MTFCA Forum

Did 1922/1923 Canadian Centerdoors have cowl oil side lights and oil tail lights?

I would think not.

Jay,

Bottom Line Up Front: Current available documentation indicates that a 1920-1923 Canadian closed car that was equipped with a starter would NOT have oil side lamps or an oil tail lamp from the factory. Lots of restorers have added those to cars that came with a starter because they liked the looks.

Additional details:

If it was a USA produced car there is lots of information that clarifies all the USA produced closed cars starting with the 1919 Model year and later were equipped from the factory with a starter & lighting along with demountable rims. And there is clear documentation for USA produced cars that “IF” they were equipped with an electrical starter they did NOT have kerosene tail and side lamps.

But we do not have nearly as much documentation on the non-USA produced Model Ts. For the 1920 USA produced Model T, “The Model T Ford Club International Seventh Edition Judging Guidelines has 8 pages of information on the USA produce 1920 Model T. But they only have 3 pages about the Canadian produce 1920 Model T. For 1920 and later Canadian Model T’s they comment that if they have the electric starting equipment, they did not come from the factory with oil side lamps and oil taillamp. That applies to open as well as closed cars.

To see additional information on a very original condition Canadian Centerdoor please see the postings at:

Part 1: Model T Ford Forum: A Time Warp - Center Door off the road and on blocks since 1930 (mtfca.com)

Part 2 update: http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/25 ... 1349255577

It clearly is a starter equipped car (voltage meter, and starter are visible in some photos). I don’t recall ever seeing a good photo of the front of the car. But one photo near the end of the posting has the door open and if there had been an oil side lamp there, I believe it would have been visible. But if there had been one there and the bracket and lamp had previously been removed, that angle of the photo would not have shown the holes where the bracket would have been.

Note Ford of Canada supplied the Fords to New Zealand where that car was located.

If you or anyone else would like a free copy of the Kevin “Bill” Mowle’s article “Only in Canada – Eh?” Drop me an e-mail with your address and I will forward a copy to you. The club allows us to do that to help promote our hobby. The article shows many of the unique items the Canadian open Fords had in the early 1920s. It was published in the Sep-Oct 1988 "The Vintage Ford."

While looking around I ran across where I had saved a May 1923 Ford Service bulletin (Probably for “The Gunny’s website). I sort of doubt they always ended on 000 or 500 but that is how they are listed.
Also the posting at: https://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/2 ... 81372.html has a listing of Canadian Engine Serial numbers from the Ford of Canada Archives courtesy of Steve Miller.

Good luck with your car.

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off

Hi Jay, the picture below is a late 23 /early 24 original 'time warp' Canadian built center door. No cowl lights at all and electric tail lights.

I have many pictures of details if they are of use to you.

Kind regards
Adrian

Adrian,

Yes, that Centerdoor is the same car I posted the links to from the 2012 forum where you posted some photos about the car. I don’t know if Jay is interested in additional photos at this time, but I know I am.

So far, I know of only 2 Model Ts that continued the earlier 1922 style closed car body sytle but were mated to the high radiator & high cowl that was typical of the 1924 model cars. One is the Centerdoor that you kindly posted photos of. The other is a Suicide door coupe with the high cowl, high radiator and high hood and a long known history. One photo of that coupe is shown at: https://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/8 ... 1261044115 it is the second coupe photo at that location and is shown parked part way out of the garage.

If only those cars could talk….. I wonder if they were a one off or if 100s or 1000s of them were produced by Ford of Canada. One theory of mine (that would be a guess) is the body had been ordered but not completed or delivered. And in the meantime, Ford of Canada had switched to the high cowl & high radiator assembly lines. And so the last body or few bodes still remaining to be completed were fitted with the high cowl to mate with the current production line high radiator, valance below the radiator, front fenders with the bent over section to “flow” into the radiator valance etc. Well, I think that is more plausible than the aliens ordered a special body for their T. But it maybe just as far fetched.

Back to the original poster --- Jay.

If you post some photos of the Centerdoor and ask some more questions folks can hopefully help you answer some of those questions. If you look at the 2nd photo Adrian posted above you can see that car appears to have the window latches / small lever that fits in a slotted track to hold the door windows open.

I lost that photo and need to stop for the night.

And one of the photos at the link posted above and reposted here http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/25 ... 1349255577

Clearly shows the slotted track the levers would latch into.


(For USA Centerdoors the door window and front side windows had those the last year or so while the back side windows continued to use a strap to hold the window in the desired position.)

Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off