MTFCA Forum

I have been working the last several months restoring a KR Wilson pan jig. I want to say thanks to Bill Howell for the gift of the pan jig. It is very much appreciated. It was in rough shape, but I ended up with something better than the homemade one I had started to build. This pan jig was missing all the attachments and had a very hard life as a work table/anvil/welding table. It had aprox a .070 thousand twist to the top as well as a low place from years of beating and use as a welding table. The Blanchard grinders were able to install shims and re-mill the bottom side of the table so that when they ground the top side, aprox .035 to .040 was removed from opposite corners and not the entire .070 from just one corner. I only removed as little as possible to give a flat surface with no twist and a smooth surface where the lip of the pan sits. The pits that I left, in no way affect the use of the jig and left more of the "hard surface" thickness in place.

Some folks wonder why these jigs cost so much, Even with getting the pan jig as a gift from Bill, I still have almost 1000.00 in the restoration not counting anything for my time. But we now have another pan jig in Arkansas for model T folks to use. This jig is offered to use for free, by any model T guy who wants to bring their pan here to straighten. Ill watch, and you do the work. .... .

After I installed the "fixtures" but before I installed the "taper pins" to lock the fixtures final settings. I straightened my pan that Im using on the "speedster project" Then to "test" my layout, machining, and calibration of the fixtures, I took my freshly straightened pan to Bills shop and tested it on his two pan jigs. My pan fit all three pan jigs. The test was a good test of all three pan jigs, If all three fit OK then they must be OK. ...

For the final test of my pan, I installed the "Sherman" deep sump pan on my pan, just to make sure everything stayed OK. All is good so now back to the engine build and finally get the speedster project finished.

Here are some random pics of the pan jig restoration ...

Very nice! Now all you need are a couple of K R Wilson decals.

Look's wonderful. I would love to have that! Great job

Great job Donnie. The Howes were kind enough to allow me to straighten my pan on their jig and I thank them for the help. It's great to have another jig here in Arkansas.

Gorgeous, Donnie!

Beautiful job I have to say!
What a contrast with the nice looking pan jig and the cleaned up pan with the original brazing job Ford put on at the factory!
When I cleaned up my first T pan years and years ago I still remember looking at the brazing job and thinking I would use a grinder or file to try to cleanup the mess.

A friend later told me it was a factory job and that’s the way they looked. Nowadays I guess it would be called a mark of character!

Nice work, Donnie! It looks great!

Very nice job, Donnie. Thanks for the “Thanks!’

If Donnie’s jig is tied up, mine are available for your use.

Nice work. My KRW pan jig was also abused as a welding bench after the Ford dealer in Lordsburg, New Mexico gave it to one of their mechanics in the 40’s when model T’s were not coming in anymore. I had to mill the surface to restore it. That takes a big mill. I used a Storm Vulcan block master with a sixteen in carbide broach.

Thanks for the comments. The Blanchard grinder had a capacity of 96 inches long with an accuracy of .001 in 96 inches. The pan jig is about 36 inches long. So my top surface should be within less than a 1/2 thou. tolerance.

I plan on building a table top/cover to place on top of the pan jig. That way I can use it as a work surface for other things. I have a small shop, so space is at a premium. Things need to have a dual use.

I have wanted a pan jig for years, It really makes fixing the pans a much easier job. They are one of the hardest T tools to find. The transmission drum reaming fixture is probably the only thing harder to find. So now I'm looking for a drum reaming fixture.

Sweet!!! Thanks for the follow up. As always Donnie, You take things to a whole new level.

Like your report in restoring model T jig.I just bougth one that needs tons of work, I'd like to restore it to original,I have lots of work for it. I'm looking for much needed input if U don't mind and from any one else. Not one pin hole is usable,they are chipped & broken out. Also someone tried drilling all the pan holes, there in same shape. Do you have a good repair for the damaged holes? What did U use for a blue print of the holes?

Hi Ron,
Stan Howe in Helena. I've heard your name a few times but haven't met you as far as I know.

If you get down this way, give me a shout. I have a lot of T stuff, some in town and some out in the country.

That pan jig will be a challenge.

949 3448

Hi Ron,
I live about 3 hours from you. I have a complete pan jig with the pins all in there original places. You are more than welcome to come and take all the measurements you would like.
I would spend some time trying to free up what pins you can with AeroKroil. Expensive, but amazing stuff. Then I think all you can do is weld up the holes that are screwed up, surface and drill new holes.
I can take those measurements for you, given the amount of time and labor involved in getting to the point of drilling new holes, especially if you have to re-drill most of them, I don't want to be the guy screws up the measurements. I will do it if you can't come down here, just makes very nervous.
Someone on the forum may have a blue print of a Model T pan for hole spacing. If you can salvage three or four good holes on the jig the others should be fairly easy to place.

I believe you can locate pin holes with a 26-27 block and hogshead bolted together.

That sure turned out swell. I hope one day I will find one at an estate sale or farm auction and buy it for $5 because nobody knows what it is. I can dream, anyway.

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StanHowe wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 04, 2020 3:35 pm

Hi Ron,
Stan Howe in Helena. I've heard your name a few times but haven't met you as far as I know.

If you get down this way, give me a shout. I have a lot of T stuff, some in town and some out in the country.

That pan jig will be a challenge.

949 3448

Yes Stan, we haven't met. I do get to Helena guit often, picked up jig there last Monday. I will give U a shout next time I there, would like to see your collection & visit.
Ronald Ries
Conrad,Mt

Jsteele wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 04, 2020 6:01 pm

Hi Ron,
I live about 3 hours from you. I have a complete pan jig with the pins all in there original places. You are more than welcome to come and take all the measurements you would like.
I would spend some time trying to free up what pins you can with AeroKroil. Expensive, but amazing stuff. Then I think all you can do is weld up the holes that are screwed up, surface and drill new holes.
I can take those measurements for you, given the amount of time and labor involved in getting to the point of drilling new holes, especially if you have to re-drill most of them, I don't want to be the guy screws up the measurements. I will do it if you can't come down here, just makes very nervous.
Someone on the forum may have a blue print of a Model T pan for hole spacing. If you can salvage three or four good holes on the jig the others should be fairly easy to place.

J.
Just where do U live? I would like to look at your jig just to get more ideas,this is the 1st jig I've ever seen in the raw. I appreciate the offer to measure yours. I really would like a Ford factory blue print. After all the work it is going to take to repair the holes in the surface. Once surface is restored, then I will resurface it flat. It is my understanding that there is a scribe line dead center threw center of crankcase, then an other 180°dead center threw oil drain hole that all the pan holes are located from. With a blue print I can locate holes precisely with my mill & digital read out.
Ronald Ries
Conrad

Jack Putnam, in Ohio wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 04, 2020 6:52 pm

Just a point of information for those working on a pan jig . The pins on the original jig are THREADED and are screwed into the jig. They are not loose pins driven or dropped into a hole on the jig. FYI

Jack
Thanks for info. After a little research I have done, your the first to mention threaded in locator pins. Being in the machine & welding field for 38 yrs. This makes much more sence to me ! Especially considering the stress them pins get as your sledge hammering that crankcase.
Ronald Ries
Conrad, Mt

Ronald - you might consider putting the sledge hammer away - the only "hammering" that is required is getting the pan rail flat as Donnie explained above. PRESSURE & LEVERAGE are your friends when attempting to straighten the Ford crankcase. I use blocks in strategic areas with a chain & bottle neck jack - been straightening pans for a number years. My jig is custom made with all critical measurements coming off the late Herman Khonke's KRW jig.

Hi everyone. Just saw that my old thread has came back alive.
rrmodelt If you want to send me an e-mail. I can help you as you go along with the rebuild. As mentioned above, I agree that if you have two or three good holes then it will be easier to locate the other holes. There are 10 pin holes. Six of the holes are drilled all the way thru the table. The broken pins can be driven out from below. The pins are not threaded. They are an interference fit in the holes. They are not a press fit, just a nice tight fit. The four pins at the pan arm area are "blind holes" those pins will need to be pulled. I can explain how to do that if you have any that need pulled. The pins are available from McMaster Carr. You will not need to make the pins. The McMaster Carr pins are very hard. I suggest that the pins used in the four blind holes be anealed by heating them to a dull red and let cool slowly. That way if you break one it will be easy to drill it for pulling. Do not ask how I know how hard the broken hardened pin was to get out.
A real good layout jig for the holes at the rear is to just use a cast iron non starter hogs head. It is a perfect layout tool or even a drill jig. Then use a 26-27 hogs head and block to help locate the front holes. By using the above parts and some good layout techniques, you can get a accurate layout of the holes.
Now about welding. Welding is a pain in the @SS. The top approx 1/4 to 3/8 is a very hard surface just like a blacksmith anvil. The main body of the casting is a softer cast iron. It usually is a very high sulfur casting. It will take two different special rods to weld it. I can explain the welding procedures you will need to do to make sure the welds are good. Rods should still be available at Tractor Supply.
The castings for the cone and the casting for the cone shaft to fit into is available thru Lang's. I have heard they may be partialy machined now, instead of just raw castings like I used.
I also have a list of all the parts and materials I bought from McMaster Carr to use on my jig.

Good luck with the project.