MTFCA Forum

I bought new Buffalos, wrapped the rims with duct tape, installed tires, and have had one flat in 50years.
That answer it?

As Steve mentioned if your rims are good enough. T rims will eventually get rusted up from moisture. Rust builds up and will eventually cause a flat. I’m wondering after several years at Ford dealerships were liners offered to owners because of it.

You certainly do if you have split rims. The early automotive books all seem to reference flaps but I think it is more to prevent pinching the tube when mounting and not to protect the tube from chafing after it is mounted.

Back when new, tires didnt need flaps, rim strips or rim tape. Tires had an extension from the bead that overlapped inside to completely protect the tube.
Today's tires dont have that over lapping edge. The tube is free to rest on the rim between the beads. A rim strip protects the tube from a rough rim or wire wheel nipples. A flap will fill the gap between the beads & protect from the inside of the rim. Although not optimal, I find a rim strip or tape good enough for most applications.
I agree, flaps should be used with split rims.

The Blockley Tire website offers a perspective that original tubes were of thicker section where they met the rim, and thinner out at the tire. The Blockley tubes are made much thicker than other modern options, and are said to not need flaps even with wire wheels. A wise man once suggested to use pipe wrap insulation tape on the rims in place of rim liners, will never use duct tape again!

My 1912 has it's original rims and old tubes 1948 there are no flaps and knock on wood never a flat since the car has been in the family 1960 How the old tubes may be better than new ones and the car was a complete running car. The rims are still good as of 2013 when I treated the car to new tires . I used the same tubes, I did put metal stems on as per this forum and all has worked very well. I all my years working on model T's here in Winnipeg I have not seen a flap I learned of them here on the forum.

I have a standing order with three local tyre shops for any used 13" tubes they may find. From these I can cut a 2" wide band around the outer circumference. This band makes a snap fit rim liner for T rims.

Advantages;

They are free, Check the price on an unnecessary rim flap the dealers sell.
They never dislodge when fitting tyres.
They are transferable/reusable.
They leave no residue when removed.
They help to fill the bead on the rim for today's skinny tyres

There is a drawback. !3" tubes are becoming a thing of the past. However, you can do the same with a bicycle tube of suitable size. Even if you have to buy them, they will be far cheaper than flaps.

Allan from down under.

From the 1927 Ford Manual:

The flap question is similar to "what oil should I use?" Everyone has their own opinion. I use them because with the wooden spokes I don't want to pinch a tube. I have had my '27 for about 14 years and I have never had a flat. I would say "do what you want". I am a belt and suspenders guy. I don't carry a jack in my '27.

You should carry a jack and lug wrench because you could get a puncture in the tire This can happen by running over something sharp nothing to do with the split rim.
Norm

Adam's post refers to split rims These do need flaps to protect the tube from damage at the split in the rim.

Allan from down under.

I’m a flap person but that’s beside the point. Some here have mentioned wrapping the rim with duct tape. Don’t do it. When I replaced the tires on my ‘27 Tudor I found the former owner did that. What an unholy mess. The tape deteriorates and becomes a mess of strings and powder. If you’re against flaps do yourself a favor and use the “real” duct tape. The aluminum stuff that needs the paper backing peeled off the sticky side. It lasts virtually forever.

I'm also a flap person - one flat in 12000 miles due to a metal tack in the road. I agree that duct tape is a bad idea - I've had to clean the remains of tape out of rims I've bought and its a real mess. Whether you use flaps or not, you need to protect the tube if you have anything other than a nice smooth rim. I haven't found any that haven't experienced some rusting and become rough over the last century. I also don't like the idea of the tube squeezing down between the edges of the clincher tire from the pressure (60-65 psi) It can't help but wear. The photo shows a cross-section of a clincher tire in a rim. Without the flap I think you'd see the tube bulging down.

"I also don't like the idea of the tube squeezing down between the edges of the clincher tire from the pressure (60-65 psi) It can't help but wear. The photo shows a cross-section of a clincher tire in a rim. Without the flap I think you'd see the tube bulging down."

I agree and that is why I used flaps (much as I hate them) on my Clinchers. Some old-timers told me the same thing and advised using flaps, even with my new Clincher rims. Flaps can be a bear next time you take the tire off the rim, however. They don't always play nice.

Tim's picture above does a great job of showing why you need flaps (not rim strips) in a clincher tire. Only thing missing in Tim's diagram is what our current tires are shaped like inside- that nice gentle curve in Tim's picture on most new tires is really a sharp 90 degree edge. Those sharp edges will make short work of a tube. You won't know why because the tube will explode once the tire deflates, and the common reaction is to blame the tube.

While on the subject of duct tape- don't use it as noted above. Over time the adhesive will degrade into powder and make a mess of things. On accessory wire wheels, vinyl pipe wrap from a plumbing supply or a big box store works great. Its tough and resilient, easy to apply with a little stretch.

"Flaps can be a bear next time you take the tire off the rim." Gregory is correct. I have found them to be folded on the side, probably during fitting. I have found them migrated around the tube to the underside of the tread. I have found split flaps with the ends nowhere near each other. None of these could be used again.

I have seen two otherwise excellent Firestone tyres rendered unusable with deep grooves in the siidewall 1/4" up from the beaded edge. The flaps were wide enough that they extended half way up the sidewall. When the tyres were aired up the pressure on the flap pushed the sidewall out but stopped the bead from being pushed home in the rim. The use of a proper tyre mounting lubricant may have prevented this.

Having the tube fill the dip between the bead edges is not an issue. Until the development of tubeless tyres, every tube did just that in well based rims.

At 60-65 pounds, the tube is going nowhere. It will not rub/chafe anywhere, unless it is under inflated.

Others may disagree.

Allan from down under.

Last fall I replaced two of my tires with new Universal T Drivers. The tread was worn although they still had a little life in them. The tires had accumulated 12000 miles, the tubes between 9-10,000. The tubes (Blockley) showed no wear or damage and were re-used as were the flaps. Others may have had different experiences with flaps but I'm happy with my choice. Then again, I don't have the breadth of experience that Allan and some of the others on this forum have. I guess it comes down to each of us doing what we're most comfortable with.

Blockley tubes are far superior to any other on the market.

I weighed a Hartford and a Blockley tube - the Blockley weighed almost 1.5 pounds more and the rubber seemed to be a much higher quality. The Blockleys have brass stems that are attached in an exemplary manner. I would never consider cutting them off just to mount a "proper" stem cut from an old tube. With a stem cover screwed on, who can tell anyway?

There is a second high quality tube available, Michelin. They are thick like the Blockley tubes, thick like the old red rubber Goodyear tubes were. The Michelin valve stem screws onto a moulded-in brass base. The valve stem is of the same diameter as the more common Schraeder stems on vintage tubes. The last set of Blockley tyres I mounted were supplied with Michelin tubes, as Blockley tubes were out of stock.

I have nothing against correct size flaps being used in clincher tyres, except the fact that they come at a very considerable cost which is hard to justify when the rim liners I use cost nothing.

Allan from down under.