Changing clincher tires with flaps

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Changing clincher tires with flaps

Post by mngreen » Thu Jun 06, 2019 12:44 pm

I just purchased a set of new Excelsior 30 x 3 1/2 clincher tires from Coker to replace my worn out 10 year old tires. The previous set were also Excelsiors; they were installed for me with flaps back then so I am unfamiliar with the process. I have done Model A tire installs before, so I am familiar with balloon tires but not clinchers. Any tips on dismounting the old tires with the flaps and reinstalling. I have reviewed Royce's posting on his method. I am specifically looking for a step by step process on dealing with the flaps.
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Re: Changing clincher tires with flaps

Post by Bill Robinson » Thu Jun 06, 2019 5:25 pm

Mike- mounting clinchers is pretty easy, especially if you bought the heavy flaps rather than the lightweight ones.
1. Put just enough air in the tube to take the wrinkles out. Do not overfill.
2. Stuff the tube into the tire. Most new tires have a spot painted on them. Align the tire stem at the painted spot. Balancing point???
3. Next, put the flap into the tire such that the flap encases the tub. Stem through the hole in the flap.
4. Once the tube and flap are in place you should see nothing but the flap with the stem protruding through the flap. Put just enough air in the tube to remove any possible wrinkles.
5. Remove the valve from the stem to remove relax the tube, i.e. deflate it
6. I put the rim on the floor, place the tire/tube over the rim and most of the time the tire will slip on, without using tools. Second side usually requires tire tools to pry the tire onto the rim. Don't pinch the tube with the tire tools.
7. Most of the time, a lubricant is not required. But, sometimes rarely I have used a little Dawn around the tire. I don't like Powder. Soap will dry, powder stays. Lubricants and low pressure are the enemy of clinchers. But some will disagree with this statement AND this mounting method. It works for me.
8. Air the tires up to the recommended pressure. Then deflate. Air up again and go for a ride. Check the tire pressure before every ride until you determine that the tubes hold air and don't slowly leak down. A leakdown of a pound or so a week is normal and not your fault.


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Re: Changing clincher tires with flaps

Post by Art Ebeling » Thu Jun 06, 2019 6:23 pm

By flaps are you referring to rim liners? I am about to put new tires on my 11.

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Re: Changing clincher tires with flaps

Post by mngreen » Thu Jun 06, 2019 6:24 pm

Thanks! Yes, Dave at Chaffin's did put in the heavy duty flaps back 10 years ago. I was thinking of using a little diluted Murphy's Oil Soap to install.

How about a step by step for taking the clincher tires with flaps off the rims? :roll:
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Re: Changing clincher tires with flaps

Post by Scott_Conger » Thu Jun 06, 2019 6:59 pm

Art

No
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Re: Changing clincher tires with flaps

Post by Art Ebeling » Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:25 pm

If no, then what are flaps?

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Re: Changing clincher tires with flaps

Post by Mark Gregush » Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:43 pm

Flaps go in the tire, liners just go on the rims. Liners are used with wire wheels, they cover the drop center where the spokes are attached.
I know the voices aren't real but damn they have some good ideas! :roll:

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Re: Changing clincher tires with flaps

Post by aDave » Thu Jun 06, 2019 8:03 pm

And the discussion continues for another season :D

Lots of different owners, thus many different opinions....

Doing a lot of research - for example this thread
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/17 ... 1307320620
(see especially Dan Treace's post of June 5th, years ago!)
convinces me to use flaps on my wooden spoked clinchers.

Your wheels may be different, as well as your thoughts.

To each his own....

Good Luck


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Re: Changing clincher tires with flaps

Post by SurfCityGene » Sat Jun 08, 2019 1:32 pm

My experience is that it makes a difference what size clincher is being mounted.
I have 3" on front and 3 1/2" rear. I use flaps in the rear but Not in the Front. There isn't much room inside those front tires and the flaps I have seen take up way too much room. I have never had a flat on the fronts after going through 3 sets of tires driving lots of miles. I do use a homemade type liner inside the fronts to protect the tube from the rivet heads.
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Re: Changing clincher tires with flaps

Post by mngreen » Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:22 pm

Well, I finally got one (1) tire disassembled from the rim and the tube and flap out after half a day's work!! :oops: Took another half day to attempt to mount the new tire and was not successful. No way was the assembled unit of tire, flap and tube going to go over that rim lip! After taking a break, I pulled the tire apart and attempted to mount it like I do for my Model A balloon tires; one side over rim, then flap then tube. I got one side over the rim but it could not be moved to the far side in order to allow enough room to install the tube and flap; the first bead just covered the hole for the tube stem in the rim and would not move further. NO JOY! Quit for the day.... :evil:

I would gladly pay someone to do this job but no takers yet! A couple of years ago I changed out FIVE Model A tires with no problem but this clincher thing is busting my balls! Any tips on what I am doing wrong?
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Re: Changing clincher tires with flaps

Post by SurfCityGene » Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:59 pm

MM, Hey I didn't see you lived close by!!!
Bring it up to HB and we'll get them tires on.. I've mounted several..

I did have some Firestone Non Skid 30X3's that were a challenge

give me a call at 714.FOUR88 six 013 cell
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Re: Changing clincher tires with flaps

Post by Allan » Sat Jun 08, 2019 9:20 pm

Mike my technique is a little different. I do not use flaps at all, but it makes no difference. Just inflate the the tube enough to hold its shape. In stall the flap inside the tyre if you must to make the three parts just one unit. Then fit the valve stem through the rim hole and use a clamp to hold BOTH beads of the tyre in the rim. Use plenty of lubricant on the beads and lever BOTH sides on at the same time. Towards the end one side may pop on without the other, so use care levering on the last little bit of the last side.

Your troubles with the one-side-on-first method and getting the valve stem in is why some resort to notching the bead to clear the stem. This is not necessary if you follow the steps above.

Hope this helps. Allan from down under.


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Re: Changing clincher tires with flaps

Post by SurfCityGene » Sun Jun 09, 2019 12:23 am

I got an email from Mike and told him to bring his wheels up here and we'll have some fun!! I usually have found it's easier when the wheel is on the car but have done it both ways. I found there were some differences in the Firestone tires I've had in the past. Several years ago I had to resort to inserting a modern wheel and tire inside the clincher and inflate it in the hot sun in order to get it on the rim.

I certainly hope he doesn't have that same batch, My next set was better but the 3" are a little tougher than the 3 1/2's Still a lot harder that a wheel with the dropped centers!
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Re: Changing clincher tires with flaps

Post by TonyB » Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:57 am

A couple of months ago a customer called saying he spent an afternoon replacing one tire and he had three more to change. I told him to come over and I would have a go. I did EXACTLY what Bill Roberson suggests and did all three in 37 minutes. It timed by the customer not me.....
I use a little soap solution and they just slide on 😊😊
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Re: Changing clincher tires with flaps

Post by RalphS in NE Oregon » Mon Jun 10, 2019 12:06 pm

Having the right tools helps a lot. Before I tried mounting my first clincher a few years ago, I got the MTFCA video by Fred Houston on mounting tires. In it he showed using a special hooked tire iron that makes the job easier. There are no dimensions to it, but I showed the video to a blacksmith friend to see if he could make something like it. He made me three like shown in the picture below, from 3/4" spring steel. They worked really well. I mounted the tires with flaps on my living room floor. I used commercial tire lube that I got from the local tire store, and by the time I was done I was mounting a tire in less than three minutes after I had to tube and flap inserted in the tire.
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DSCF1497.JPG


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Re: Changing clincher tires with flaps

Post by RalphS in NE Oregon » Mon Jun 10, 2019 12:13 pm

Picture didn't work; will try again.
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Re: Changing clincher tires with flaps

Post by mngreen » Mon Jun 10, 2019 1:32 pm

Well, mission accomplished with help from Gene; thanks a lot Gene!! :D

We removed and installed the tires with the rims on the floor. Stuffed the tube in the tire partly inflated after notching the beads for the stems, then levered both sides unto the rim together with tire spoons, using 4 hands and some liquid soap. At first we tried to insert the tire with flap and tube together as a unit but were unsuccessful. Ended up omitting the flaps entirely.

I estimate that all five tires (including spare) to remove and install took about three hours, with about a half hour of that total being due to a problem with a leaking valve stem that had nothing to do with the install.

Not an easy job by a long shot! :mrgreen:
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Re: Changing clincher tires with flaps

Post by SurfCityGene » Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:29 pm

Mike Thanks for posting for some help! That's the real value of a forum like this which can find local help with our Model T's.

Changing clincher tires can be a challenge especially if you don't know the couple of tricks that help make the job a lot easier. I did see that your flaps really presented a real issue because of their size I think. We decided after inspecting the inside of the rims that installing flaps in your tires presented more issues than benefit. I've run clinchers both ways without any problems.

Some quality tire irons are a must. I have found the easy source is at the local Motorcycle shop. With nondemountables on my '12 I always carry a set for any roadside flats. It's a good idea to always have a spare tube. We had an issue with one of Mike's tubes that we were able to fix with hose clamp around the valve stem on his spare. Lucas sells tubes for $15. if we had one with us we could have finished the job but it was good to show Mike the hose clamp trick..

Was a good day and I was happy to help out a fellow Ter get back on the road with some new tires on his Very Beautiful '24 touring!
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Re: Changing clincher tires with flaps

Post by Scott_Conger » Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:02 pm

Gene

was nice of you to lend a hand. You likely now have a friend for life.
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Re: Changing clincher tires with flaps

Post by DHort » Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:51 pm

Ralph,

Do you remember the name of the tire lube you used? I do not want to use water and/or soap. That will just lead to rust. Powder can also absorb water and lead to rust. Thank you.


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Re: Changing clincher tires with flaps

Post by Allan » Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:20 pm

Dave, if you have any sort of relationship with a tyre dealer for your modern vehicles, just take a container down to them to buy some of the stuff they use. It is usually in a big bucket. My dealer fills my one pound tub and won't take a penny for it. He probably sees it as a good investment, not having to deal with clinchers at his premises!

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Re: Changing clincher tires with flaps

Post by RalphS in NE Oregon » Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:10 am

Dave,
The lube I use is appropriately called SLICK, Tire Mounting Lubricant, made by Warsaw Chemical Solutions. I was given a part of a jug by my local tire store, probably because it wasn't an item they normally retail and it would have been more trouble that it was worth to sell it. Worked great, way better than soap.
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Re: Changing clincher tires with flaps

Post by DHort » Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:25 am

Tire-Slick, $4.95 for 16oz concentrate. $17.00 to ship.
Would love to try. You are right. Borrow some from an auto store.

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Re: Changing clincher tires with flaps

Post by RajoRacer » Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:24 am

I use RuGlyde from NAPA in the gallon jug - lube, mount & quick wash !


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Re: Changing clincher tires with flaps

Post by Original Smith » Thu Jun 13, 2019 11:33 am

When our tires were made in the USA, I never used flaps, in fact, I never heard of them! I think I wore out about two or three sets of tires that were USA tires, Wards Riverside, and Firestone. Then I bought a set of Firestones that were made in New Zealand, and that's when the trouble started. I had three flats on the first tour I went on. I believe they must have done something to those tires that wasn't done before. At any rate, I now use flaps, and haven't had a problem since. I don't like them, and they are a pain in the butt, but they are necessary for the Viet Nam era tires.


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Re: Changing clincher tires with flaps

Post by Original Smith » Sun Jun 16, 2019 11:43 pm

Some more on flaps. They go in easier when new. I recently had to change one that had been in the car for years. They get a little tempermental after they've gotten hard.


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Re: Changing clincher tires with flaps

Post by Nv Bob » Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:39 am

I have stopped using flaps and pay more attention to tire pressure 50psi low as they go and not flat since
Use baby powder in tire and mount both beeds at the same time with tube just aired enough keep it round
1 hour work 4 new tires tube mounted
I mounted rhese for a friend having trouble and like other said if you where closer i say bring them by
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Re: Changing clincher tires with flaps

Post by mngreen » Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:35 am

Original Smith wrote:
Sun Jun 16, 2019 11:43 pm
Some more on flaps. They go in easier when new. I recently had to change one that had been in the car for years. They get a little tempermental after they've gotten hard.
Larry, I think you hit the nail on the head! My flaps were in the tires for almost 10 years and developed quite a "set" in shape making them very hard to remove (had to use vise grips and four hands) and almost impossible to reinstall.
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Re: Changing clincher tires with flaps

Post by Allan » Mon Jun 17, 2019 10:03 pm

The hardening of flaps over time is a reflection of the materials use in their manufacture. I suspect the compounds are really inferior, [floor sweepings?] A friend looped his set of new ones over a rail while waiting for his tyres to be delivered. three months later he had 8 half flaps. They had perished to such an extent they had actually broken in half where they looped over the rail.

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Re: Changing clincher tires with flaps

Post by Oldav8tor » Mon Jun 17, 2019 10:16 pm

I recently purchased new T-drivers (Vietnam), Tubes (China) and flaps. The flaps were the only parts made in the USA. My demountable rims are in pretty good shape but just rough enough on the inside that I think flaps are a good investment.
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Re: Changing clincher tires with flaps

Post by Original Smith » Tue Jun 18, 2019 10:29 am

Every flap I've bought has the rim size on it. 23" for 30X 3 1/2. and 24" for 30 X 3.

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Re: Changing clincher tires with flaps

Post by KWTownsend » Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:47 pm

Yesterday I finished mounting a new set of Excelsior tires on my 1911. I opted to not use the flaps that had been in the old non-skids for the past ten years. In those years I had two flats. Front 30x3 at 55psi, rear 30x3-1/2 at 60psi.


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Re: Changing clincher tires with flaps

Post by Spade » Tue Jun 18, 2019 2:29 pm

When I replaced my tires with new ones on the 23 Fordor I managed to get the first one on by myself with tire irons and no lube, but it took me an hour. Flaps were not a problem. When my neighbor came over and assisted the extra set of hands on more tire irons made it fast and easy. The rest took about 15 minutes each.

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