Re: Ford Model T Touring from year 1910

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

Post a WANTED ad here: viewforum.php?f=4

[Steve Jelf]

Maros, if you sincerely want a 1910 Ford take heart. You can have one. But, if you haven't noticed, the world is full of crooks. They will sell you a 1953 Willys and tell you it's a 1910 Ford. You have homework to do. You must study early Fords enough to have a good grasp of their identifying features. The more you know about a real 1910 Ford, the better off you will be.

[NorthSouth]

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Here is one for sale and you can trust Ed Archer. Link below.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=45931

I have attached a photo of what a "nice" one looks like.
Good Luck.
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[KWTownsend]

Also one of my first and favorite Matchbox Models of Yesteryear cars was Y-1, which they called a 1911 Model T. If you take a close look, you will realize that it is actually a 1912 slab-side body without the fore-doors. A 1911 car would have the step-side body. We won't even go into their color choice...

[Daisy Mae]

My birthday present at 7 yrs old.... what started me on my love of T's...
I had the entire 'Yesteryear' collection, but this one was my favorite.
I take exception to the description of the T being "somewhat ugly".....says who?!?!?

[Mark Gregush]

From the outside yes, but how about underneath, that is what Steve is talking about. Knowing all the little bits and pieces that are correct for the year. If you are looking for a 1910 "style car" that is one thing, but a correct 1910 is another. They are not all the same under the hood.
Friend bought what was sold as a 1912 Mother-in-law roadster, not an expert but wished he had talked to me first! The only part that was "maybe" 1912 was the wheels and rearend. The rest was reproduction or later parts.

[Wayne Sheldon]

Unless already personally known? ALL brass era Ts are suspect for authenticity until at least somewhat verified by someone really familiar with the hundreds of minute detail pieces. Few, if any, are a hundred percent correct. Most, of any brass era year, are more fake than authentic. While a 1914, 1915, or 1916, being somewhat fake might not make a big difference in dollar value or the fun value of the car? The earlier the brass year, the more important the minute details are to the dollar value, and respect the car will receive in early car circles.
I have seen at least a dozen very well done pre1912 fakes that from ten feet away look very real! They are great for the fun factor, one need not worry about damaging really expensive pieces. Having later engine and other mechanical parts makes repairs and maintenance much easier. However, in some circles the car will not get much respect. And a person that truly wants a correct car will never be really happy with a wanna-be.

In my book? I don't have a problem with the well done fakes. As long as they aren't claimed to be something they are not. They look great on the road, and at local car shows. And they are loads of fun to be driven. However, personally, I would rather have a mostly correct 1915 than a fake 1912.

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

Maros, if you sincerely want a 1910 Ford take heart. You can have one. But, if you haven't noticed, the world is full of crooks. They will sell you a 1953 Willys and tell you it's a 1910 Ford. You have homework to do. You must study early Fords enough to have a good grasp of their identifying features. The more you know about a real 1910 Ford, the better off you will be.

Thank you for your reply sir. I know what Ford Model T Touring from year 1910 looks like. Every single person would see the difference between this car and another.

For a "NoviceCollector" you seem to know all about it. Good luck to you in your search.

[love2T's]

"Complete AND correct". No offense, don't intend to be negative nor dissuade, but well, good luck. Considering how few were made, how few are left, how many were all screwed up with other replacement parts let alone being painted the wrong color...you get my drift. There's one out there for ya somewhere, but I hope and suspect you've got deeper pockets than most of us!! Good luck too, the hunt is half the fun. Or most of the fun! I have found that just as in my former boating days, the happiest two days of a T'ers life is the day he buys it and the day he sells it!

[TXGOAT2]

Complete, factory-correct [1910] Model Ts were scarce by 1920, if not sooner.

[Rich P. Bingham]

Complete, factory-correct Model Ts were scarce by 1920.

The Model Ts produced in 1920 weren’t “factory correct” ?

[TRDxB2]

Gentlemen, please, I have a request for your help.

When I was little my father gave me his collection of toy cars. My favorite was Matchbox car from the Models of Yesteryear collection Y-1 Ford Model T Touring from year 1911.

I would like to fulfill my childhood dream and buy Ford Model T Touring but not form year 1911 but from year 1910.

I would like to buy a complete one and with correct parts. Because many Ford Model T from the Brass era have parts from other years. I will be grateful for any information and any help.

Friend of mine, Craig Beek, has a 1910 project car. all parts but needs to be built. You can have it painted red if you choose.

[speedytinc]

From the outside yes, but how about underneath, that is what Steve is talking about. Knowing all the little bits and pieces that are correct for the year. If you are looking for a 1910 "style car" that is one thing, but a correct 1910 is another. They are not all the same under the hood.
Friend bought what was sold as a 1912 Mother-in-law roadster, not an expert but wished he had talked to me first! The only part that was "maybe" 1912 was the wheels and rearend. The rest was reproduction or later parts.

Thank you for your reply sir. Unfortunately I can't read minds. Mr. Jelf could have written to me to be careful with correct parts and not write about car that is 43 years older.

Mr Jelfs comments gave you a good warning. See the 12 steering column post. Lots of fako's out there. Many early parts & cars are big $$$$$$$$$$$. Get the McCalley book for the detail changes in parts or you will be another guy "took" buying an incorrect/falsely claimed early T for the wrong price. Appreciate the advice you are given. Its worth a whole lot more than you paid for it.

[Colin Mavins]

to this day I still check my 1912 T when someone states this part is 1912 then I go and check my car to see if my part is the same . There was a post on the differences in the choke wire, The early cars are full of little changes I still don't know all of them still learning.

[Will_Vanderburg]

There is or was a 1909/10 touring for sale in Connecticut for $29,000 on Facebook Marketplace. Mostly original condition. Needing restoration

Its engine number is 1513 which puts the engine build somewhere in February 1909. I don’t know how accurate that is because supposedly the first approximately 2,500 cars had water pumps on them and this particular car does not appear to have one. There’s no clear picture of the front of the motor. So, it may very well be a cobbled car.

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

Unless already personally known? ALL brass era Ts are suspect for authenticity until at least somewhat verified by someone really familiar with the hundreds of minute detail pieces. Few, if any, are a hundred percent correct. Most, of any brass era year, are more fake than authentic. While a 1914, 1915, or 1916, being somewhat fake might not make a big difference in dollar value or the fun value of the car? The earlier the brass year, the more important the minute details are to the dollar value, and respect the car will receive in early car circles.
I have seen at least a dozen very well done pre1912 fakes that from ten feet away look very real! They are great for the fun factor, one need not worry about damaging really expensive pieces. Having later engine and other mechanical parts makes repairs and maintenance much easier. However, in some circles the car will not get much respect. And a person that truly wants a correct car will never be really happy with a wanna-be.

In my book? I don't have a problem with the well done fakes. As long as they aren't claimed to be something they are not. They look great on the road, and at local car shows. And they are loads of fun to be driven. However, personally, I would rather have a mostly correct 1915 than a fake 1912.

Mr. Sheldon, are you serious? Cars that are over 115 years old and you want every single detail to be correct? Every nut and bolt to be correct? Forgive me sir, but you should think about what you are writing. Because there are members in this club who have been restoring their Ford Model Ts for several years and have been looking for the correct parts for several years and you write that they have fake cars.

As somebody who is new here, and who seems to be asking for our assistance, showing some humility and respect for long term, highly valued forum contributors and not acting like a know-it-all, would go a long way. For my part, I'm done with you.

[Mark Gregush]

Unless already personally known? ALL brass era Ts are suspect for authenticity until at least somewhat verified by someone really familiar with the hundreds of minute detail pieces. Few, if any, are a hundred percent correct. Most, of any brass era year, are more fake than authentic. While a 1914, 1915, or 1916, being somewhat fake might not make a big difference in dollar value or the fun value of the car? The earlier the brass year, the more important the minute details are to the dollar value, and respect the car will receive in early car circles.
I have seen at least a dozen very well done pre1912 fakes that from ten feet away look very real! They are great for the fun factor, one need not worry about damaging really expensive pieces. Having later engine and other mechanical parts makes repairs and maintenance much easier. However, in some circles the car will not get much respect. And a person that truly wants a correct car will never be really happy with a wanna-be.

In my book? I don't have a problem with the well done fakes. As long as they aren't claimed to be something they are not. They look great on the road, and at local car shows. And they are loads of fun to be driven. However, personally, I would rather have a mostly correct 1915 than a fake 1912.

Mr. Sheldon, are you serious? Cars that are over 115 years old and you want every single detail to be correct? Every nut and bolt to be correct? Forgive me sir, but you should think about what you are writing. Because there are members in this club who have been restoring their Ford Model Ts for several years and have been looking for the correct parts for several years and you write that they have fake cars.

You just joined and are telling us about members of this club!
What Wayne said is correct for points show cars and never said one single word knocking someone that has a fake/incorrect car in fact the whole post points at it being ok as long as someone does not try and pass it off as the real thing.
People do look for the correct nuts and bolts and other correct parts for the date the car was built, that includes the lamps and equipment that was sold on/with the car from the factory build sheets when doing early brass era cars esp if for show/point.

As far as Steves post, it was correct, and you only read it as you knew what it looked like on the outside that is why I chimed in and added what I did.

[JTT3]

Mr Poradsky, you’re in luck Hemmings has an opportunity for you to review a built in 1910 Model T touring. Here is the link if you’d like to review it.

https://www.hemmings.com/listing/1910-f ... l-t-400141

Good hunting. Best John
PS Your written syntax is very familiar. Have you posted here before?

[TXGOAT2]

"Mr. Sheldon wrote, 'ALL brass era Ts are suspect for authenticity.....' "

The statement is operative.

[J1MGOLDEN]

Then with the Model Year changing on 1 October 1909, or 1 October 1910, you have the Calendar Year vs Model Year argument to deal with, as to which is most important.

[NorthSouth]

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This is the 1910 Ford Touring for sale right now on Hemmings. $75K.
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[ModelT46]

the 1910 model year started Aug 1, 1909 and went through about to Oct 1, 1910. I know of a 1910 Tourabout with a 8xxx serial number. It is the mode year that is most important and not date made.

[NealW]

There is or was a 1909/10 touring for sale in Connecticut for $29,000 on Facebook Marketplace. Mostly original condition. Needing restoration

Its engine number is 1513 which puts the engine build somewhere in February 1909. I don’t know how accurate that is because supposedly the first approximately 2,500 cars had water pumps on them and this particular car does not appear to have one. There’s no clear picture of the front of the motor. So, it may very well be a cobbled car.

Thank you sir for your reply. I know about this Ford Model T. It isn't from year 1909 but from year 1910. The number that is on engine isn't 1513 but 1513X. The last number has been removed which is illegal.

January and February 1910 Model T's had serial numbers between 15000 and 16000. It is common for people when stating what the serial number is for a particular car to use an "X" for one or more of the numbers so that the actual serial number is not publicly provided. Unless you saw a picture of the engine block with the last digit removed and replaced with an 'X', then that is likely what is meant in the advertisement for the car.

[Steve Jelf]

This discussion needs to be more complicated. I agree that the McCalley Model T Encyclopedia is a great resource. But Bruce was human, and therefore not error-proof. The more you know, the greater your chance of success. By that I mean it's best to become familiar with other sources, like the Rodda books, the MTFCI Guidelines, and some of the publications listed on the Cimorelli website.

[Will_Vanderburg]

The last number has indeed been removed

[Wayne Sheldon]

Pure speculation. Probably, someone in the past wanted to try to pass this later 1909/1910 block as being a much earlier engine as an early 1909, while not understanding that a "15XX" serial number would have only been on a water-pump engine, NOT the typical open valve engine.

Many years ago, in some states, altering a serial number on an automobile (or engine) was in fact illegal. However, in most states, not only was altering serial numbers legal, for several decades it was a common practice. Before World War Two, in most states, it was common when replacing a damaged engine to put the original engine's serial number onto the replacement engine. Altering serial numbers (in many states) was only illegal if it was done for fraudulent purposes or some other sort of misrepresentation. The act of fraud or misrepresentation was illegal, not necessarily the altering of the serial number.

All that said, some states can give you a lot of grief over an altered serial number. In spite of the fact that that it is highly likely that the action was legal at the time it was taken.

A person does need to be a bit careful when considering an early automobile with a long ago altered serial number.
Although that would not stop me from buying a special car such as an otherwise "real" 1910 Ford.

[NorthSouth]

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The following was posted here on the Forum (Vehicles for Sale) on July 2, 2025;

"I have owned 1910 T number 24146 since Sept, 1946. It is a good car and mostly complete or the 1910 parts needed go with it. If I do sell it, it has to go to a local person who will take good care of it. When a local person looks at it, I will then will quote a price, but only to someone who will keep it. If I do not find the right person, I will keep it for a few more years. I will not ship it.
I do not have to sell it."
Darel
Excelsior, MN
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[ModelT46]

I have two persons seeking more information. One from Iowa and one from MO. Both good candidates, but one is closer to me. I will wait a see what other interests come forth. The one in Iowa is close enough that could visit the car on a day trip. I want to see the car when it is being worked on . It shoud be a very nice 1910 when done. I have driven it many mil'es over the years including a national meet and two times in a long tour. It has be an enjoyment. It has a great running engine with original one piece pan, original Trans cover and original head. correct front end and a 1910 diff. I have correct timer cover and a nice two piece timer. Also a 5 ball carb.

[ModelT46]

I can drive the T, but I am somewhat disabled now from an old army injury (1950-53)and it is difficult to climb aboard.

[babychadwick]

This discussion revolves on what one considers to be correct, authentic, original ect. Most have differing views. To some it might go as far as untouched with original tires, others authentic model T (all T parts), without novice being VERY clear about what he considers correct everyone is simply guessing and offering their opinion...

[ModelT46]

nothing is really missing. some original parts are not installed such as timer cover and 2 piece timer, 5 ball carb.

has 6 inch hubs. Have set of 6 inch stright axle hubs machin\e to take tapper axle. Has 1910 6 rivit rear end and has a two piece driver shaft (drive shaft is probably a 191-13 drive.
Any one close to Minnesotaa that is interested can email be for a full discription. Has great JB model 15 head lights, a great pair of JB 1910m side lights and correct syltle tail light with plain top.

Really, for what nI want for it, is a great 1910. I will quote a price only to someone close. I want to be able , on a day trip, to visit the car.

This 1910, after owning it for 78 years means a lot to me and I will sell it only to someone I trust will do it up right (and lives close enough so I can visit the T.a0

[ModelT46]

I have one good candidate now. waiting to see what develops.

[TXGOAT2]

"Mr. Azevado your reply is another opinion and please read my topic. I wrote I want to buy Ford Model T and the reason why I want to buy it. I don't care what other MTFCA members write here about authenticity and originality. I care that I will buy Ford Model T and fulfill my childhood dream"

Then you are the only person who can provide you with counsel.

[Rajo23]

Looks like the Original Post author went elsewhere...

[Rod]

NoviceCollector has been removed from this forum.

[speedytinc]

NoviceCollector has been removed from this forum.

Reason? Was he found to be a scammer? Bad attitude? or what?
PM the answer if you dont want to go public if you wish.

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

NoviceCollector has been removed from this forum.

Reason? Was he found to be a scammer? Bad attitude? or what?
PM the answer if you dont want to go public if you wish.

TXGOAT2 copied this quote to his posting at 4:40PM...

"Mr. Azevado your reply is another opinion and please read my topic. I wrote I want to buy Ford Model T and the reason why I want to buy it. I don't care what other MTFCA members write here about authenticity and originality. I care that I will buy Ford Model T and fulfill my childhood dream"

Just one is his several rude replies. I suspect it was a "last straw" moment. Oh well....

[TXGOAT2]

I do hope the gentleman is able to locate a car that looks like a 1910 Ford.

[TXGOAT2]

Ford did build cars in 1910. But... did they build 1910 models?

[Original Smith]

Kim Dobbins recently donated an unrestored 1910 Touring to the Piquette plant.

[ModelT46]

my 1910 was made 2 or 3 days after Kim's 1910. All the equipment on that 1910 are the same as what was on my 1910 when new.

When someone buys my 1910 they can use that 1910 as a reference .

[DanTreace]

Ford did build cars in 1910. But... did they build 1910 models?

From club homepage, Encyclopedia

MODEL YEAR DATES: August 1, 1909 to November 1910, approximately.

Note: Ford referred to the cars built after August 1, 1909 as “1910” cars....

And from then on, every year, Ford advertised the 'new' model for each year.

[TRDxB2]

Authenticity requires documentation. (just some highlights)
"If it hasn't been written, it hasn't been said"

Was purchased here

Owner lost control in 1911 dented right front fender. Stored in Barn behind the car until 2020

Dealership building Today. Saying Good By

Ready for restoration. Original Title

Replacing "wear parts" paint, top, tires, upholstery etc Have pictures of progress.

[TXGOAT2]

1910 was a long year.

[JTT3]

I’m curious about the almost complete removal of Novice Collectors post. Why would they be removed? We’ve had several more contentious threads that still remain on the net & Forum. The information and help offered was sound & yes there were comments made by the OP and the contributors were somewhat pointed, including my post, but nothing that seemed way over the top, almost all, if not all were solid efforts to share information, the reality of finding an unaltered 1910 T & locations of possible candidates for consideration.

[Daisy Mae]

The reason you question it is that youre looking thru purist eyes giving credence and legitimacy to all the suggestions offered. But that wasn't the issue (not that I know specifically why he was removed).
But here's my opinion.

The OP was decidedly acerbic, Machiavelian, narcissistic and psychopathic....by any other definition, he was a troll.
I will even postulate there was no real intent to find such a car, given his stated positions held no logical/reasonable basis relative to a true collector in the first place.
If he TRULY was seeking 1) advice & council and 2) leads, then one would presume he would in turn be appreciative and accepting of any such offered. The reality was otherwise:

1) he introduced a subject, re, the search for a unicorn or what defines original condition, in a forum where that subject is potentially contentious from the start. The stage was set.
2) instead of graciously absorbing commentary, he was instead pointedly argumentative, insulting and self righteous in 100% of his responses.
3) his actions per #2 only served to elicit follow up member responses steeped in defensive posturing, serving no other basis than providing more fodder for OP continuance per #2.
4) the thread was nothing other than an exercise to cause offense, insult or disagreement, NOT to engage in any form of legitimate, reasonable or genuine two way discussion.

This, my friends, IS the mark of a troll.

I also seem to recall a very similar post not that long ago, same exact subject, same outcome, same responses, same reactions where that post was closed as well. My bet, the two OP's shared the same IP.

Good riddance

[TXGOAT2]

Yep. Bulgaria's nice this time of year....

[ModelT46]

I understand the various responses to the first post.

What is true here is that I have my May, 1910 touring for sale. I will send information to anyone interested in buy this T.

I have owned it for 78 years and at 93 have decided to let someone else enjoy it.

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

I understand the various responses to the first post.

What is true here is that I have my May, 1910 touring for sale. I will send information to anyone interested in buy this T.

I have owned it for 78 years and at 93 have decided to let someone else enjoy it.

Darel,

I understand what you're trying to do, but I must say, I have really enjoyed the fact that you still own it after all of these years.

[Daisy Mae]

Darel,

It is amazing to me the time you've enjoyed your T. I wish you luck with your sale.

My suggestion, given the rarity of your T, is to PLEASE be careful of any internet inquiry. If the OP had been contacting you, I would bet good money he was a scammer.
Vehicle sales, across all genre, are rife with scams in today's world.

I wish I lived closer to you...I would love to at least see your T. I bet you have lots of stories.

[TRDxB2]

I’m curious about the almost complete removal of Novice Collectors post. Why would they be removed? We’ve had several more contentious threads that still remain on the net & Forum. The information and help offered was sound & yes there were comments made by the OP and the contributors were somewhat pointed, including my post, but nothing that seemed way over the top, almost all, if not all were solid efforts to share information, the reality of finding an unaltered 1910 T & locations of possible candidates for consideration.

Based on the responses the "Novice Collector" received it is quit obvious that he likely elected to be removed, never to return. Even if he was a scammer it would have been an assumption. If he was removed for another reason it should have reported.

I have read several other responses for others seeking help and most all seem to have been very friendly & informative. There was an immediate assumption about the " novice collectors" knowledge about 1910 Model T's. Maybe he has 100+ or so cars, some Model T's but not a 1910, we'll never know.

What he asked for was to help him with his dream "I would like to buy a complete one and with correct parts. Because many Ford Model T from the Brass era have parts from other years.I will be grateful for any information and any help." My interpretation and a few others (NorthSouth, JTT3, ModelT46) was for the forum member experts to help him with some leads on known cars that weren't missing parts (incomplete project cars) and had correct parts (the more the better).

If you would re-read this discussion its predominately "buyer be aware" comments about fake cars that some owners may knowingly or unknowingly have.

Sadly the Forum turned his dream into a nightmare.
By the way he indicated he was from Indianapolis.

[speedytinc]

I’m curious about the almost complete removal of Novice Collectors post. Why would they be removed? We’ve had several more contentious threads that still remain on the net & Forum. The information and help offered was sound & yes there were comments made by the OP and the contributors were somewhat pointed, including my post, but nothing that seemed way over the top, almost all, if not all were solid efforts to share information, the reality of finding an unaltered 1910 T & locations of possible candidates for consideration.

Based on the responses the "Novice Collector" received it is quit obvious that he likely elected to be removed, never to return. Even if he was a scammer it would have been an assumption. If he was removed for another reason it should have reported.

I have read several other responses for others seeking help and most all seem to have been very friendly & informative. There was an immediate assumption about the " novice collectors" knowledge about 1910 Model T's. Maybe he has 100+ or so cars, some Model T's but not a 1910, we'll never know.

What he asked for was to help him with his dream "I would like to buy a complete one and with correct parts. Because many Ford Model T from the Brass era have parts from other years.I will be grateful for any information and any help." My interpretation and a few others (NorthSouth, JTT3, ModelT46) was for the forum member experts to help him with some leads on known cars that weren't missing parts (incomplete project cars) and had correct parts (the more the better).

If you would re-read this discussion its predominately "buyer be aware" comments about fake cars that some owners may knowingly or unknowingly have.

Sadly the Forum turned his dream into a nightmare.
By the way he indicated he was from Indianapolis.

Or..... Our wise administrators, maybe, determined he isn't who he represents to be.

[TXGOAT2]

If this "collector" actually owns a car, it's probably a Trabant, or perhaps a Pobeda.

[Jerry VanOoteghem]

Sadly the Forum turned his dream into a nightmare.

Oh, please...

[Wayne Sheldon]

I think his snarky attitude and cluelessly self-centered nature are what makes much of his life difficult in ways he does not understand. I don't let people like that bother me very much (I don't know if it is because I am "thick skinned" or "thick headed", but I just care much what people like that think).
Hence my making another contribution even after his snarky retort to my first post here.

Sadly, way too much of the world has adopted similar self-centered attitudes. A thoroughly predictable result of schools putting gold stars and writing "good job" at the top of student's spelling tests with enough errors in them that anyone in my generation would have been given a failing grade.

[KimDobbins]

He has emailed me twice and said he's 31 and from Slovakia in Europe.

[TXGOAT2]

Does he need someone to cash a large check for him? Does he want someone to allow him to deposit his late grandfather's massive fortune in an American bank account?

[Daisy Mae]

Hmmmm
The plot thickens.
I stand by my earlier post.

Nuff said...