The 1913 Model T won't start!

[ramiroflores]

I have a 1913 Model T. The vehicle was restored years ago and has not been started for a long time. I have not been able to start it. This is what I have done so far:

Cleaned out fuel system including gas tank, fuel lines and carburetor.

Cleaned spark plugs and set gap.

Checked and tested Buzz Coils. I have a tester.

Checked for spark at spark plugs. Sparks good.

Primed engine before starting and the engine seems to be getting fuel

The car had a small 12V (lawn mower type) battery that I replaced with same. Battery used for sparking coils only.

Trying to stat car in Bat position

Results with starting:

Engine does not make any noise when cranking. It does not sound like it wants to start even though it is getting fuel and spark. No roll over sound.

I can crank engine, but it cranks hard. Feels like I have a lot of compression. I believe the engine was rebuilt.

I did try a little starting fluid in each cylinder to assure it is getting fuel. Same results no engine roll over and it will not start.

Tried raising rear of car with jack stands and making sure car is in neutral. No luck starting.

I have changed oil and I put a little oil in each cylinder.

I am stumped. Does anyone have any ideas on what I can try or what I may be doing wrong? I have had Model Ts before, but this is the first one without electric start.

[Jones in Aiken SC]

Didn't see cleaning the timer on the list, although if you have good spark at the plugs it is probably OK. Make certain you actually have a good stream of fuel getting to the carb.

[Steve Jelf]

If you have compression, fuel, and spark, you should get at least a cough. I don't see setting the timing on your list. I can't guarantee that's your problem, but it won't hurt to check.

https://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG97.html

[Steve Jelf]

I should mention that the lack of an electric starter is irrelevant.
A non-starter car in good condition should be an easy start.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZzX1Wwrkq8

[haydonr]

We had a similar problem of our '13 being difficult to start when first put together, and turned out to be adjustment of clutch/handbrake linkage/rods etc. I think it was trying to drive and brake at the same time. Perhaps with the back end lifted, put it in top gear instead of neutral and let it all spin?
Also as Steve mentioned, you checked spark, but didn't state whether you checked the correct plug was sparking at the correct time?

[speedytinc]

The original cam has a thru hole for the timer roller.
It's easy to get the roller/brush off 180 degrees.
Do check that #1 is the cylinder firing just past TDC.

[Mark Gregush]

Do you have it in the correct firing order, 1243?
Even hand cranking you can still check compression, even if it just a thumb over the hole, have you done that? Better yet, use a compression checker. Any reading at this point even if low, is better than 0.

[RecklessKelly]

A few basic checks should show the problem. Best to spray the starter fluid in the carb and then crank. Its powerfull stuff and could ober rev like crazy once it fires. Putting gas or fluid in the cylinders can flood it and foul the plugs.
Do you hear a vacuum at the carb when cranking it? Do you smell gas or starter fluid at the tailpipe? Is it flooded due to overchoking? Any signs of a mouse entering the engine? Look in the cylinders. Check that all of the valves are moving and that number one plug fires at the top of the compression stroke. Both valves should be shut at that point, spark lever all of the way up.

[Mark Nunn]

A dirt dauber nest in the intake has been shown to prevent starting.

[TXGOAT2]

Remove the spark plugs and pull the hand brake all the way back, then use the crank to spin the engine. It should turn fairly easily with no tight spots.
If that's OK, check for stuck open valves.
Be sure the choke is working correctly and that the carb adjustment is not closed.

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

The original cam has a thru hole for the timer roller.
It's easy to get the roller/brush off 180 degrees.
Do check that #1 is the cylinder firing just past TDC.

Let me add to that.... check that #1 is the cylinder firing just past TDC on the compression stroke.

[Charlie B in N.J.]

What do you mean the engine makes no noise when cranking? Pretty sure there’s something you listed isn’t right. As you describe the situation the engine should run or at least give some indication (backfiring). If all you describe is correct my guess is timing so far off that it doesn’t cause any reaction when cranking.

[speedytinc]

Starting with a wheel off the ground - Leave the brake lever forward. Start in gear. This removes all clutch drag & adds more flywheel effect.
After confirming correct timing & firing order, the next step would be to drag start.

[RajoRacer]

Compression, fuel & spark - if it has all three, it should at least fire IF the timing is correct as well as the firing order. I'd go EASY on the starting fluid !

[KWTownsend]

Double check the timing.
The cam is drilled all the way though. Your roller may be 180* off.

[Moxie26]

Did you ask the previous owner on how the car ran, and what his procedure was to start?.... Maybe that information would be helpful for you.

[Jones in Aiken SC]

I see you cleaned out the fuel system. Make sure the carb float needle valve is actually moving up and down. Some of those with a viton seat will stick, sometimes partially, so you will get SOME gas but not enough. This is especially true if the car has been sitting for a while.

[J1MGOLDEN]

You not only have to have a spark, it has to happen at the right time.

Turn the ignition switch to battery, put the spark lever up.

Remove #1 spark plug and leave it connected with the case grounded, with the ignition on, so you will be able to see when the spark happens.

Then slowly turn the crank over until the spark happens.

Then peak in the spark plug hole to observe the position of the piston and valves as the spark happens.

You will need a small pen light to see inside while the area is lit to see, or your head will be in the way.

If the spark does not happen when the piston has got to the top and started down a little, your timing is off.

You may have a fiber timing gear that jumped a notch or is not turning the camshaft or timer rotor.


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[Steve Jelf]

Let's try this again: https://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG97.html

[J1MGOLDEN]

Sorry Steve, I do not click much of anything anymore, but you covered it!

I had a Model T to play with when I was a teenager, but it could only be driven on the farm.

I bought my next Model T in 1978 and it had been in storage for about 20 years, had three flat tires and did not want to run for several reasons.

Since then, I have owned 5 other Model Ts in better condition and helped many club members get their Model Ts in better running order.

1. The most common causes I have found are trying to start on contaminated gas that the wat being heaver had settled and displaced the gas in the carb bowl.
2. The coil box was restored and the spark plug wires were put back on with #1 on the driver’s side instead of #1 on the passenger side, with the other wires reversed.
3. The gasket between intake manifold and block had a hole blown in it from a backfire and let the cylinder suck air instead of fuel.
4. The pistons were worn enough not to suck in any fuel, until some oil had been put in the cylinder and followed with some gas or starting fluid.
5. The coil box wires were reversed and the Magneto was not strong enough to provide a spark.
6. The rotor spring in the Timer had broken and there was no contact to provide a ground to the coil box to provide sparks to a sparkplug.
7. The wires from the Timer to the Coil Box were cut or broken.
8. The coils had been replaced with a distributor that had worn out and the different distributor kit used a distributor that turned in the other direction, so only #1 and #4 were correct and #2 was reversed with #3.

Sometimes you have to check all or several of those possible problems to identify the real problem.

[KWTownsend]

Does the carburetor have a Grose valve? If so, it might be stuck closed.

Do you have a different, known good carburetor that you can try?

[big2bird]

If starting fluid does nothing, he has an ignition issue.

[Rich P. Bingham]

If it’s any consolation, starting was an issue “back in the day” as well . . .

[Steve Jelf]

Sometimes you have to check all or several of those possible problems to identify the real problem.

Yes. Often the big problem is a combination of little problems.

[John Codman]

If starting fluid does nothing, he has an ignition issue.

Agreed.

[RecklessKelly]

In the mean time the poster is completely silent. He realized the tank was empty and he is off running after filling it up.

[Jones in Aiken SC]

I have done that. Cranked till I was blue in the face. Was CERTAIN I had put gas in the tank! Makes you feel like a true expert mechanic!

[Mark Gregush]

or fuel valve was not open..been there done that!

[J1MGOLDEN]

Many years ago, I was a U S Navy instructor.

All the coursed I taught had lessons on a Logical Trouble Process for Testing the equipment.

One stressed importance was a case where you have a minor problem and a major problem.

You always fix the minor problem first, as it is often the cause of the major problem.

Then both problems are solved at once!

In this case the Major Problem is the engine will not start.

The minor problems are more evasive to identify, so keep looking!

[RecklessKelly]

I had a Honda Cub that died out a mile from my house, I pushed it home and tore the carb apart. I noticed it was dry inside, so I looked in the tank, which was empty! Ive ridden off dozens of times in all my biking years, forgetting to turn the gas on. I havent done that yet with my T because I leave the hood open after I turn it off. I check the tank before I drive it just to be sure. Gas evaporates pretty fast. Nothing like the Lang's yardstick!

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

I have a 1913 Model T. The vehicle was restored years ago and has not been started for a long time. I have not been able to start it. This is what I have done so far:.....

Ramiro,

A lot of folks here have tried to help you out. How about giving us an update...

[Marshall V. Daut]

Since the car was stored for many years, check the exhaust pipe opening at the rear of the car. Mice and other critters like to crawl into this pipe and make nests, which will block air flow. That can make an engine difficult or impossible to start until the obstruction has been cleared. An old-time Ford mechanic told me about a trick he used to play on "friends": cram a potato into the exhaust pipe and mash it tight. No way would an engine start until the recipient of the joke figured out the exhaust pipe was plugged. Ha, ha. REAL funny - especially if you are on the receiving end. I wonder why nobody liked that guy???
Marshall

[Wingnut]

I had a similar issue last spring, turned on the fuel at the carb, and proceeded to wind it up, nothing happened, not a whimper, jumped over to the '26 to go to our grandsons ball game it fired right up. So I went about the process of elimination, was it electrical, I thought, checked that first. Because after all I had turned on the fuel, didn't I, at least at the carb. Then it hit me I had turned off the spud on the tank for the winter. You guessed it, she came alive, just goes to show.... it's always something and usually the simplest thing at that. Wingnut