MTFCA Forum

I was talking to a fellow today who has double T truck and in conversation I asked what it would run and was told that he could do 40. That can't be right, can it? He said that it has a 2 speed accessory transmission and a stock TT differential. I thought that 25 mph would be a high estimate. Just curious. Thanks and God bless.

My former all stock '25 TT chemical wagon was lucky to top out at 18 mph. Others results may vary, but I bet pretty similar.

One was at the 100 year anniversary from Texas that they drove to Richmond IN. & drove it around 50-55 mph. The young guy did have auxiliary transmission & rear axle I believe. Did I mention he had AC too. Yes it was a T model Engine.

I have my Gramps' '24 TT C-Cab Express Box with a 3 speed Warford & high speed Ruckstell - I've been clocked at 37 mph downhill w/tailwind !

I think 13-18 mph is about right for stock...maybe 22 wound out.

I have a High Speed gear swap planned and a warford waiting for mine. With my rebuilt, not so stock motor...I should be able to keep up at 55+.

Standard ~7:1 ratio: 15 mph (according to Ford)
Optional ~5:1 high-speed ratio: 22 mph (according to Ford)
Yes, I know there are decimal remainders to those ratios, but they aren't significant)
High-speed ratio with overdrive aux accessory transmission: 35 - 55 mph, depending on transmission maker's overdrive ratio.

Back in the day my Great Uncle got his going really fast. My Dad was a teenager riding with him and my Great Uncle missed the down shift on and auxiliary straight cut teeth transmission. [There's a reason the signs pm steep descents even today say "Trucks use lower gear" He couldn't get it back in the higher gear and the were gaining speed as they continued down the incline. Fortunately the road continued straight ahead and it slowed down once it leveled off. And there were no other vehicles, children or cows that they had to dodge or slow down for.

Remember you have the same 1 inch wide brake band [1 1/2 inch wide on the improved models] on the transmission to stop a much heavier vehicle.

Several of the aftermarket products were heads for truck engines to give them more pulling power. As well as auxiliary transmission that gave them a lower gear ratio for pulling loaded and a higher gear ratio when the were coming back empty. And of course with the proper gearing they could pull the same empty truck faster.

There used to be a Ton Truck that liked to run in the "Long Beach Model T Club's Signal Hill Climb"
It was never the fastest vehicle up the hill. See photo of a C-cab on the hill at: https://www.lb908.com/post/long-beach-m ... hill-climb

The old saying is still true, "Speed costs money. How fast do you want to go?"

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off

My 23 TT has chicago 3 speed and high speed gear set in rear axle with a very stock engine. I had it to 42mph on a flat run once just to see what it could do. And only once.

I’ve owned my 1924 TT farm grain truck since 1968. It is a stock TT with the addition of a Ruckstell two speed rear axle. When I took possession of it it had the 7-1 rear axle gears, and it was slow. The 18 mph others have mentioned is about right. In 1973 I found and installed the optional Ford 5 1/6 to 1 high speed rear axle gears. It made a big difference in the performance of the truck, and it’s cruising speed increased to 24 mph. Still, that’s pretty marginal on today’s roads which are dominated by drivers who do not understand the speed limitations of a TT.

Respectfully Submitted,

Trent Boggess

JTT3 wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 03, 2024 7:48 pm

One was at the 100 year anniversary from Texas that they drove to Richmond IN. & drove it around 50-55 mph. The young guy did have auxiliary transmission & rear axle I believe. Did I mention he had AC too. Yes it was a T model Engine.

I'm friends with the person who owns that TT from Texas. It has an overhead valve conversion, auxiliary transmission, TT Ruckstell with the higher speed gears, air conditioning, and tows a 1920s semi trailer. I think the trailer has brakes. It can get moving. You can see a picture here from the San Antonio club's website: https://www.samodelt.com/images/registr ... cordes.jpg
He also has a TT wrecker with a well built T motor (no overhead), auxiliary transmission, and TT Ruckstell that runs out to 35 or 40. I got to ride in that truck at the 2017 Texas T Party early one morning when we ran out to a local's place and picked up some parts. Picture of that truck here too: https://www.samodelt.com/images/registr ... cordes.jpg

An auxiliary transmission or a 2 speed or three speed transmission or a Ruckstell may get you to your destination quicker, but it will not help with top speed unless it is an OVRERDRIVE transmission. No overdrive, no taller diff ratio, no speed advantage.

Allan from down under.

JTT3 wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 03, 2024 7:48 pm

One was at the 100 year anniversary from Texas that they drove to Richmond IN. & drove it around 50-55 mph. The young guy did have auxiliary transmission & rear axle I believe. Did I mention he had AC too. Yes it was a T model Engine.

You HAVE to be talking about Jeff Cordes. His TT has a T engine that has got to be modified somewhat, although I don't think it has an overhead. It does have a KC Warford with special gearing for a TT, and a TT high speed rear axle, and yes, it may be the world's fastest TT with a stock engine. At one time, he had a wrecker boom on it.

There you go Terry. The KC Warford is a three speed affair with an OVERDRIVE on top gear. I noticed that Layne offer a special transmission for TT's. Perhaps the overdrive ratio for that particular transmission is even taller than the one used on cars.

Allan from down under.

Terry I think you’re right on the name, as I recall he was a full bodied guy and I was wondering how comfortable would it have been to be in that TT CAB for such a long trip. I can hardly stand driving my TT for a few minutes. I’ve even considered making the cab an extended cab. The picture of that trailer confirmed that was the T at Richmond. He was at the airport gathering and I was trying to speak with him but my 9 yr old daughter was about to go for a ride in the early airplane that was there. Best John

With 7:1 gears, you will run out of RPM at around 18 to 20 MPH. With high speed gears or auxiliary gears, you'll run out of power at much over 20 to 25 MPH.
What kind of body a TT is carrying directly affects top speed once you get over about 15 to 20 MPH. Wind drag is a bigger factor than weight on level ground. Both weight and wind drag come into play on inclines.
If you have a high profile body that catches a lot of wind, you will need a lot more than 20 HP to go over 25 to 30 MPH ...unless you have a stiff tailwind. The TT driveline, wheels and tires add considerable friction and drag compared to a regular T on high pressure tires.

Yes wind drag I have.

How much is cut off
of the drive shaft for a new Warford?

The narrow bed structure on Mr. Lander's truck would probably help reduce drag at higher speeds, since it does not add significant frontal area.

The narrow bed structure on Mr. Lander's truck would probably help reduce drag at higher speeds, since it does not add significant frontal area.

A wide bed and a tall cab would add drag at speeds above 15-20 MPH, or heading into the wind.

tom_strickling wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 04, 2024 12:33 pm

How much is cut off
of the drive shaft for a new Warford?

Tom, I am pretty sure that all KC Warfords are like original aluminum case Warfords, in that 12" must be removed from the driveshaft and radius rods shortened accordingly.

Followed a friend and his TT at a bit over 50 mph. High speed gears in a TT Ruckstell and an old style Warford. Z head, stipe cam, modern carb. It slowed on hills of course but surprised a bunch of folks on level ground.

25 to 28 is a nice cruzing speed in mine. I had 28 friends in it going for icecream and 20 mph was a comfortable speed even with hills.

The TIME MACHINE has a high speed rear end and a TwinHigh Hi-Lo auxilliary transmission with 33% overdrive. I can cruise all day at 30-32. I have had it easily hit 42 on a looong slight downhill grade on an empty back highway.

Other than the TwinHigh, my TT engine and driveline are stock.

I have a 1924 Model TT stake truck, with a standard engine, 3 speed Muncie with reverse, and a 2 speed Hall Scott rear end with the High Speed 5 to 1 gear set. I will do 40 mph in it and that is fast enough for me. Here is some information on shortening the drive shaft, torque tubes, and radius rods.


https://www.mtfca.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?t=25862

Just saw this thread ....

My TT came to me as a standard "farm gears" sort of truck, shaking itself apart
in the high teens range.

An engine rebuild with a careful balance, C-race cam, Z-Head, Scat crank, and
a high flow carb (have used several), and express gears out back have given me
run-out-of-power top speed of right about 50, and comfortable cruising at 35-40
all day long. I have a Lincoln 3-speed that should give me 30% gearing, which the
math says will make a top speed around 65.

Making speed is one thing. Stopping a TT at those speeds in an emergency is another !

ModelTWoods wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 04, 2024 4:21 pm

tom_strickling wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 04, 2024 12:33 pm

How much is cut off
of the drive shaft for a new Warford?

Tom, I am pretty sure that all KC Warfords are like original aluminum case Warfords, in that 12" must be removed from the driveshaft and radius rods shortened accordingly.

For a standard Car Warford (or TT warford with no ujoint) it's 12"

A TT warford w/ujoint is 16"

Burger in Spokane wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 06, 2024 12:36 am

Just saw this thread ....

My TT came to me as a standard "farm gears" sort of truck, shaking itself apart
in the high teens range.

An engine rebuild with a careful balance, C-race cam, Z-Head, Scat crank, and
a high flow carb (have used several), and express gears out back have given me
run-out-of-power top speed of right about 50, and comfortable cruising at 35-40
all day long. I have a Lincoln 3-speed that should give me 30% gearing, which the
math says will make a top speed around 65.

Making speed is one thing. Stopping a TT at those speeds in an emergency is another !


26 2016 aug 25 1.jpg

This is what I'm aiming for with mine..

I guess the real question when driving a TT with an auxiliary overdrive gear box (like above posters say, standard you are looking around 20 mph or less flat out) is really How Brave Are You?

My TT tops out over 45 - I used to have dark hair, then drove 45, now I am grey....(although that was downhill on a shingle (gravel chip) road with the tail out round corners....and no, I didn't miss any gears that time).

Realistically, 30 mph is about the limit for me to be 'comfortable', i.e. not shaken, stirred and well mixed, and to have some room to stop.

As Hap mentioned, room to stop is pretty much the rule to drive by, and missing a change in the aux box on a down hill stretch (umm maybe I dun that too?) can be, well, challenging..!

If I wanted extra speed from a TT, I would want better brakes, too.

Irresponsible driving, by exceeding speed for conditions (this includes
driving beyond emergent braking needs) is just begging for a wrecked
T or TT (or any car, really). Fortunately, for me, .... and I live where
I do BECAUSE of this, ..... I have a zillion miles of open, unobstructed
roads upon which to drive at speeds where I have no traffic concerns
and visibility is such that surprises just aren't going to happen. This is
where I can open 'er up and fly a bit. Around town and in areas where
there is concern for stunt drivers and esrwhile idiots abounding, I keep
things at a speed appropriate for the conditions of my TT and the road
around me. Afterall, the main objective is to NOT wreck the truck, WAY
more importantly than zooming about.

Yes, some of us enjoy the privilege of living where there are hundreds of miles of great Model T (or Model TT) roads. I was born in Los Angeles County and raised in L. A. traffic, so it doesn't scare me. But it has reached the point where I much prefer living in a comparatively remote location that some folks from the coasts consider flat and boring, and beyond the pale of civilization.

Southern California would have been great between about 1915 and 1930....

Steve Jelf wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 08, 2024 11:31 am

Yes, some of us enjoy the privilege of living where there are hundreds of miles of great Model T (or Model TT) roads. I was born in Los Angeles County and raised in L. A. traffic, so it doesn't scare me. But it has reached the point where I much prefer living in a comparatively remote location that some folks from the coasts consider flat and boring, and beyond the pale of civilization.


IMG_4095 copy.JPG

==================================


After 30 years in the urban swamp of Seattle, and a couple wing-ding
wrecks involving some of Seattle's many amateur stunt drivers, I came
to question why I lived in a place that was so utterly awful, as it related
to everything I enjoy in life. I concluded that the value of life experience
was far more meaningful than anything the swamp had to offer, sold off
my assets there, and moved to heaven. We all make choices in life. I chose
to prioritize LIVING over everything else, as dull at that might seem to many.
For me, it was a choice and a commitment to live what years I had left right.
One of the better decisions I ever made. But then again, I have always been
what hipsters and trendy folks would call a "dull man". In fact, I am a proud
member of the Dull Men's Club. From finding deep satisfaction in fine concrete
work to puttering in the shop, I am THAT GUY.

"There used to be a Ton Truck that liked to run in the "Long Beach Model T Club's Signal Hill Climb"
It was never the fastest vehicle up the hill. See photo of a C-cab on the hill at: https://www.lb908.com/post/long-beach-m ... hill-climb

The TT on the hill at Long Beach was mine at the time. It had a Langbein auxiliary Transmission. Originally it was a 2:1 under. During restoration and rebuild of the gear box I flipped the gear set internally making it 2:1 over. I squeezed 8:00x20 tires onto the rear rims. I could go down the road 40mph with ease. It had auxiliary outside brakes. I sold it in 1969. I often wonder who has it now.

Burger in Spokane wrote: ↑

Tue Apr 09, 2024 1:33 am

Steve Jelf wrote: ↑

Mon Apr 08, 2024 11:31 am

Yes, some of us enjoy the privilege of living where there are hundreds of miles of great Model T (or Model TT) roads. I was born in Los Angeles County and raised in L. A. traffic, so it doesn't scare me. But it has reached the point where I much prefer living in a comparatively remote location that some folks from the coasts consider flat and boring, and beyond the pale of civilization.


IMG_4095 copy.JPG

==================================


After 30 years in the urban swamp of Seattle, and a couple wing-ding
wrecks involving some of Seattle's many amateur stunt drivers, I came
to question why I lived in a place that was so utterly awful, as it related
to everything I enjoy in life. I concluded that the value of life experience
was far more meaningful than anything the swamp had to offer, sold off
my assets there, and moved to heaven. We all make choices in life. I chose
to prioritize LIVING over everything else, as dull at that might seem to many.
For me, it was a choice and a commitment to live what years I had left right.
One of the better decisions I ever made. But then again, I have always been
what hipsters and trendy folks would call a "dull man". In fact, I am a proud
member of the Dull Men's Club. From finding deep satisfaction in fine concrete
work to puttering in the shop, I am THAT GUY.


fullsizeoutput_c1e.jpeg

Well said Brent! Good advice to live by.

When I realized that moving to a very remote location and buying a TT will add at least 10 years to my life, I immediately bought (2) more TT’s!

ModelTWoods wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 04, 2024 4:21 pm

tom_strickling wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 04, 2024 12:33 pm

How much is cut off
of the drive shaft for a new Warford?

Tom, I am pretty sure that all KC Warfords are like original aluminum case Warfords, in that 12" must be removed from the driveshaft and radius rods shortened accordingly.

Warford made a cast iron case for the TT, vs the aluminum case for the car.
Somewhere buried in my archives I have an original brochure for the TT Warford, detailing all the modifications required/specs for the torque tube, driveshaft and radius rods. Back in the 80's I used to sell copies by mail advertising in MTFCA mag.

I never actually installed mine as I was never able to procure spare axle parts (cut one set, leave one set stock)

Somewhere buried in my archives I have an original brochure for the TT Warford, detailing all the modifications required/specs for the torque tube, driveshaft and radius rods.

Cimorelli has that Warford TT brochure: https://www.cimorelli.com/mtdl/unknown-year/default.htm which shows the modifications required and measurements needed to adapt the torque tube, driveshaft and radius rods.

A Whiteman wrote: ↑

Thu May 30, 2024 6:55 am

Somewhere buried in my archives I have an original brochure for the TT Warford, detailing all the modifications required/specs for the torque tube, driveshaft and radius rods.

Cimorelli has that Warford TT brochure: https://www.cimorelli.com/mtdl/unknown-year/default.htm

The information on this site under "auxiliary transmissions" for Warford does not provide the same extent of detail as the Warford manufacturer brochure (specific for the TT cast iron case application) provides.
Guess I may have to dig it up not finding what I have referenced anywhere.

I have found if you are going to make any real power and have an overdrive in your TT you should add a bearing in the driveshaft torque tube. The added rpm and power will make the driveshaft wobble and vibrate. Ford added a bearing support on the V8 cars starting in 1937 for the same reason. Before 37 Ford used a tubular driveshaft that didn't wobble. The TT driveshaft was not a balanced shaft. It was rough forged with the ends machined only.

Another option for a full length d.s. is to drill & tap the torque tube for 3 equidistant brass bolts to act as a "steady rest" just like on your lathe !

I tried the 3 brass screw thing. It didn't work. TT driveshafts need to have a machined area for it to possibly work. Most TT driveshafts are machined off center because it was cheap and fast and only spinning 1600 rpm max with 20 hp.