MTFCA Forum

My 1919 has a front end wobble. It was really bad when I first got the car, but I serviced the front axle pieces and adjusted the toe, which helped a lot. I have demountable wheels and noticed about 1/4" of runout this evening while packing the wheel bearings. Initially I thought I would remove the lug bolts and rotate the rim 90 degrees at a time to see if there was improvement, however the tire valve prevents this. Next I thought I would shim the rim away from the wheel by adding some washers to the bolts between the wheel and the rim. This proved to fix the issue by adding two washers at 12 o'clock and one each at 9 and 3 and no washer at 6. Basically I have no runout now. Most likely, the rim is meant to contact the wheel around the perimeter to distribute the load and the taper on the lug nut and rim is meant to provide some degree of centering. By shimming the rim away from the wheel, the lug bolts would act as the only load bearing. I didn't study how the demountable wheel parts interact, so maybe I'm over thinking it or not thinking about it enough.

Anyway, I'm sure other have dealt with wobbly wheels. What's the solution? And how foolish is my washer idea?

Thanks
Matt

Matt, on a good rim and felloe combination, the rim lug stands off the outer face of the felloe.The four rim bolts act to wedge the inside edge of the rim onto the inside edge of the felloe. This wedging effect is what provides the "drive" by jamming the rim on the wheel. Over the years. loose rim/felloe combinatios do wear and then the rim lugs may engage on the outer face of the felloe. This is what you have achieved by adding the washers. Now the job of the four wheel bolts is more crucial. They provide the "drive", and it is essential that they remain tight.

Personally, I would put up with a little runout, in favour of the correct engagement between the rim and the felloe.

Others may see it differently.

Allan from down under.

You need to be sure you have the correct rim on the right wheel. They are not all the same.

By shimming the rim away from the wheel, the lug bolts would act as the only load bearing.

The 4 lugs are not meant to bear the weight of the car. What you did with the washers may have trued the rim but it's not correct and may not even be safe. The lugs are only meant to draw the rim up snug against the wedge/taper at the inside edge of the felloe. It's the tapered flange that supports the weight of the car. As others mentioned, the lugs are not supposed to be tight against the face of the felloe. If they are, it's either due to overtightening or due to the taper of the felloe being damaged by driving/rolling the car without a rim on it, thereby flattening out the tapered flange, which allows the rim to slide on too far. Carefully tightening each of the 4 lug nuts usually allows you to adjust out the runout of the rim. All of this assumes you have the correct rims for your wheels, as Dan mentions.

Check the tightness of the 6 hub nuts with the wheels elevated.

I've almost never seen a T with wood-spoked wheels that are absolutely true. 1/4 inch doesn't seem that bad to me. I've swapped out wheels and rims trying to get truer running wheels and still have a little wiggle. It'll drive you nuts if you let it

Tim, the New Zealander who rebuilds wheels for me does a great job. No run-out in his wheels. The answer lies in the fact that he bores the hole and faces the spokes on a big old lathe after the wheel is assembled.
I often wonder how true you can get wheels when you have to use a press to get them together. Seems to me that what you get is what get, and there is not a lot you can do about it.

Allan from down under

Matt,
Yesterday I was working on trying to get the front wheels on my ‘24 Touring to run a little truer and I too had shimmed with washers, however I thought that is not the perfect way to do this. I found by simply resetting the rim to the felloe, pay close attention to how you tighten the lugs. I needed no shims on the right side and got the runout down to 3/16 inch. On the left side I got a little less by using only one shim on one lug. I would say the fewer shims the better. A gentleman on the Manhattan Ks. tour last summer told me of this trick. But like I said, it is a get by fix but not the best fix. I wonder how many wheels were perfect when these cars were new. Good luck & enjoy your car!

Harvey's fix wprks even better on loose lug wheels, where the rim wedges on the outside land on the felloe. There is much more scope for adjustment with the loose lugs.

Allan from down under.

Apis, I don’t have an illustration of the variation of wheels but attached is an illustration of the rims & maker. I think, if memory serves me correctly, 3 of 5 may interchange 2 definitely do not.