of two originals

Post by Dropacent » Thu May 30, 2019 10:51 pm

Hmmmmph ! The correct term IS KampKar. Actually Lamsteed KampKar. A beautiful one was driven from California to the first homecoming in Richmond several years ago, and then displayed there for awhile. From my poor memory, I believe they were made by anheiser buesch......there was some involvement there. Also, the family that made listerene has some connection. Hopefully Peter Kable (spel?) can weigh in. I doubt you could restore one for the money, if you could even find one to restore.

User avatar

Topic author
Matt in California
Posts: 274
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:42 pm
First Name: Matt
Last Name: G
Location: California
MTFCA Number: 30697

Re: KampKar for sale One of two originals

Post by Matt in California » Thu May 30, 2019 10:53 pm

Jim,
Yes, he does. When I talked with him he mentioned has a number of locations. He is connected with a business locally, so I have no concern that he is legit.

Matthew


Floydv
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 1:17 pm
First Name: Floyd
Last Name: Voie
Location: Chehalis,Washington
Board Member Since: 2005

Re: KampKar for sale One of two originals

Post by Floydv » Thu May 30, 2019 11:33 pm

I thought I saw where Peter Kable had signed up on the new forum but perhaps not. I would consider him the mtfca resident authority on the KampKar. Peter lives in Australia but had his KampKar on display in the US for several years then drove it on a rather long tour and road trip before the KampKar was shipped back to AU. Hopefully he will chime in here.


Floydv
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 1:17 pm
First Name: Floyd
Last Name: Voie
Location: Chehalis,Washington
Board Member Since: 2005

Re: KampKar for sale One of two originals

Post by Floydv » Thu May 30, 2019 11:40 pm

Tim, I think your " poor memory" is working just fine! I wonder if that KampKar is from the old Harrah's collection?

User avatar

Bob McDaniel
Posts: 182
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 1:44 pm
First Name: Bob
Last Name: McDaniel
Location: Logansport In.
MTFCA Number: 28428
Board Member Since: 2007

Re: KampKar for sale One of two originals

Post by Bob McDaniel » Thu May 30, 2019 11:41 pm

I got to see Peters KampKar in 2008 at Richmond after he and his wife made the trip from the west coast. The route was not a direct line and they hit a lot of places all over the country along the way. I do not know how to search the old forum now but the story was posted back then so maybe someone will post a link. I remember following his adventure thinking how cool it was that he shipped it to the USA and then made that trip of a lifetime that so many of us that live here only wish we could do.
Give an old car guy a barn and he won't throw anything away.


FreighTer Jim
Posts: 476
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:50 am
First Name: James
Last Name: Jarzabek
Location: Dayton, OH
MTFCA Number: 29562
MTFCI Number: 24398
Board Member Since: 2008
Contact:

Ever own one ?

Post by FreighTer Jim » Thu May 30, 2019 11:52 pm

Tim Mosher

The correct term is not “ motorhome “.

The correct term is “ housecar “ or “ house car “.

That - is the period name for the vehicle classification.

Our 1925 Chevrolet Housecar with less than 10,000 miles
and a valid title designation of “ Housecar “ that I
delivered on my trailer to The GM Heritage Museum
back in 2008 .....


FJ


3F408F0B-7EF0-493E-9E05-CA007A708D57.jpeg


11776E9A-F89A-4487-A925-95A2E96598A2.jpeg

User avatar

Topic author
Matt in California
Posts: 274
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:42 pm
First Name: Matt
Last Name: G
Location: California
MTFCA Number: 30697

Re: KampKar for sale One of two originals

Post by Matt in California » Fri May 31, 2019 12:14 am

Evidently the Lamsteed KampKar that went across the USA a few years back was copied off of this car.

Here are more photos that I received from owner.
F949F945-96C3-4F10-A48E-7D09EA280AB1.jpeg
F949F945-96C3-4F10-A48E-7D09EA280AB1.jpeg (20.79 KiB) Viewed 2433 times
4A4FE0FE-8C2F-441D-8553-2C1E56E31A08.jpeg
078E6D6D-B400-4CD9-98DC-2DF7CD9B86F5.jpeg
078E6D6D-B400-4CD9-98DC-2DF7CD9B86F5.jpeg (23.92 KiB) Viewed 2433 times

User avatar

Topic author
Matt in California
Posts: 274
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:42 pm
First Name: Matt
Last Name: G
Location: California
MTFCA Number: 30697

Re: KampKar for sale One of two originals

Post by Matt in California » Fri May 31, 2019 12:19 am

8BA005F3-4F48-4E28-A5EF-2370BFEE71BB.jpeg
4374185F-374E-4B9D-B27E-3659FD3568FE.jpeg
Owner mentioned that he would consider a trade for an early T (09-11).


Dropacent
Posts: 670
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:39 am
First Name: Tim
Last Name: Morsher
Location: Norwalk Ohio

Re: KampKar for sale One of two originals

Post by Dropacent » Fri May 31, 2019 11:25 am

Hey legendary FJ ( in your own mind) are your eyes brown? I just read the Craigslist ad, and googled lampsteed KampKar. There is some great info online, and even a 20 minute video from a trailer historian, worth watching. Yes, my memory is pretty good for unimportant trivia, but can’t remember my name some days. In my opinion, the ad is very well done. Why would you dish it like this? Why insinuate that the seller is some sort of crook? This is an extremely rare production vehicle, with some very famous roots. I would need to see it myself, but In my opinion, I think it’s probably a very fair deal and would be a tremendous historical artifact for someone. On top of that, what is better than a historical artifact that you can use and enjoy.
Thanks for the interesting post, Matt, and the serious comments that follow from other forum members without brown eyes.

User avatar

DLodge
Posts: 191
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:14 pm
First Name: Dick
Last Name: Lodge
Location: St. Louis MO
MTFCA Number: 19659
Board Member Since: 1999

Re: KampKar for sale One of two originals

Post by DLodge » Fri May 31, 2019 2:33 pm

When the Kables came through on their way to Richmond, they stopped in St. Louis and I met them. Delightful people (but they're Australian, of course).
DSCN1970b.JPG
DSCN1973b.JPG
DSCN1975b.JPG
DSCN1976a.JPG
Attachments
DSCN1974b.JPG


MWalker
Posts: 132
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:49 am
First Name: Mike
Last Name: Walker
Location: NW Arkansas
MTFCA Number: 314
MTFCA Life Member: YES

Re: KampKar for sale One of two originals

Post by MWalker » Fri May 31, 2019 9:49 pm

Those pics of Peter & Sally Kable and their Kampkar which Dick Lodge posted were taken in front of my shop. My '15 Touring is in one of the pics. They stayed the night at our house on their way to the Centennial in '08. Great folks and a great Model T!

User avatar

Topic author
Matt in California
Posts: 274
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:42 pm
First Name: Matt
Last Name: G
Location: California
MTFCA Number: 30697

Re: KampKar for sale One of two originals

Post by Matt in California » Fri May 31, 2019 11:02 pm

Dropacent wrote:
Fri May 31, 2019 11:25 am
... There is some great info online, and even a 20 minute video from a trailer historian, worth watching...
Tim, please share the link to the video that you are mentioning.

Dick, thanks for sharing the photos!

Matt

User avatar

Bob McDaniel
Posts: 182
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 1:44 pm
First Name: Bob
Last Name: McDaniel
Location: Logansport In.
MTFCA Number: 28428
Board Member Since: 2007

Re: KampKar for sale One of two originals

Post by Bob McDaniel » Fri May 31, 2019 11:04 pm

Nice pics, Peter and Sally were not around when we saw it so we never got see the inside details of the motorhome part. Thanks for posting these. I looked for Peter where ever we went and asked everyone with that accent if his name was Peter. I bet there were 100+ Australian's here that day! ;)
Give an old car guy a barn and he won't throw anything away.


Luxford
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2019 6:30 pm
First Name: Peter
Last Name: Kable
Location: Australia
MTFCA Life Member: YES

Re: KampKar for sale One of two originals

Post by Luxford » Sat Jun 01, 2019 8:22 am

I can fill everyone in on a few details. David Woodworth who owns the Kamper for sale was the owner of a large proportion of the vintage camping vehicles now in a museum in north Indiana. He also owned the telescopic Camper which was in a past issue of the Vintage Ford.
His Lamsteed when found had been left in the open for some years and needed a full restoration which was done by a firm in Reno.
It is one of two originals, the other is in the Harrah's museum in Reno.

My kamper was built by myself from photo's and drawings I got by visiting the Harrah Kamper, The museum let me measure and photograph it for a sum of $100 to pay for security whilst I viewed the Kamper. The harrah's Kamper was found in very good original condition in CA and restored in the museums workshop.

Being professionally restored David's Kamper did cost him a large amount. As I did my own work I only paid for machining of the mechanics and materials for the body. My cost was less than a 10th of David's. It also has been completely rebuilt with traveling in mind and is fitted with a Model A crank ( only thing available over 20 years ago.) RM brakes and a Moore Gearbox on the tailshaft, ( David's also is fitted with one, the Harrah's has none)

Our two trips in 2008 and 2012 went well 4 flat tires, one failed modern electronic system ( replaced with original coils and timer at beginning of trip in Arizona) and a repair to the pawl on the handbrake ratchet done by Stan Howe in Montana were the only holdups. We did a total of 10,000 plus miles, camped in the Kamper about 1/3 , stayed with friends ( and people we met1/3 and Motels 1/3 of the time. Should have left the Kamper in USA so we could do a lot more.


Bills Auto Works
Posts: 90
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:07 pm
First Name: Bill
Last Name: Squires
Location: Wakeman, Ohio
MTFCA Number: 49996
Board Member Since: 2011
Contact:

Re: KampKar for sale One of two originals

Post by Bills Auto Works » Sun Jun 02, 2019 7:54 am

Thank you Matt for this thread.

I enjoy reading about the more rare & or odd examples of our hobby. As always a few gentlemen kick in some information, insight & photos to make it even more interesting.

Tim, as always your keen insight is "Spot On". I am in town for a week or so..... you may get a visitor on a nice day!

God Bless
Bill
https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/thr ... ed.614419/
Your QUALITY Model T Transporter in Business Since 1983 & Still Going Strong

56, 57 Pont
64 GP
66 Cat Con
66 Amb
73 Nova
92 XJS Con
92 XJS
07 XLR-V


YellowTRacer
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:55 pm
First Name: Ed
Last Name: Archer
Location: 1807 East Ave. Hayward, CA 94541
MTFCA Number: 19
MTFCA Life Member: YES
Board Member Since: 2009

Re: KampKar for sale One of two originals

Post by YellowTRacer » Tue Jun 04, 2019 6:53 pm

Harrah's Kampkar came from Piedmont/Oakland, CA. I was bidding on it at the estate auction held in Berkeley, against Harrah's buyer (a lost cause for me) and I dropped out at I think $625.00 so he got it for $650.00. Since the locals knew I was a model T nut, I got a call from a horseless carriage friend who told me that he had a friend that was an attorney who called him and said that this guy died and their looking for someone that would buy his old Model T. My friend said "since you're a T guy you could take off the weird body that's on it and it appears to have a nice low mileage chassis that you could use with a stock body. Here's the address if you want to go look at it " So I did, the very next day and I loved it! Always stored inside, mint original condition, light surface rust throughout, still had a couple of original "stickers" on the windshield. One from Yosemite National Park and I don't remember where the other one or two were from. All the original varnished wood inside. Absolutely no body or fender damage. Of course I wanted it as it was which in those days the average collector would have just bought it for the chassis and thrown the body away. That evening my friend called again and said "You can't buy it now as they decided to take it down to the local auction house next week and sell all the estate there." And so I think the bidding started at $50.00 and there was only two of us bidding on it. As soon as I would bid the other guy would immediately bid higher, $25.00 increments. I hated to lose it but I had already gone over my limit at $625.00. I think the year was around 1963-4 or 5, long time ago and in my disappointment I tried to forget it. My main disappointment when I finally sew it after the Harrah restoration was the loss of the National Park "stickers"

Ed aka #4


Dropacent
Posts: 670
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:39 am
First Name: Tim
Last Name: Morsher
Location: Norwalk Ohio

Re: KampKar for sale One of two originals

Post by Dropacent » Tue Jun 04, 2019 8:22 pm

Wonderful memories Ed ! You’ve had so many unusual T s over the years, and I’ll bet there are many more stories of ones that got away. Peter and Sally , what can we say. everybody admires your KampKar and the adventures you’ve undertaken with it as fantastic T ambassadors! We’ve sent tons of T parts to Australia for years, kind of sad the exchange rate is so awful now. . And Bill, you are always welcome, but I don’t get started much until the crack of 11 now. Just in time to treat you to the star diner for lunch.


Luxford
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2019 6:30 pm
First Name: Peter
Last Name: Kable
Location: Australia
MTFCA Life Member: YES

Re: KampKar for sale One of two originals

Post by Luxford » Tue Jun 04, 2019 9:04 pm

Ed, Thanks for the story on the Harrah's Kamer, As is often the case when someone gets hold of a vehicle their idea of what has to done to restore it varies from others. I was just looking at photo's of a rare Aussie bodied T which I saw a few years ago it had specially made guards and rare Cleveland wheels the new owner has removed them and put on normal T guards and wheels ???

Further to the Yellowstone stickers the museum also lost the original brass plaque from the side of the Kamper. Luckily they had placed it on a photocopier and copied it, the museum gave me a copy. I had access to a signwriting computer and reproduced it. Story was someone had stolen the original one!

Fingers crossed, I will try and post a photo, last time I tried no go
Attachments
label 01.jpg

User avatar

RustyFords
Posts: 739
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:16 am
First Name: Don
Last Name: Allen
Location: Houston, TX
MTFCA Number: 50001

Re: KampKar for sale One of two originals

Post by RustyFords » Wed Jun 05, 2019 6:59 am

What a great story Ed.

Times have changed. These days, a rare, unmolested car like that would be preserved as it should be.

Back then, and up until recently, the thing to do with nearly every old car was to strip them down and restore them. I did that with a nearly mint original 53 Plymouth Belvedere 30 years ago. That was the first year for the hardtop coupe and the Belvedere name (which later was placed on all sorts of cars) signified only the hardtop. They were very scarce, even then. Looking back, I cringe. I should've just cleaned it up, made it good mechanically, and left it alone.

Some cars need to be restored, but so many should receive what I've heard referred to as a "sympathetic restoration".
1924 Touring

User avatar

kmatt
Posts: 127
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 6:30 pm
First Name: Kevin
Last Name: Matthiesen
Location: Madera California
MTFCA Number: 11598

Re: KampKar for sale One of two originals

Post by kmatt » Wed Jun 05, 2019 5:40 pm

Don, I liked hearing about your 1953 Plymouth Belvedere. My Dad had a new 53 Cranbook club coupe before I came along in 54 and it was the family car until 1964. We went all over in that car including the 1960 Winter Olympic's and 1961 Disneyland, many good memories. At the Harrah's sell off sale, in 1980 I think, a friend of my Dad who worked for Harrah's, and who knew me, came up and said, "you have to see this 1953 Cranbook 4 door we are selling". I went and looked it over, the car was brand new with only 24 miles, it was a High Drive car with many options. The car had been bought by the owners husband for his wife, but in parking it at home she clipped a post, minor front fender damage, but she would not drive it anymore, she didn't like the High Drive. It sat inside unused until the mid 1960's when they gave to Harrah's and then it was in storage until the sell off. The min bid was $800.00 and the Harrah's selling est was over $5000.00, my max due to my finances would have been around $2500.00. I did not go to the sale because I thought they would get over $4000.00. The car sold for $1500.00 and after a few years I got over my loss.

User avatar

RustyFords
Posts: 739
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:16 am
First Name: Don
Last Name: Allen
Location: Houston, TX
MTFCA Number: 50001

Re: KampKar for sale One of two originals

Post by RustyFords » Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:19 am

Wow Kevin....that's neat. I wonder where it is today.
1924 Touring


Luxford
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2019 6:30 pm
First Name: Peter
Last Name: Kable
Location: Australia
MTFCA Life Member: YES

Re: KampKar for sale One of two originals

Post by Luxford » Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:14 pm

As a lot of people have been interested in David's Kamper and I need to have a practice posting photo's here is one of David's Kamper on a trailer ready to go to the restorers workshop. As you can see it was pretty complete.
Attachments
davekamper.jpg

User avatar

VowellArt
Posts: 199
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:44 am
First Name: Martynn
Last Name: Vowell
Location: Sylmar, Commiefornia
MTFCA Number: 9908
Board Member Since: 2012
Contact:

Re: KampKar for sale One of two originals

Post by VowellArt » Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:06 pm

Nice, really nice. Would really like to see the inside bracket for the cross spars though and examine the tent support poles (they're 3 pieces, with hinges on both ends of the middle piece, so they can fold, then you roll the tent up round them and stow it inside the body tied at the top), to see if they used Soss Invisibles or if they're something completely different. And if I ever get my grubby paws on a nice restored 1922 running chassis or unrestored non running one for that matter), this is exactly what I'll put on it too (wanted one of those since I saw Peter's). But 75K? :shock: Nope, not me..besides I prefer building than owning anything original anyway. 8-)
Fun never quits!


Luxford
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2019 6:30 pm
First Name: Peter
Last Name: Kable
Location: Australia
MTFCA Life Member: YES

Re: KampKar for sale One of two originals

Post by Luxford » Fri Jun 07, 2019 1:12 am

Martynn,
Don't know if this shot helps only one I have on file.
Not sure exactly what you mean by the inside bracket for the cross spars?
and what is a soss invisibles?
Attachments
IMGP2045.JPG

User avatar

VowellArt
Posts: 199
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:44 am
First Name: Martynn
Last Name: Vowell
Location: Sylmar, Commiefornia
MTFCA Number: 9908
Board Member Since: 2012
Contact:

Re: KampKar for sale One of two originals

Post by VowellArt » Fri Jun 07, 2019 3:28 am

There are 4 large cross spars, that bolt to the sides and about 4 thin cross spars that the top slants a nailed to. You can see the black bracket on the thin spars, but to know their size and dimensions I'd need to see them really up close.

KampKar5.jpg
This is a Soss Invisible Hinge, they're mostly used in piano's for fallboard hinges, but they do come in all sorts of sizes, some of them about the diameter of that of a pencil.
Soss.jpg
Fun never quits!


Luxford
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2019 6:30 pm
First Name: Peter
Last Name: Kable
Location: Australia
MTFCA Life Member: YES

Re: KampKar for sale One of two originals

Post by Luxford » Fri Jun 07, 2019 4:39 am

I will take some photo's in the morning for you Martynn,


Luxford
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2019 6:30 pm
First Name: Peter
Last Name: Kable
Location: Australia
MTFCA Life Member: YES

Re: KampKar for sale One of two originals

Post by Luxford » Fri Jun 07, 2019 8:10 pm

Martynn,
Here are the photo's

Bit hard to get a clear shot at the bracket so I have added a drawing.
Also the tent pole, just a normal hinge, and a press stud holds the arm when folded.
Attachments
close up 01.jpg
bracket clip.jpg
bracket 01.jpg

Post Reply Previous topicNext topic