"Common knowledge" takes a hit

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Steve Jelf
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"Common knowledge" takes a hit

Post by Steve Jelf » Sun Jun 16, 2019 4:40 pm

I have always heard, and always believed, that Ford never sold a toolbox for the Model T. So I was surprised to come across this while looking for something else.

Screen shot 2019-06-16 at 3.18.12 PM.png
I guess the 27% price cut would be due to much higher production with the new assembly line. I wonder if there would be any way to identify it other than size.
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Re: "Common knowledge" takes a hit

Post by John kuehn » Sun Jun 16, 2019 6:23 pm

I wonder if any of Fords tool boxes actually had a Ford stamp or number on them. If Ford made them avaliable I wonder if anyone on the forum has one. It would be neat to see one. I have seen all kinds of supposedly T era tool boxes but not a “Ford tool box”. But there is a lot of T things I haven’t seen also!
Put one eBay and see what happens. Now that would be interesting!
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Re: "Common knowledge" takes a hit

Post by Scott_Conger » Sun Jun 16, 2019 7:45 pm

Steve

was this a Dealer/Agent publication or a factory publication?
Scott Conger

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Re: "Common knowledge" takes a hit

Post by Hap_Tucker » Sun Jun 16, 2019 8:07 pm

Steve,

It is amazing the amount of information listed in Bruce McCalley's CD set and/or his book "Model T Ford" I am assuming that is where you found that listing? It is shown on page 594 of his book as well as in the CD version.

On my first review, I was really happy to see that it does NOT say "REGULAR EQUIPMENT." It is my limited understanding that the tools/items that were supplied with the car were noted as "REGULAR EQUIPMENT" by Bruce in his Price List of Parts as well as his book. "IF" my understanding is correct, then the Metal Tool Box was NOT a standard issue with each car. Instead Part number 2336 (factory number 1979) "Tool Roll" would have been included with the cars to hold the small tools included in the sale of the car. See the extract below that has the header with explanation followed by several tools that have "REGULAR EQUIPMENT" etc.
From Bruce McCalley Price List of Parts
From Bruce McCalley Price List of Parts
If someone looked up the Metal Tool Box drawing (factory number 3409) at the Benson Ford Archives along with the record of changes for that same factory number -- it should say if the part was to be included with the car or not. Most of the tools listed by Bruce were for use by the Ford Agency (Dealer) and not included with the purchase of a car.

However, when I searched on the factory number for the Metal Tool Box I found the following which doesn't really bring the closure I had hoped for:
Metal Tool Box running board.JPG
Note it has the wording "Tool box, metal 21 x 9 x 9 , Running board"

I looked at some photos of "new" 1913/14 (and some used ones) at:

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/59 ... 1479352869

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/82 ... 1543334612 see the last photo from the Ford Times

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/41 ... 1414768472

Below are the 1913 new car photos I was looking for -- they have the tags hanging on the car still:
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/257047/305055.html (new 1913 right side)
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/50 ... 1450801025 (new 1913 left side)

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/50 ... 1444684644

And none of the ones above had a running board tool box.

Below 1913s/1914s with a running board tool box:

http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/59 ... 1483037884 -- only 1 out of the 9 photos had a running board tool box.

Note also that the "Tool Roll" was not listed for 1913 & 1914 in Bruce's listing above. However, from memory -- he did not list every Price List of Part but usually when the part changed or when the price changed. Where 1920F is shown the reference is to Ford’s factory catalog dated 1920. Below is again from Bruce's Price List of Parts compilation.
Tool Roll used 1912-1927.jpg
If anyone has time to check the Benson Ford Archives before 2023 -- I suspect the information on the parts drawing and the change cards would clarify how the metal tool boxes were used. If not, I hope to retire by then and I will try to look it up....

Respectfully submitted,

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Re: "Common knowledge" takes a hit

Post by John kuehn » Sun Jun 16, 2019 9:06 pm

As always Hap you do a good job of research. The Ford archives may have some information about a tool box. Interesting to see one that has survived and especially if it has a Ford logo or number on the box.
Use to see folks at swap meets with various tool boxes from the T era and I have owned some that were to far gone to restore. The one shown in the pic from a distance looks like similar boxes that were at the swap meets but they were companies that made similar shaped boxes over time. It could be some were passed over that could have been actual Ford boxes. Maybe.


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Re: "Common knowledge" takes a hit

Post by Original Smith » Sun Jun 16, 2019 9:31 pm

I think they were only offered during the teens. I've seen them, and they fit nicely between the front and back doors on a touring, and don't overlap the running boards either as I recall.

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Steve Jelf
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Re: "Common knowledge" takes a hit

Post by Steve Jelf » Sun Jun 16, 2019 9:33 pm

I am assuming that is where you found that listing?

Exactly right. This is just a guess, but I suspect the tool box has no Ford ID on it, like that Holy Grail of Model T tools, the #1902 screwdriver. Many of us may have done as John suggests, passing over actual Ford tool boxes without realizing what they were.
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Re: "Common knowledge" takes a hit

Post by Hap_Tucker » Mon Jun 17, 2019 7:55 pm

Steve,

I still think the Benson Ford Archives would have a lot to add to this discussion. Not only to confirm the possible use of the tool box – was it actually used and delivered with the new 1913 & 1914 Ts or was it a Ford authorized accessory available through the dealer, or was it for use by the dealer to store dealer tools?

I believe another good source of information would be the factory drawings and change cards for the 1913 & 1914 running boards part number 4812 and Factory number 5418. “IF” the metal tool box was supplied by the factory and it was attached to the running board, I would anticipate a note or even to be included on the drawing of the running board – where the mounting holes would be placed.

Note in all the links above the over whelming majority of the cars did not appear to have a running board tool box. If it was standard from the factory, I would think many more of the photos would have them – especially the new Ford photos (and we had both sides of the new 1913 touring and there was not a metal tool box shown on either side). Of course it may have been produced before they tool boxes were introduced – but again the factory drawings and change cards for 1913-1914 for the metal tool box and the running boards would most likely clarify that.
Note, I have access to a 1914 “Price List of Accessories and Accessory Parts and no tools or metal tool boxes are listed in that price list. (Lamps, windshields, tire chains, horns, etc.).
If anyone else has some photos of 1913 – 1914 cars that are being delivered and show the running boards that would be appreciated.
Respectfully submitted,

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