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1915 roadster top
Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2024 10:25 pm
by lmuelly
This is my first model T. I'm recovering my seats in leather and building a new top. I have a couple of questions on the top and can't seem to find the answers. 1. Should this top have straps front to rear as on the touring top? 2. I purchased my top material from Mike at Classtique, I bought the pre made to pads from them but they are 9" wide, the pads I removed are 6" wide, which one is correct? I believe the wide ones will wrinkle on the center bow. I also need a front bow, mine is warped. I can't find any to fit the 15. Langs has a set but lists the years from 17-22. My first post on here.
Thanks in advance for any help!
Re: 1915 roadster top
Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2024 9:46 am
by Jones in Aiken SC
I presume you have talked to Mike at Classtique about your question. If not, call him as he is most helpful.
Are you replacing an ORIGINAL top, or is it possible that you had an earlier replacement top on the car?
Re: 1915 roadster top
Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2024 10:35 am
by WayneJ
I also have a 1915 roadster. Somewhere I read of a source for just one bow, rather than a set. I will do some cheching and see if I can find the source. You might ask Mike at Classique or Steve at Lang's if they know where you can buy a single 15 bow.
Re: 1915 roadster top
Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2024 10:38 am
by George House
Lawrence,….I’ve always known/learned/thought my ‘14 runabout top is exactly like a ‘15 runabout top. That said, I believe you’ll need 2 sets of leather straps - 1 set in front and the other in back as per these pictures. Get them from Russ Furstnow…. And the 9” pads are correct.
Re: 1915 roadster top
Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2024 11:21 am
by lmuelly
WayneJ wrote: ↑Sat Dec 14, 2024 10:35 am
I also have a 1915 roadster. Somewhere I read of a source for just one bow, rather than a set. I will do some cheching and see if I can find the source. You might ask Mike at Classique or Steve at Lang's if they know where you can buy a single 15 bow.
Yes I bought the pads from Mike, but like I said I believe they are not correct for my 15. I will check back with him on the single bow.
Thanks!
Re: 1915 roadster top
Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2024 11:29 am
by lmuelly
George House wrote: ↑Sat Dec 14, 2024 10:38 am
Lawrence,….I’ve always known/learned/thought my ‘14 runabout top is exactly like a ‘15 runabout top. That said, I believe you’ll need 2 sets of leather straps - 1 set in front and the other in back as per these pictures. Get them from Russ Furstnow…. And the 9” pads are correct.
I know about those straps but I can clearly see the straps up under the top in your pics! They are inboard from the pads. So your pics helped! I'll know more when I finish the frame and I can set the pads on and look at them, my originals are actually curved, May be from time?
Thanks
Re: 1915 roadster top
Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2024 11:36 am
by lmuelly
Jones in Aiken SC wrote: ↑Sat Dec 14, 2024 9:46 am
I presume you have talked to Mike at Classtique about your question. If not, call him as he is most helpful.
Are you replacing an ORIGINAL top, or is it possible that you had an earlier replacement top on the car?
I do not know if it is original, I'd say judging from the nail holes it's been replaced more than once!
I've got a lot to learn about this T!
Re: 1915 roadster top
Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2024 12:05 pm
by George House
You asked about a front wood bow. I’d suggest Mel Draper in Jeromesville OH. I’ve purchased wood top bows from him. He has some kind of extended family in the Amish community that supplies them. Email me for his phone number…gh
Re: 1915 roadster top
Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2024 12:32 pm
by Erik Johnson
If you are purist and want to do it right, this is how the pads were constructed at the factory:
- Lightweight white canvas sewn inside, along the folds of the black cotton covering. The pads are stuffed with cotton batting.
- There SHOULD NOT be two straps that run from the first bow to the last bow
- There SHOULD NOT be jute furniture webbing inside the pad
- For reinforcement, two pieces of top material sewn down the center and fastened finished side down to the first and second bow
- The first bow is attached to the windshield via adjustable cotton webbing straps with buckles - if you don't have a pair, you can purchase them from Lang's. Cotton webbing, not leather, is correct for 1915 through 1922.
- There are two adjustable cotton webbing straps with buckles (aka rear curtain straps) attached to the rear bow and the top saddle brackets - if you don't have a pair, you can purchase them from Lang's. Cotton webbing, not leather, is correct for 1914 through 1921. (In 1922, a revised top saddle bracket was utilized which are not compatiable with the cotton straps and metal D rings.)
Below is how the pads should look before adding the cotton batting and sewing them closed. This is my father's 1917 Ford touring which he has owned since 1949. My father installed a new top on the car in 1951 using the orignal, factory top for patterns. These photos were when we were installing another top a couple years ago. This was all done by scratch - not a kit.
I have the original top pads from my 1917 roadster. I have also have the original pads from a 1918-22 roadster top. When I have time, I'll measure the width.
Re: 1915 roadster top
Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2024 1:13 pm
by Original Smith
I would authenticate your car first. There are many conversions around. The key is research.
Re: 1915 roadster top
Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2024 5:50 pm
by lmuelly
Erik Johnson wrote: ↑Sat Dec 14, 2024 12:32 pm
If you are purist and want to do it right, this is how the pads were constructed at the factory:
- Lightweight white canvas sewn inside, along the folds of the black cotton covering. The pads are stuffed with cotton batting.
- There SHOULD NOT be two straps that run from the first bow to the last bow
- There SHOULD NOT be jute furniture webbing inside the pad
- For reinforcement, two pieces of top material sewn down the center and fastened finished side down to the first and second bow
- The first bow is attached to the windshield via adjustable cotton webbing straps with buckles - if you don't have a pair, you can purchase them from Lang's. Cotton webbing, not leather, is correct for 1915 through 1922.
- There are two adjustable cotton webbing straps with buckles (aka rear curtain straps) attached to the rear bow and the top saddle brackets - if you don't have a pair, you can purchase them from Lang's. Cotton webbing, not leather, is correct for 1914 through 1921. (In 1922, a revised top saddle bracket was utilized which are not compatiable with the cotton straps and metal D rings.)
Below is how the pads should look before adding the cotton batting and sewing them closed. This is my father's 1917 Ford touring which he has owned since 1949. My father installed a new top on the car in 1951 using the orignal, factory top for patterns. These photos were when we were installing another top a couple years ago. This was all done by scratch - not a kit.
I have the original top pads from my 1917 roadster. I have also have the original pads from a 1918-22 roadster top. When I have time, I'll measure the width.
Thanks esp. for the pics and info. I'm not to big on all of the original details but I am OCD so I have to control my urge to take it all apart so I can fix so many of the small items. That being said the previous top was OK but I want mine to be great. Very curious about the width of your pads.
Re: 1915 roadster top
Posted: Mon Dec 16, 2024 1:02 pm
by Erik Johnson
I measured the original, factory issued pads from my unrestored 1917 roadster and the width is seven inches.
1915, 16 and 17 all used the same oval top sockets and curved bows. The only difference between the construction of the top is 1915-16 had a tombstone light (window) in the rear curtain wheras 1917 had three rectangular lights in the rear curtain (although photos and surviving original examples of early 1917s did have a tombstone light so there was some carryover early in the 1917 model year).
1918-22 tops have square top sockets with curved ends that receive straight wooden bows.
Re: 1915 roadster top
Posted: Mon Dec 16, 2024 7:08 pm
by lmuelly
Erik Johnson wrote: ↑Mon Dec 16, 2024 1:02 pm
I measured the original, factory issued pads from my unrestored 1917 roadster and the width is seven inches.
1915, 16 and 17 all used the same oval top sockets and curved bows. The only difference between the construction of the top is 1915-16 had a tombstone light (window) in the rear curtain wheras 1917 had three rectangular lights in the rear curtain (although photos and surviving original examples of early 1917s did have a tombstone light so there was some carryover early in the 1917 model year).
1918-22 tops have square top sockets with curved ends that receive straight wooden bows.
Eric,
Thank you for taking the time to measure your pads. Mine are 5" and 7 would work but these that i purchased from Classtique are 9" wide and I believe I would have a hard time getting them to lay down. I thought I would save some time but...
I'm busy doing the toothpick thing to fill the nail holes on the curved part of the irons.
Larry
- 20241215_195330.jpg (74.33 KiB) Viewed 1878 times
Re: 1915 roadster top
Posted: Mon Dec 16, 2024 7:47 pm
by RajoRacer
What are those wing struts attached to Larry ?
Re: 1915 roadster top
Posted: Mon Dec 16, 2024 8:35 pm
by Wayne Sheldon
Nice looking 1915 runabout!
(What did you do with the old top?)
Re: 1915 roadster top
Posted: Mon Dec 16, 2024 9:18 pm
by Erik Johnson
Larry:
The pads as supplied by Classtique are not how it was done at the factory. Classtique provides the covering and two lengths of jute furniture webbing per pad. The original top pads did not have jute webbing in them. As I described factory issued pads, canvas is sewn inside the top pad material, along the edges.
Classtique is located here in Minnesota and I had been to Elizabeth Estepp's place a few times when she owned it and a couple times since Mike Francis took it over at his previous and current locations.
It's been a while since I've seen the Classtique pads in kit form and I can't remember if they are supplied pre-creased and sewn along the edges.
You can certainly make narrower pads with the material provided by Classtique. If the material is already creased and sewn along the edges, remove the stitching, use an iron and remove the creases and then fold to make them narrower, press new creases and then sew along the edges. You can overlap the jute webbing inside the pad when doing the installation.
Re: 1915 roadster top
Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2024 4:12 pm
by Upholstery Mike
Hi Guy's. We have made the top pads the way we do for easier installation. Most customers are trying to buy a kit they can install themselves. I have tons of original parts and all of the original 15 top pads I have were either 9" wide or 7" wide. Also, NONE of them have cotton padding. It's horse hair. 16 and later I have found the cotton padding in. Thanks.
Mike Francis
Classtique Upholstery