MTFCA Forum

Just setting up my pinion gear on a shortened drive shaft for an auxilliary gearbox installation.
What stops the rear axle inside bearing from sliding back and forth. On the left side of my car the bearing can move up to 1". On the other side it is located by the end of the carrier.
In the gasket kit for the rear end there is a small ( one inch) red fibre washer. Where does this go?

The red washer goes between the ends of the axles in the carrier. It keeps the shafts from moving in and out.

Rajo T Speedster wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 20, 2024 8:49 am

What stops the rear axle inside bearing from sliding back and forth. On the left side of my car the bearing can move up to 1". On the other side it is located by the end of the carrier.
In the gasket kit for the rear end there is a small ( one inch) red fibre washer. Where does this go?

Something seems to be seriously wrong. The red washer goes between the inner ends of the two axle shafts. It will do nothing to take away 1" (!) of side-to-side bearing travel. If you don't have the MTFCA rear axle rebuild manual you should seriously consider buying one.

As a beginning point look at the assembly drawings in the technical section, Vowell Art
app.php/gallery/album/44
More drawings are available on his personal facebook pages

The MTFCA sells a series of repair manuals on how to fix your car.
These are the best bargain of information for the cost and a must for everyone doing repairs.
But your best bet is to find someone with experience nearby but.
I see you in Western Australia so this may not be possible.

Rebuilding the rear axle assembly is a step by step procedure that needs to be followed to be successful.
1" of end play is a major problem probably caused by parts not in the correct locations.
Maybe it could be figured out by pictures, but this will be the hard way to go.
Nothing will beat experience or good i instructions.

Mike

Do you have all the parts?

Part 2506 is normally red but different thickness may be required - gray or brass
Better check your axle to see if the retainers & key are in place

Both ends of the axle housing have an internal thick ring held in with the rivets that hold the backing plate or pumpkin onto the tube.
This is your bearing stop. Its right @ the edge of the sleeve. 1" is really excessive, even for a lot of wear from a rubbing bearing cage.
The only way I can think you could have an extra 1" possible bearing travel would be if the collar was never installed or removed in a "re-tube" process on an old pumpkin. Possibly a shorter than normal bearing??

If the axle shaft moves it could be an old babbit ring inside. The replacement bronze rings last much better. The right side movement would be limited by the gears.
Norm

Norman Kling wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 20, 2024 5:54 pm

If the axle shaft moves it could be an old babbit ring inside. The replacement bronze rings last much better. The right side movement would be limited by the gears.
Norm

He states it's the inner bearing that moves an inch. I'm wondering if he's using the correct bearing. Are they both the same length? Some pictures would definitely make it easier to help him.

Should be the same length. The sleeves will be different depending on the right or left. The dimple on the sleeve will fit into a hole in the tube with the open side of the sleeve down.
Norm

As I recall, the pinion bearing is the same ID and OD as the rear axle bearings, except that it is roughly 1” shorter in length. All 4 roller bearings in the rear axle are the same length, and are equal in length to their outer race. As stated above, there are heavy rivet backing rings that act as inboard stops for the bearings. I suspect that you have an extra pinion bearing…

1” diameter fiber washer goes between the axle ends when assembling the spider gears and center carrier

Kevin Pharis wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 21, 2024 11:24 am

As I recall, the pinion bearing is the same ID and OD as the rear axle bearings, except that it is roughly 1” shorter in length. All 4 roller bearings in the rear axle are the same length, and are equal in length to their outer race. As stated above, there are heavy rivet backing rings that act as inboard stops for the bearings. I suspect that you have an extra pinion bearing…

1” diameter fiber washer goes between the axle ends when assembling the spider gears and center carrier

Rollers on the driveshaft bearing are larger. (.562") & the overall OD much larger also. So, even being shorter, it wouldnt fit.
Hyatt bearings came in many different sizes, but it would be obvious if one of the 4 were an inch shorter.
So, the mystery continues.

^^^^^^^^^^^
That’s what I get for converting my cars to tapered roller bearing spools… Thanks for the pinion bearing details

speedytinc wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 21, 2024 11:57 am

Hyatt bearings came in many different sizes, but it would be obvious if one of the 4 were an inch shorter.
So, the mystery continues.

Perhaps not obvious to the OP

But, since we have heard nothing back, we may never know.

Jerry VanOoteghem wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 21, 2024 1:08 pm

speedytinc wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 21, 2024 11:57 am

Hyatt bearings came in many different sizes, but it would be obvious if one of the 4 were an inch shorter.
So, the mystery continues.

Perhaps not obvious to the OP

But, since we have heard nothing back, we may never know.

It's only been a day, don't forget the date/time difference.

Mark Gregush wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 21, 2024 1:39 pm

Jerry VanOoteghem wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 21, 2024 1:08 pm

speedytinc wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 21, 2024 11:57 am

Hyatt bearings came in many different sizes, but it would be obvious if one of the 4 were an inch shorter.
So, the mystery continues.

Perhaps not obvious to the OP

But, since we have heard nothing back, we may never know.

It's only been a day, don't forget the date/time difference.

Wow, you're right. Thanks!

When the left side axle tube was sitting upright in the vice I installed the bearing into the tube. The top the bearing went down about half an inch below the thrust washers level.
Tried to install the axle and it wouldn't go in very far. I then installed the bearing onto the axle shaft and held it there while I inserted the axle shaft into the tube. All went OK. There must be some sort of ledge in the tube that hold the bearing in position when the axle is in position.
All parts shown in the exploded view are in my setup.
Problem resolved.
Thanks for all the advice given.
I am now just about passing Ford T 102.

John

"Tried to install the axle and it wouldn't go in very far. I then installed the bearing onto the axle shaft and held it there while I inserted the axle shaft into the tube. All went OK. There must be some sort of ledge in the tube that hold the bearing in position when the axle is in position."

The bearing surfaces are smaller than the raw axle shaft between. When installing the assembly into a housing, the inner bearing has to be in place next to the differential case first. Sounds like the lesson you learned. That procedure is noted in par. 616 of the T1 service manual.

I have a question about rear axle outer bearings/sleeves. How much up/down or side to side movement should there be between the axle and the outer bearing?

Kent

I would say to you, essentially zero.

Kent, I would say a bit more than zero, perhaps bugger all! Most good used Hyatt bearings have .002" t0 .003" wear, add a bit for wear in the sleeve and there you have it. The better lubed bearings in the diff centre are usually less worn than the outer ones which carry the load of the car.

Allan from down under.

Thanks for the info, it's kind of what I was thinking. I started to pull the rear axle last night and going to rebuild it. It has had a leak at the left wheel and where the pinion spool bolts to the axle housing. I know the disk/axle shafts must have some wear as there's some end play between the shafts. It still has the original outer bearings as they have the grease grooves in them. The cages are tight, but the rollers themselves are awful loose. I'll keep you all informed when I get it apart. The car is a 1926, but definitely not original.
Motor/trans/rear axle are a 1924. Thanks again, Kent

some specs ......................