MTFCA Forum

My inherited 1922 T uses a distributer instead of conventional coils. It has a new 12V battery. The engine was started and was running for 10 minutes. It sounded good. THEN IT QUIT. No unusual noise was heard. After many attempts, the engine would not start. The starter spun properly; the fan rotated accordingly. The gas line shut off valves were open. The carburetor was replaced, the coil was replaced, the inline fuse did not open, no breaches in wiring and connections, the distributer rotor and points are new, the distributer shaft rotates correctly. The new spark plugs were removed and were dry of excess gas. Hand cranking shows the pistons move up and down as they should. I have not removed the head nor the valve side cover. I have a remote idea on a suspected cause (which I want to mentally deny because of cost). I thought to humbly solicit comments from more experienced T'ers as to the cause of the no start non running problem might be. Thank you in advance.

Is your wiring new or old? Does it have a main fuse? Might need to rewire with new harnesses. Since all the wiring goes through the switch, have you checked that out? Switch contacts sometimes get gummed up and lose contact. Might need to be cleaned and contacts re-established. I was not sure what kind of switch you had, so I sent drawings of all the 1922’s. Good luck. Jim Patrick

Personally, I always start with the basics. The issue is either fuel, air or spark. Air is a given on a T so its either fuel or spark. Get some starting fluid (ether) and spray it in the carb throat and see if it fires. If it does its a fuel issue, if it doesn't you have a spark issue.

Steve

Could be a stopped up, or stuck needle valve, or clogged fuel filter screen.

This will take two people to do. One person crank the engine with the ignition switch on and the other take a screw driver put the end of the driver on the head and hold the driver about 1/16" from the top connection of the spark plug. If it sparks, you have ignition. If not no ignition. I once had a De Soto which had a distributor and coil. The car would start up and run fine but go a block or two and quit. It wouldn't start. After it cooled off it would start again. The car was a total pile of junk. So I took off all the parts which would fit a Plymouth of the same year and hauled the De soto to the junk yard. Later I was working on the Plymouth and broke off one of the connections for the low voltage on the coil. Then I put the De Soto coil on the Plymouth and went a couple blocks and it quit! So you could even have a bad coil or condensor or bad points. Even the rotor and cap can go bad.
On one of my T's I would try to start it and it wouldn't start. It wouldn't even drip gas if I choked it for about 8 cranks. But I got a good stream of gas out of the petcock at the bottom of the carb. Then I found the choke was stuck by old gas which hardened and the choke was not closing. Well I forced it closed and got the engine running but I couldn't get it to run smoothly. Finally worked on the valve and sprayed some lock graphite spray on the shaft. It now works freely and will start right up and after a minute or so I can do the fine adjustment of the needle and works just fine. Anyway, it can be something you would never think of checking cause the problem. So you need to be sure no valves are sticking. Do a compression check for that. Then check the ignition as I posted above and the fuel system. You will eventually find out what is the problem.
Norm

1) fuel. Choke & spin the crank 2 or 3 times. If fuel snorfles out, you got fuel.
2) hand crank several revolutions. Consistent resistance in all 4 cyls? Good compression, no lost valve keeper pins.
3) pull the distributor cap. Does the rotor turn? A timing check may be in order to confirm the timing has not slipped.
4) with the distributor cap off. Do the points open & close when turning? gap about .018"
Set with the points closed by hand cranking. Turn on ign. With a screwdriver open the points several times. You should see & hear a spark.

speedytinc wrote: ↑

Sun May 05, 2024 2:33 pm

3) pull the distributor cap. Does the rotor turn? A timing check may be in order to confirm the timing has not slipped.
4) with the distributor cap off. Set with the points closed by hand cranking. Turn on ign. With a screwdriver open the points several times. You should see & hear a spark.

3) Please explain how timing slips.
4) Doing as described above should cause the ignition coil to fire. In addition to the process given, pull the coil wire from the center of the distributor cap and place the end of the coil wire near near ground. Then, when you manually operate the points, there should be a spark to ground from the coil wire.

Jerry VanOoteghem wrote: ↑

Sun May 05, 2024 3:49 pm

speedytinc wrote: ↑

Sun May 05, 2024 2:33 pm

3) pull the distributor cap. Does the rotor turn? A timing check may be in order to confirm the timing has not slipped.
4) with the distributor cap off. Set with the points closed by hand cranking. Turn on ign. With a screwdriver open the points several times. You should see & hear a spark.

3) Please explain how timing slips.
4) Doing as described above should cause the ignition coil to fire. In addition to the process given, pull the coil wire from the center of the distributor cap and place the end of the coil wire near near ground. Then, when you manually operate the points, there should be a spark to ground from the coil wire.

OP is running a dizzy. I have had experience with a southern supplier's unit where that did happen. The gear shaft had nothing to keep it in place. A simple set screw under the upper ball bearing did the trick.
Also the drive gear , if not keyed & the nut gets loose, can slip out of time. One of them units relied on cam nut pressure only.
Anyway, its an easy check.
Your description of pulling the coil wire from the cap & keeping it near the head is a better description than I provided. Thats where the hearing the spark crack happens I mentioned. It is easier on the coil to get that wire near ground.

speedytinc wrote: ↑

Sun May 05, 2024 5:05 pm

Jerry VanOoteghem wrote: ↑

Sun May 05, 2024 3:49 pm

speedytinc wrote: ↑

Sun May 05, 2024 2:33 pm

3) pull the distributor cap. Does the rotor turn? A timing check may be in order to confirm the timing has not slipped.
4) with the distributor cap off. Set with the points closed by hand cranking. Turn on ign. With a screwdriver open the points several times. You should see & hear a spark.

3) Please explain how timing slips.

OP is running a dizzy. I have had experience with a southern supplier's unit where that did happen. The gear shaft had nothing to keep it in place. A simple set screw under the upper ball bearing did the trick.
Also the drive gear , if not keyed & the nut gets loose, can slip out of time. One of them units relied on cam nut pressure only.

Hadn't thought of those possibilities. Thanks!

I just went through that problem on another T with a distributor and found not one, but three problems.

1. The manifolds to engine connection did not have rings and glands and a backfire or two had blown away the gasket material, so the engine was only sucking air.

2. The distributor turned the other way, so #2 and #3 plug wires were reversed.

3. The connection between the distributor and spark adjust rod was loose enough to let the distributor cam turn the distributor too far.

Henry's shaking his head in his coffin saying "why in the h-ll don't they leave MY system alone"?

"Henry's shaking his head in his coffin saying "why in the h-ll don't they leave MY system alone"?
"Millions of people have gotten along with the Model T as it was designed, and as it was sold 15,000,000+ times. But some are happy to accept "upgrades" that aren't."

I fully understand your lectures BUT I inherited this T and didn't want to restore to conventional coils, timer, 6volt, etc. Also I wasn't sure and don't care if the magneto is in working order. I decided to continue the use of its 12V altenator. Seems the problem is in the distributer and/or the intake valves. Eventually I will find the root cause and it will be fixed.

No problem Jay...I was just in a teasing mood this morning! You're probly right tho...something in the dizzy likely.

Tim, did you say you were feeling a little dizzy? Did you need to see Dr Mize?

"Tim, did you say you were feeling a little dizzy? Did you need to see Dr Mize?"
I'm the one who is dizzy

I am sure Dr Mize can help you, too.