MTFCA Forum

I know of several that seem to fit this question, One, in California I beleive, has the original engine and frame. The one Donald B. Hess had did not, I am told. Whar are your suggestions?

We could also seek the oldest (earliest) correct Model T, using original parts (perhaps minor reproduction items) Where is the oldest body (wood or aluminum)?

ModelT46 wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 08, 2024 6:37 pm

I know of several that seem to fit this question, One, in California I beleive, has the original engine and frame. The one Donald B. Hess had did not, I am told. Whar are your suggestions?

There is no answer to the question that everyone will agree on.
Define "correct" - sum of the parts? original vs reproduction vs refurbish/restored?
How is "oldest" to b determined? engine, body & or frame.
When does "oldest" supersede "correct"

I saw a 2 lever 2 pedal one somewhere in Orange County, Ca. a number of years ago, but did not ask any questions about it nor do I know what the differences were except the transmission.
Norm

If you are asking original, what car would beat out the Rip Van Winkle?

Not the oldest, but an amazingly original 1913 offered by Mark Chaffin in the classifieds:

https://www.mtfca.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=43275

There is a remarkably original driveable 2 lever tourer in Australia which would be hard to beat. It was on our 2008 T Model Centenary tour when I last saw it. At that time it was a recent import from the USA.
Allan from down under.

To say oldest correct Model T would be hard to find if possible. There are to many variable’s to find an exact original. If there is one it’s probably a T in the 17-27 era. Before that you’re not going to find anyone in complete agreement. There are to few records documenting any changes that were made in the early brass cars. If there are someone will disagree on how they were kept. And the list would go. You can build a “correct 1909 “. if you find all the correct parts for it. But that’s not the same as an original 1909 in unrestored condition. They may have been a few in the 20’s and 30’s but they have rerestored since then and sold to who knows. My opinion

There is probably an all original, unrestored 1909 in an old forgotten barn somewhere, hopefully in a very dry climate. I hope whoever finds it is a member here and will consult with the MTFCA sages before doing anything with it. If found, it should be fully documented, left as is and studied. Possibly sell to The Henry Ford Museum of American Innovation in Dearborn, Michigan, to clean, stabilize and display as the oldest, all original Model T in the world. Wouldn’t that be cool?

This is a pretty nice all original may of 1910.

One of the problems in finding a "correct original" car is that Henry didn't always follow a yearly schedule of models. He made changes whenever he could improve on a weak area. And sometimes one assembly plant would use all the parts and so changed to the next model at a different date than another plant which would use up the remaining parts before changing. You can see this especially in the 1922 - 1923 open cars. Not only that but some states listed them according to the first sold date which could vary around new years day. A bit different than the way it is done today. My first car was a 1929 Model A but it had some of the features of a 1928. It was first sold in January 1929.
Norm

That would be why it would be more desirable to find an all original unrestored, brass era, pre-assembly line example on which all of the parts were cast, stamped or machined by hand and basically custom made by the workers or sub-contractors several cars at a time. Love Kim’s 1910. Do you have a full side view picture of it outdoors in the sun?

Not unrestored but very nice 1908 # 90 that sold in the Pratte collection @ Berrett-Jackson in 2015 The car ran & drove like a dream. The only
things I noticed was it had latter tapered axles & hubs on the rear & the levers are painted black. A beautiful restoration. Way nicer than it would
have been coming out of the factory. Some controversy over how correct it was & have heard some say it was a made up car & other say not so.
Either way it is a joy to behold. I hope the new owner drives it at least some.
Craig.

James, there is just what you describe in the car I mentioned in Australia. It is unrestored, well preserved, and well respected, with a known history.
Perhaps Aussie 16 is following this thread and can post more details. Or, Chris, our forum moderator, can report on his viewing of the car.

Allan from down under.

I beleive that Model T number 90 was from the Woodhead collection sold in Minnesota in 2004. It was reported by several persons that the engine block was a reproduction. Several castings were made of the pre 2500 block.. I saw one at Chickasha. I had visited the Woodhead collection several times and knew John Woodhad I, II, and III. John I owned a Ford agency in Minneapolis and I loaned him my 1910 in 1947 to show at this showroom. John II sold the dealership to Nelson Ford. John II had his Ford collection near Delano, MN.