MTFCA Forum

I'm 18, since I was 8 I wanted one of these, after a decade, hard work and some luck I am now broke but got the car of my dreams, it is a 1917 touring, it's paint is cracked, the top in the back needs to be replaced along with all the leather straps and it's missing a few things, but I couldn't be happier with my purchase. I got some oil and coolant to replace tomorrow and if I got time I'll fix that top. Where can I find the leather straps and does anybody have any parts list to the car roughly so I can see all the odds and ins I'm missing? Additionally plain sae 40 if fine for the engine right? That's what I got anyways, if it's bad for it I'll just get a different oil for next oil change. Maybe later when I can I'll take some photos, someone here with a more trained eye could spot what's missing or incorrect. Thanks.

Edit: I forgot to ask, how do I tighten up the steering? I have to quarter turn before it catches the wheels. And how do I check the band linings and check for proper adjustments?

Great to hear from you and well done on your new car

Many will chime in with ideas, so never hesitate to ask any questions.

As a start have a look at Steve Jeff's page here: he has a lot of interesting information to start: https://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG80.html

The most important thing to remember is to have fun
, Adrian Whiteman

Look at ;
Chaffins Garage
Snyder Antique
Langs Old Car Parts
(Vendors with online catalogues).

No coolant. I would start with thermocure. Always helps, never hurts. Especially if stored a long time.

40 wt is fine for first. I use 30wt in So Cal.
Valvoline VR1.

1917 Ford roadsters and tourings didn't come with leather top straps from the factory.

The the two front bow straps and the two rear curtain straps were originally cotton webbing. If you don't have a set of front and rears, webbing straps are available from Langs.

My dad purchased his 1917 touring in 1949 from the estate of the original wner when when he was 17 years old. He just turned 93 and has owned the car for over 75 years.

I have an unrestored 1917 roadster.

big2bird wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 05, 2025 9:36 pm

Look at ;
Chaffins Garage
Snyder Antique
Langs Old Car Parts
(Vendors with online catalogues).

No coolant. I would start with thermocure. Always helps, never hurts. Especially if stored a long time.

40 wt is fine for first. I use 30wt in So Cal.
Valvoline VR1.

What is thermocure? Also I plan on using my fine machine weekly, im not keeping it's glory in a box it's whole life so why no coolant? Is 50/50 distilled water plus some green generic ethylene glycol coolant (it's ingredients are just ethylene glycol, diethylene glycol and water) bad? Doesn't straight water rust?

Congratulations on your first T!
Is great to see some younger folks joining the ranks.
Modeltford.com has many parts, including leather straps for the top.
I am using non detergent sae 30wt oil in my 22. It was to my understanding that it's best to use non detergent oil in an engine that you do not know so in case it is full of sludge you are not loosening it up and bocking passages with the detergent oil.
We have used regular old water and antifreeze mixture in our 25 for many years and it has worked fine.
I would highly recommend the black Ford service manual. For me at least there is nothing like getting your hands dirty and looking at it with your own eyes.

Welcome to the affliction!

Thermocure is a flush and rust remove. Get the cooling system cleaned first before using 50/50 green antifreeze. The engine and the transmission are the same oil supply, open the transmission inspection cover and see how much gunk is in the oil. It all can be cleaned out with kerosene. I use 15w40 diesel engine oil because of the zinc content but everyone has a different opinion. Get the Model T Manual, it is a complete repair guide with step by step instructions. I just add 8 hours to their timed instructions because it’s over 100 years old. Good luck!

You remind me of me Lucas. I was 7 when I was bit by the T bug, getting a Model T Matchbox toy for my BDay. I bought my first T at 23. 45 yrs later I'm now working on my 2nd T, with a Model A stable mate.

My best advice is don't be in a hurry. You're dealing with 100 yr old ladies and they need lots of care and attention. First step is education. Learn all you can, there are plenty of resources. I'm assuming you're mechanically inclined, or so motivated, cuz an antique will require your constant attention and mechanical skills, don't think you can take her to your corner mechanic.
You're going to be spending some money, so start with assessing the cars overall condition and needs by checking every major component in order to prioritize your budget. Start with safety and chassis condition before cosmetics. As example, you made the comment about your steering. A Model T is squirrelly enough in good condition, but a quarter turn before any action would be positively unnerving/ dangerous at speed. There are multiple wear points in the front suspension youll need to check... the column planetary gears, steering column rod & rod bracket, all the balls (pitman/control rod), bushings, kingpins, axle, etc etc. A little wear in one thing may not seem much, but a little wear in everything adds up quickly.
Take your time, get acquainted, enjoy the journey, and don't be afraid to ask questions.
You won't regret it!

Congratulations on your first T Lucas. While the forum provides a lot of information there’s nothing like face to face. There is an MTFCA Chapter in Oxford Florida. While that’s still a little way to go for you I think you’ll find that being able to speak with a T owner one on one will greatly enhance your entry into the hobby.

Andy

My normal advice to those interested in Model T's or new owners is to hook up with others in the area.
While there is a ton of good stuff on the web from forums and videos and more but nothing beats in person hands on diagnostics by someone with experience.
There are as many different levels of experience as car owners so results will vary.
There are many model T's all over Florida and 3 MTFCA chapters plus 4 MTFCI chapters in Florida

Don't worry about cosmetic issues until it is mechanically sound. Ugly cars are the most fun anyway.
Loose steering could be a lot of different items and each need checking.
It is easiest to have a helper rotate the steering wheel while you check each and every piece for wear.

Enjoy the adventure, there is nothing else like it.
Mike

Good luck with your new T. Langs sells the black Ford copy of the T service manual. Its a good start to understanding these cars as they are different than all others. Searching for the subject folliwed by Ford Model T will usually lead to old posts of this site in a different format. The old posts have alot of good info.
I use 10W30 motor oil in mine and I changed it a few times to flush it out. I flushed the cooling system with water. I dont use flushing chemicals or anything else other than the liquid that usually goes in the car. Certain parts may not be chemically compatible with the cleaner and I dont want to find out the hard way. You may never kniw if you have removed all traces of the cleaner or the debris that it loosened up. Everyone has their own opinion on these subjects.
To find loose steering parts, I jack up the front end and hold it up with jack stands or wood blocks. Have someone move the steering wherl back and forth until resistance is felt and I look at all of the joints. Usually one part of the joint is solid snd the other can be seen moving back and forth. Prying gently on them or moving back and firth will show the slack.

Ford Motor Company recommended what amounts to 20W oil. 10W30 works just fine. "Green" antifreeze at a 50/50 mix works well. Oil everything on the car that moves, including all hinges, latches, and chassis parts, including the springs. The engine will hold 3 1/2 quarts of oil. You can get hurt crank-starting the car, or bust the starter if it has one, so read up on how to start it before doing so. The U joint needs to be pumped full of grease. You won't have much braking at best, so beware.

Owner's manuals and the Ford repair manual are available online and in reprints. I'd get both and read them. It would be a very good idea to have a person with T experience look over your car and demonstrate driving techniques and discuss what the car is and is not capable of.

There are several do it yourself books printed for the club. These are available through the club website or from the various vendors. One on the Engine, one on the Electrical System, One on front and rear axles, one for Ruckstell Axle, one for Carburetors. Very good information. Also one called "Tinkerin Tips". I don't know how hard or soft your water is, but if it tends to make lime sediment, use Distilled Water. The 50 50 antifreeze green Prestone is good even though you don't have freezing weather where you lived. It has rust inhibitor and also raises the boiling point by a few degrees. You should use 20 or 30 SAE oil or multigrade oil. This car does not have a water pump or an oil pump so you need oil which flows freely. Good idea to remove one of the front bolts on the crankcase inspection plate while the engine is running. It should be at the right front right under the camshaft. Oil should flow out if the oil line is free from lint. If it does not flow freely, you will need to remove the hogs head and check the oil funnel behind the flywheel to see if it is blocked with lint or sludge. If so, clean it out. Wish you lived closer, but you might find someone who lives nearby who can help you.
Norm

I would not be concerned about a body at this time. I would be concerned more with making it start,stop and move on it's own and in good order. fixing steering issues and wheel issues and such . You can restore the chassis as you have time and money and later you can start on the body. i had to do that on my pickup project. I started with a rough chassis and axles and went up. took years of my spare time but it is done and titled. Ideas for the body work changed over time and glad they did really, as I am happy with the results.

Get all the Ford literature for your car. The Ford Manual, Ford Service book for 1925 or 26, and a 17 or 18 parts book. Reproductions are ok. Be very careful who you speak with! There are a lot of members who think they know what's going on but don't. Use your own judgement and common sense.

Original Smith wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 06, 2025 11:51 am

Get all the Ford literature for your car. The Ford Manual, Ford Service book for 1925 or 26, and a 17 or 18 parts book. Reproductions are ok. Be very careful who you speak with! There are a lot of members who think they know what's going on but don't. Use your own judgement and common sense.

Great advice, Larry.

I agree with Pat about the proper weight engine oil. The Ford lube chart recommends 10 in winter and 30 in the summer. Since you are in Florida, I would and do use 10W30 year-round. I have never had an oil-related issue with my T's engine. Welcome to the affliction!

Lucas,
Welcome to the experience. Yes, you need the manuals. I have 10-20 oil in mine. Be sure to jack stand the rear wheels and chock the front before you try to start it up. Whatever you have motivational energy to do...do and enjoy it.
Vernon

Get a copy of this book from one of the vendors or go to www.themotorbookstore.com and purchase the larger version.
Same book, just a bigger size. Then sit down on your patio and read it slowly.

Then you can come here or go to Model T Ford Club of Facebook and ask lots of questions. Do not think that any of
your questions are stupid because we have all asked that same question when we started. We are all here to help you.

And most of all, have fun.

You should have got your insight first!

Or download service manual here.

https://cimorelli.com/mtdl/servicemanual/default.htm

Jones in Aiken SC wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 06, 2025 4:37 pm

Or download service manual here.

https://cimorelli.com/mtdl/servicemanual/default.htm

Thanks, i just put those on a flash drive to keep in the shop. I inherited a 65 inch tv- monitor and i can pull up the diagrams and such up nice and easy to read on that screen!

Lucas,
Welcome to the hobby. Hopefully you'll have many years of enjoyment from it. Be sure to take advantage of the opportunity to tour and socialize with other members of the community. Age is not a factor -- your interest in T's is your ticket in.

I too own a 1917 Model T Touring. I added a starter and a few other things and have thoroughly enjoyed the adventures and knowledge gained that I have experienced. I've also met some of the finest people in my lifetime, which is considerably longer than yours .
If you email me I have something to send you that you may find of great use in deciding what is correct for your car. That said, the car doesn't have to be "correct" to be enjoyed. Post some photos and let us know the serial number of the engine and we can provide you with some more info. Do not hesitate to ask questions. Folks here are glad to share knowledge (and opinions) which you can sort through and decide what best fits your situation. I definitely support the suggestion that you find a chapter and get to know some of the members....it'll make the whole process easier.
Best of luck!
TIM

PHOTO-My 1917 Model T Touring

Wow, that was a lot of reply fast. Thanks y'all for all this insight. I will definitely be picking up some of these reproduction service and parts manuals. I definitely later, will go over the whole car, and fix up the mechanical stuff needing fixing. I'm waiting on Sunday though, Wednesday I'm doing oil and coolant but Sunday I'm dedicating to my lovely hunk of 100 year old treasure. I'll fix the headlights look at the steering and suspension I'll see if I can get some parts list or something I can inspect to see what's missing and order what needs to be replaced. Oh and rebuild my leaky carburetor. The only bummer is I'm waiting on Tallahassee to call me to take my money for my horseless carriage Tag, but that just gives me more time for fixing. And as some suggested I'll try to get in contact with some local t owners, there are some antique car meets here and there sometimes with some real old cars, and the guy who runs one of them I hear has one or two. Thanks everyone.

Oldav8tor wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 06, 2025 5:56 pm

Lucas,
Welcome to the hobby. Hopefully you'll have many years of enjoyment from it. Be sure to take advantage of the opportunity to tour and socialize with other members of the community. Age is not a factor -- your interest in T's is your ticket in.

I too own a 1917 Model T Touring. I added a starter and a few other things and have thoroughly enjoyed the adventures and knowledge gained that I have experienced. I've also met some of the finest people in my lifetime, which is considerably longer than yours .
If you email me I have something to send you that you may find of great use in deciding what is correct for your car. That said, the car doesn't have to be "correct" to be enjoyed. Post some photos and let us know the serial number of the engine and we can provide you with some more info. Do not hesitate to ask questions. Folks here are glad to share knowledge (and opinions) which you can sort through and decide what best fits your situation. I definitely support the suggestion that you find a chapter and get to know some of the members....it'll make the whole process easier.
Best of luck!
TIM

PHOTO-My 1917 Model T Touring
model t 4sm.jpg

I was meaning to get some photos, but I've had it covered after moving it in to the safety of my fence rather than outside, I ran it then covered it again, Wednesday when I get time to change coolant and oil I'll get some photos. Thanks I'll need the luck.

The VERY FIRST thing you want to fix is the rear axle. If you are lucky you take it apart and have bronze thrust washers in there. Not so lucky and you will have to replace the originals with bronze thrust washers. Hopefully everything else is good inside, so you just put it back together.

Congratulations on acquiring your first Model T! Another useful reference essential for getting a Model T running the best that it can and keeping it running well is the MTFCA Coil Testing and Tuning Webinar. The Webinar includes an overview of the Model T ignition system, key components, how they work and provides specific focus on Model T ignition coils. How to properly test and tune them for optimal engine performance.

Model T Coil Testing and Tuning Webinar link: https://youtu.be/RYcGD-8Ol3s?t=363

Good luck with your Model T and getting it running to perfection.

A Model T is different then a modern car in many ways. One of them is the rear axle design. Unlike modern cars it is not a hypoid axle. There is no lengthwise sliding between the ring and the pinion. What that means is that the ring and the pinion gears do not become mated as they do in a modern car. It is OK to replace either gear without replacing the other. Assuming that one of the gears is good, you can even install a good used replacement for the other. Another tip is extremely important, do not drop anything into what we call the hogshead that includes the transmission and the magneto. Whatever you drop will go to the bottom of the hogshead and there is no way to get a magnet in there. You will have to remove the hogshead, which as a practical matter means removing the engine as well.

Hi Lucas and welcome to the world of Model T’s.
In your initial post you asked how to tighten up slack in the steering and checking the transmission bands for adjustment.

To check your front end you can jack up the front end and get both wheels off the ground.
Move one of the wheels slowly back and forth and watch the tie rod ends as you move the wheel. You’ll be able to see what’s slightly loose if it is. Then watch the kingpin bushings and the steering gear connection at the end of the steering column. Any movement at all in those joints means the bushings or tie rod bolts need to be replaced. There could be wear in the gear box under the steering wheel too.

When attempting to work on the transmission bands and opening the transmission inspection cover STUFF RAGS ON BOTH SIDES TO CATCH ANY NUTS,WASHERS, SPRINGS AND ETC THAT MIGHT BE DROPPED INTO IT!! Doing this can save you a whole lot of trouble and having to remove the transmission cover!!
Get the Ford service book and others that can help you.

Take your time to learn as you go. And when in doubt read the instructions in the manuals.

LittleTimmy52 wrote: ↑

Mon Jan 06, 2025 7:43 pm

Wow, that was a lot of reply fast. Thanks y'all for all this insight. I will definitely be picking up some of these reproduction service and parts manuals. I definitely later, will go over the whole car, and fix up the mechanical stuff needing fixing. I'm waiting on Sunday though, Wednesday I'm doing oil and coolant but Sunday I'm dedicating to my lovely hunk of 100 year old treasure. I'll fix the headlights look at the steering and suspension I'll see if I can get some parts list or something I can inspect to see what's missing and order what needs to be replaced. Oh and rebuild my leaky carburetor. The only bummer is I'm waiting on Tallahassee to call me to take my money for my horseless carriage Tag, but that just gives me more time for fixing. And as some suggested I'll try to get in contact with some local t owners, there are some antique car meets here and there sometimes with some real old cars, and the guy who runs one of them I hear has one or two. Thanks everyone.

There are many FREE original manuals available for download at this site by year & topic https://www.cimorelli.com/mtdl/default.htm
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https://www.cimorelli.com/mtdl/1917/default.htm --
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Other valuable;e references
Descriptions Model/Year https://www.mtfca.com/encyclopedia/
Exploded Diagrams app.php/gallery/album/5
Repair instructions+ https://modeltfordfix.com/

As to the steering - Don't get fixated on just one thing. My '27 was terrible when I first bought it. It wandered all over the place and in all honesty it was not safe to drive on the public streets. I eventually found that there was not just one cause. Almost every moving part in the steering was a bit sloppy. I just completely went through the steering system and replaced or fixed virtually every connection in it. As I recall, about the only parts that did not need fixing or replacing were the planetary gears in the top of the steering system. I now comment to people that I am constantly surprised at how well it rides and handles. No, I do not have accessory shock absorbers, and don't have any plans to install them.

John Codman wrote: ↑

Thu Jan 09, 2025 1:29 pm

As to the steering - Don't get fixated on just one thing. My '27 was terrible when I first bought it. It wandered all over the place and in all honesty it was not safe to drive on the public streets. I eventually found that there was not just one cause. Almost every moving part in the steering was a bit sloppy. I just completely went through the steering system and replaced or fixed virtually every connection in it. As I recall, about the only parts that did not need fixing or replacing were the planetary gears in the top of the steering system. I now comment to people that I am constantly surprised at how well it rides and handles. No, I do not have accessory shock absorbers, and don't have any plans to install them.

Rest assured, I won't be taking this around town till I fix my steering, I don't even have the plate yet because I'm waiting on snail mail and a phone call then snail mail again. I did a little research on the steering and I know some how I got to get the front off the ground and check for slack in the moving bits. I hope it ain't much major to replace. For whatever reason I have a feeling it's just the steering gears, but that's not going off anything so obviously I'm going to check the entire steering like I said. This is definitely priority #2 which is only after the deteriorating fan belt (#1).

Good philosophy. Tackling one issue at a time is a good idea. If you get too involved right away you will end up with a pile of parts and a dizzy head. Chances are the whole car is pretty worn out and may take years to sort out perfectly. Get it to be a yard driver first and then go from there. Myself, I like to have an exit strategy if a project gets over my head or I realize the subject doesnt interest me as much as it did when I brought it. Luckily parts are cheap and plentiful but I wouldnt dump a ton of money into it at one time. You can do alot with a little money on a T to add value to it, like cleaning and lubricating moving parts, replacing leaky gaskets, which are cheap.

Lucas - be aware that the wishbone is part of the steering system. Be sure that the ball on the wishbone is secure in it's socket. This has been mentioned before here, but the castellated nuts on the socket must be safety wired together. My '27 had one loose stud and nut, the other stud and nut were gone. A cotter pin will keep the nut on the stud, but it will not prevent the stud from unscrewing itself.

Except for the steering gears at the top of the column, I think that I did at least something to every moving connection in the steering system. The one thing that I didn't expect was that the bottom support for the column and the column itself had a lot of slop. When I removed the column I found that the column had protected the bushings by wearing way undersize. I bought a complete column from a member here and found that all I had to do was replace the steering shaft and the slop was gone. I could have installed the complete column as I received it, but aside from the actual steering shaft, what I had was better then what I got. If the member reads this, the column that you sent me was perfectly useable, but I decided to use the best parts out of the two columns, and now I have some spare parts.