MTFCA Forum

I understand that Ford first introduced a pickup truck in 1925. Was it a TT? Did it have a regular Model T transmission and rear end or did it have a worm drive rear end? I'm NOT talking about ALL the converted cars that were made into pickups. A TRUE factory Model T pickup. Thanks, bobt

It was the same as a normal T roadster with a factory steel bed replacing the trunk with the exception of a heavier rear spring. Possibly the front spring also. The chassis were stenciled to denote which body type it would receive.
There are quite a few details that distinguish a true 25 to earlier bodies.
Larry Smith is the go to guy for these details.

No Thank"s

That’ll leave a mark.

Pages 355 - 367 of Bruces book is a great place to start.

For general information Ford started using a PU bed in 1925. For several years before owners would use a T Roadster and remove the turtle deck and either use the avaliable aftermarket PU beds or owners would build their own. Sometimes owners would use a Touring and remove the back half and make a PU bed for it.
My opinion is that Ford should have had an optional PU bed long before 25 but that’s just my opinion. He was slow in that respect. Probably the main difference was a little heavier set of springs and there are a few other changes but other than that no major changes were made.

Didn't Ford bring out the TT express body pickup in 1924? Wasn't it a 1924 model year pickup with the C-cab?

Yes, 1924 was the first year steel C-Cab & Express box - my Gramps bought his new in Seattle - I have it in the shop !

Steve, can you describe the backrest in your C Cab? My 20 gauge sheet metal “backrest” is very hard on the back…

The Ford C-Cab has to have the most uncomfortable back rest of all the Model T's made. Besides being straight up & down, there was very little padding also. I can't recall if my Dad had it re-upholstered or when, if he did - he's been gone near 40 years.

I rode in my wife’s cousin Model A PU on a tour. It was just like the 24 TT Cab “PU” to me. Very uncomfortable for me.
It was a back breaker for sure. It simply was just to straight up for me. I asked the wife’s cousin about it when the ride was over he said he had gotten used to it! I really don’t know about that!!!

According to McCalley's data in 1917, 3 trucks were produced.

According to a period automobile publication the experimental trucks were being driven around Detroit. Of interest to those with and with out water pumps, the article stated the block may have some modifications to improve cooling.

Not being a Ford TT expert, but one who enjoys research, I came across the following two entries from 1918. A year after Ford introduced it's truck. The context of the articles in the auto publications indicate that up to WWI, Ford Autos were adapted, without side suppliers, to be ambulances, trucks, delivery vans, jittneys.

After 1918 the interest came about to improve both the new truck chassis and to improve the carrying capabilities of the converted automobile to a truck.

My 1925 Pickup is featured on the cover of the Model T times a month or two ago. It is about as correct as you can get. I spent seven years putting this car together. It is the late design which is different than the earlier version, bit so is the standard roadster.

I may have recently sold the only repro of the prototype TT pickup, actually build on a T chassis.

Weren't most regular production pickups painted "Commercial Green"?

At a recent show, I told an very elderly gentleman that I always called that color Army Tank Green.

He told me that was fair as Ford was designing hat truck to sell to the military, but the war ended before the contract was complete and signed.

I have no idea where he found that information!

I Think this is a real Pickup 1925.

Steve Connif, the guy who brought us the first woven Kevlar bands, had an original 25 factory pickup, as featured in " Model T Ford, the car that changed the world'" by Brice, McCalley. Check it out for your self.

Allan from down under.

My “True Model T Pickup “ Note no Ford on gate, meaning it is an early pickup.
I believe it left factory as a truck. Unlike later that were shipped as Roadsters and dealers added pickup bed. Dan

Thanks for posting Dan. Don't you have a Canadian pickup too, with a LH door?

Here are a couple pictures of my 25 pick up. One recent and one when it was new.

Larry: Yes I do. It is RHD too. I have to finish it.
The one posted pictures of is the one you looked at in the White Field at Hershey years ago. Dan

The information I have is the first factory pickup was assembled on April 25. 1925.

I have two original Ford ads from 1925. They are titled Introducing New Pickup body For Ford Runabout. These are scarce and don't show up often.

Steve Coniff's pickup has a stencil on the frame, "For Pickup body. When i first met Steve, I couldn't believe I had never seen a real 1925 pickup! I was always aware that Floyd Clymers book Henrys Wonderful Model T had a photo of one in it. So, that is how I got started. Ultimately, I found an original up in San Jose. I spent a lot of time getting that car into shape. The engine was frozen, and there many wrong parts on it, but it was a start. The body had been damaged at some point, so I sold it to a fellow out of state. Haven't heard of it since.

Speaking of stenciled frames designating which body went on which frame - check this frame out.

Jay wrote:
At a recent show, I told an very elderly gentleman that I always called that color Army Tank Green.

He told me that was fair as Ford was designing hat truck to sell to the military, but the war ended before the contract was complete and signed.

I have no idea where he found that information!

It's a good story, but, perhaps, that's all it is. HF was an isolationist and refused to sell Ford USA products to the combantants until the US officially declared war in 1917. Then he reluctantly agreed to build ambulances. I'm not aware that HF was planning on providing any additional material to the US effort. But, the ambulances were painted a shade of OD green, so perhaps that is the color that was used for the early trucks.
I thought the Model A engines were painted a green and wonder how different that shade is from the early truck green.

My how the Ford Company had changed by the late 30’s, during The Second World War the American, German, and Russian armies were all using Ford trucks!

A more recent find on the Internet:

All About The Ford Model T Truck Variant
Story by Daniel Trock

The Ford Model TT was a prototypical pickup truck, built from the same chassis as the regular Model T. The obvious difference is that the rear of the chassis had been lengthened and strengthened, allowing owners to attach a cargo container and haul it around. To accommodate the additional size and weight, a lower gear ratio was added to the Model T's classic 4-stroke 20 HP engine, which would allow the vehicle to safely haul large loads under its own power. Since it was heavier, the Model TT could only do around 22 mph versus the roughly 35 mph most regular cars were doing at the time, but the sturdier body made it better at handling rough, uneven terrain.

Bit of a stretch, but would an ambulance be considered a type of a 'truck'? The definition of a truck is a large, heavy motor vehicle used for transporting goods, materials, or troops...

Martin, that vehicle is hardly an ambulance. Patients to be carried in it would have to be ambulent, so are more like passengers. There is no way a stretcher would fit in that vehicle. The real ambulances built on a T car chassis had a considerable overhang at the rear to make them long enough to accept a patient on a stretcher.

In today's world that vehicle would be equivalent to a clinic car where medical help is available, but patient transport is not part of the service.

Allan from down under.

Here's mine.

A REAL T Pickup in front of a real T house and garage.
Nice picture Larry.

Allan wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 30, 2024 7:44 pm

Martin, that vehicle is hardly an ambulance. Patients to be carried in it would have to be ambulent, so are more like passengers. There is no way a stretcher would fit in that vehicle. The real ambulances built on a T car chassis had a considerable overhang at the rear to make them long enough to accept a patient on a stretcher.

In today's world that vehicle would be equivalent to a clinic car where medical help is available, but patient transport is not part of the service.

Allan from down under.

I don't believe he was seriously considering going into the ambulance business with this or asking about its practicality. His question was, "would a Model T ambulance be considered a truck?".

From the collector car point of view, ambulances, hearses, flower cars, taxicabs and such, are classified as "Professional Vehicles". There are clubs that cater to them.

Are ALL TT"s worm drive? 25 some mph top speed?

Yes Bob. All TTS are worm differentials. There were 2 ratios. The lower speed - or 7.16:1 - would allow about 18 MPH at a reasonable engine RPM. The ‘higher’ ratio of TT differentials - or 5.25:1 - might increase your MPH to around 28 at reasonable engine RPMs….

Thanks George. bobt

Jerry VanOoteghem wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 31, 2024 1:14 pm

Allan wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 30, 2024 7:44 pm

Martin, that vehicle is hardly an ambulance. Patients to be carried in it would have to be ambulent, so are more like passengers. There is no way a stretcher would fit in that vehicle. The real ambulances built on a T car chassis had a considerable overhang at the rear to make them long enough to accept a patient on a stretcher.

In today's world that vehicle would be equivalent to a clinic car where medical help is available, but patient transport is not part of the service.

Allan from down under.

I don't believe he was seriously considering going into the ambulance business with this or asking about its practicality. His question was, "would a Model T ambulance be considered a truck?".

From the collector car point of view, ambulances, hearses, flower cars, taxicabs and such, are classified as "Professional Vehicles". There are clubs that cater to them.

Hi Jerry,
Thank you for understanding my question. I really wasn't sure if an ambulance would qualify as a truck, since it seems to fit the general definition and the bed and frame look like a truck. I'm an armature T owner and I've honestly never heard of the collector definition of a "professional vehicles". It's always good to learn something new about T's. There were so many different varieties and styles.

Finally: the image I copied and pasted was from a wikimedia site and it was labeled as a "1915 Ford Model T Ambulance" see... https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File ... lance_.jpg - We're old enough to know you can't always believe the internet , )

None of the WW-1 ambulances were on a TT Truck chassis, as it had not gone into production until very early before the war ended.