MTFCA Forum

New owner of a 1912 Model T with later hogshead and starter. See the photo below noting the exposed portion of the clutch shaft coming out of the hogshead as indicated by the gray pen in the photo. Aout 1/2 " of shafting is exposed. The problem is that the linkage coming off the clutch pedal is interfering with the side of the cylindrical "can" that houses the starter bendix. A previous owner actually dented in the "can" to provide clearance for the linkage. It resulted in cracking the "can" developing an oil leak. What is the suggested fix? I do not want to pull the engine at this point given upcoming tour season.
Suggestions?

I can't get the photo to copy from my pictures file using the landscape button! What is the process, dragging and dropping does not appear to work either.

No “photo below”. Try again. We wanna help…

George see my edited note to my initial post.

Hi there, welcome to hobby!

The 'can' is called the 'Bendix Cover'. It covers the starter bendix drive.

A good option may be to remove the bendix cover (it is secured with screws around its edge) and then solder the crack to seal it.

When replacing the cover clean the surfaces and a light wipe of sealant would not go amiss.

Have a look at Martynn Vowell's great diagrams here on the 'gallery' section. This one shows the bendix cover and assembly: app.php/gallery/image/76

If I recall, the low pedal link is different for starter cars, maybe your car still has its 1912 low pedal. The link on early pedals can be bent to achieve the required clearance.

https://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/5 ... 1460164622

This thread may help with posting photos: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=30629


See also this thread with pictures showing what the problem is: https://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/5 ... 1433849292

The subject photo Got it thanks for the help!

Looks like an earlier pedal, curious what does the spring do on the break pedal? The bendix cover looks like it’s not centered too.

Does anyone have a detailed photo of how that should look for a T with a starter showing the relative alignment of the linkages?
I do have a replacement bendix cover coming but really do not want to dent in the side of the cover to create space for the linkages.

I hope this is the picture you want. The bendix cover is not being used, but the pedal is correct for a starter motor.

Thanks, that does help. It appears that the same amount of exposed shaft exists in your picture but you do not have a starter and therefore just a plate not the bendix cover. From the picture kit appears that if you had the starter and the bendix cover you could have the same issue as I am struggling with.

49willard wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 17, 2024 4:54 pm

New owner of a 1912 Model T with later hogshead and starter. See the photo below noting the exposed portion of the clutch shaft coming out of the hogshead as indicated by the gray pen in the photo. Aout 1/2 " of shafting is exposed. The problem is that the linkage coming off the clutch pedal is interfering with the side of the cylindrical "can" that houses the starter bendix. A previous owner actually dented in the "can" to provide clearance for the linkage. It resulted in cracking the "can" developing an oil leak. What is the suggested fix? I do not want to pull the engine at this point given upcoming tour season.
Suggestions?

I can't get the photo to copy from my pictures file using the landscape button! What is the process, dragging and dropping does not appear to work either.

Its always difficult to know if a "new owner of a model T year", means never had one or added another to the fleet. I see you joined the Forum in earlier this year. Had you or a friend checked out the car to confirm its originality or what substitutions were made. For example it may be a complete 1912 but the engine and transmission are of a later year. The previous owner may have done several modifications.

As you may know adding a starter to a 1912 engine/transmission, need to confirm that's what you have, requires more than swapping the hogs head. A picture of the other side of the hogs head, the band area inside and the top (to see the magneto area); all to see if its 1919-25 or 1926-27 or a mix

As CudaMan alluded to you may have the wrong shaft.

The non-starter low pedal is different than a starter equipped pedal - you can see in the last photo posted that the starter pedal has a bend to the right for the linkage to clear the can !

It is actually the sideways motion of the shaft that engages the brake bands that make low, reverse, and the brake itself work! The brake itself and reverse move outward, so the shaft required for the motion is inside the housing. The low band (on left hand driven cars) move sideways from the outside, so the exposed area of the shaft is essential for its operation!

Most likely a previous owner of your car used the brass era "C" pedal with its straight lever on the bottom, and tried to bend the lever a little bit, but not enough to actually clear the Bendix cover.
To keep the "C" pedal look on the car after adding the later starter, some people bend the original lever on a "C" pedal, which is sometimes a bit short for proper adjustment. Or they weld a "C" pedal replacement head onto a later clutch smooth pedal so that from above it looks good, but below it functions better. Sometimes a minor bend is necessary on the clutch "T" shaft to line up better when mixing and matching pedals and shafts

49willard wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 17, 2024 7:14 pm

Does anyone have a detailed photo of how that should look for a T with a starter showing the relative alignment of the linkages?
I do have a replacement bendix cover coming but really do not want to dent in the side of the cover to create space for the linkages.

Here is the comparison photo for you. Your low pedal is for non-starter car, (the one cut off, with the straight shaft) so it will impede on the Bendix cover of a later hogshead.

Some say you can bend that straight early one a bit for off-set, haven't tried that.




The proper thing is to replace the pedal with the later one, but that means removing the hogshead, and removing and re-riveting the low speed notch to the new pedal shaft. The replacement later angled pedal can be placed on a new shaft.

The engine is a 1912 engine and the original C pedal has been retained. Thanks for your input.
This is a picture of the trans. What does this tell us? Although originality is important to me I am a driver and not a show car guy. I am brand new to the Model T community but have been brass car touring for over 30 years. I just finally got a T!

DanTreace wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 17, 2024 9:02 pm

49willard wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 17, 2024 7:14 pm

Does anyone have a detailed photo of how that should look for a T with a starter showing the relative alignment of the linkages?
I do have a replacement bendix cover coming but really do not want to dent in the side of the cover to create space for the linkages.

Here is the comparison photo for you. Your low pedal is for non-starter car, (the one cut off, with the straight shaft) so it will impede on the Bendix cover of a later hogshead.

Some say you can bend that straight early one a bit for off-set, haven't tried that.



IMG_0987 (1213x1280).jpg



The proper thing is to replace the pedal with the later one, but that means removing the hogshead, and removing and re-riveting the low speed notch to the new pedal shaft. The replacement later angled pedal can be placed on a new shaft.



IMG_0854 (1280x960).jpgIMG_2772 (1280x960) (2).jpg

IMG_0623 (621x750) (455x550).jpg

Thanks for the photos. The comparison photo shows the difference. I assune tha the C pedal is a forging such that some heat and bending the short arm on the pedal is a possibility, true?

It can be bent but will be a bit shorter than the correct one.

You really can't see in my picture however the short arm of the pedal is already bent some. I think that I will try some heat and bend it a little more toward the middle of the car. This all started when I found out why the car "used" oil (per notes of the previous owner). It was leaking oil thru a crack in the bendix cover.

49willard wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 18, 2024 6:55 am

You really can't see in my picture however the short arm of the pedal is already bent some. I think that I will try some heat and bend it a little more toward the middle of the car. This all started when I found out why the car "used" oil (per notes of the previous owner). It was leaking oil thru a crack in the bendix cover.

Yes, that's the answer. A little more bend.
The end of the clutch connection already has the treatment. (Excess material removed above the cotter pin hole.) This is the deal when you use an early pedal set with a starter. It will work.

The low-speed connection is also in backwards - turn it around and bend the clutch arm a bit to gain more clearance.

Thanks to all for your posts and pictures. I now have a path to a fix