MTFCA Forum

Hi,
I bought a spare tire for my Roadster. One spoke looks bad, 3 others do not look good.
Therefore I want to remove these 4 spokes, to see, if I could fix them with glue.
Could you please give a hint how I could remove the first spoke without destroying it.
I think if the first spoke is removed, to remove the others should not be a challenge.
To reinstall the repaired or new spokes I will use the Reagon tool, which I will build soon.
Could this be used for wood felloes or do I need another special tool for wood felloes?
Because of the high shipping costs I won’t send the wheel to Stutzman or another specialist in the USA.
I am located in Germany.
Thanks for your advices.
Bernd

I believe it will damage the spoke trying to remove just one. It will need to be cocked so far you are also likely to damage the felloe as well.
When removing hubs from wheels I have always worked on every spoke, displacing them a little at a time. The process is repeated over again until the hub is free of the spokes. The each spoke can be removed from the stack. You may then find that replacement will be due rather than repair. With wooden felloe wheels I would use a specialist wheelwright for the work.

Allan from down under.

That spoke will never be good even if you glue it back together. Cut through it in 2 places and then just remove the pieces.

Remove the rivets holding the fellows. Then press out the fello and spokes from rim.
If you try removing one spoke you may break the end of spokes and or the fello.
Watch the Ford film showing them making wheels .

Do NOT under any conditions consider using John Regan's spoke press on wood felloe wheels! Tightness is imperative to the wheel's strength and resilience.
John's design is great for the more common steel felloe wheels. The depth that the end of the spoke for a steel felloe wheel is much shorter, and the spoke can angle in without significant risk of damage. The tenon on a wood felloe wheel is about 3/4 of an inch (nearly two centimeters!) long and MUST be very tight the entire length/depth. The connection between the felloe and the spoke should NOT be glued. Therefore gluing cannot be used to compensate for any looseness.

As Dan Hatch says, locate and drill the rivets out from the steel rim of the wheel. Then carefully press the spokes and felloes out from the rim as a unit.

If the original wood is in very good condition? The wheel can be reworked and reassembled. Again, the finished wheel MUST be very tight in all places, rim to felloe, felloe to each and every spoke, and spoke to hub. If the wood has shrunk some from age (very common!), steel shims can be used in any connecting points.

Since you have a couple damaged spokes, you do have some problems.

Mixing and matching spokes from different wheels is not advisable, but can be done if one (you?) are very careful with the matching.

Cracked spokes should not be glued as a general rule. IF, big huge IF here(?), if a small portion of the taper is cracked away from the spoke? VERY, VERY important here! In such a way that the damage does NOT actually affect the strength of the spoke or its connection into the hub? Basically only a small amount of the surface only has become loose? That can MAYBE be glued back into place with a very high strength glue.

I only mention that here because of your location and the difficulty of shipping a wheel both directions for a proper rebuild. It seriously is basically an engineering call whether or not it should be attempted.

Surface imperfections (again NOT affecting the strength of the spoke or completed wheel) can be filled with an epoxy based adhesive and sanded smooth.

Your life and safety, as well as the lives and safety of others nearby is dependent upon the strength and resilience of those wooden spoke wheels!

Don't get me wrong here. I love my wooden spoke wheels and the cars they are on. Most people have no clue as to just how strong they are, and how safe they are to be used! However, they do need to be in good condition and TIGHT!
A good wooden spoke wheel will almost NEVER cause an accident. Wooden spoke wheels seen after an accident having been broken are nearly always broken as a result of the collision in the accident.

Don't take dangerous shortcuts with the repairs.

I made eight sets of wood felloe wood spoke wheels for my 15 touring from scratch the first three wheels were rejects the angle cuts are critical and the length from hub to inside the felloe. I made my own felloes using laminated pieces 1/8" thick and left the pieces out in the rain for three months so that they would bend inside the rim. After all the pieces are cut and ready to assemble, six spokes are assembled on one side as a unit, then the other side of six are assembled with the tenons in the fellow, the spokes and the felloe are assembled as a unit. When the spokes and felloe are assembled they will come to a point where they will not press any further, they just become solid. The spokes should be numbered as they will have to be disassembled and very lightly sanded on each side and then reassembled, with this process eventually you will get to a point of no return and the fellow and spokes are "pressed home". I made eight wheels this way and you can't tell them from original. My next project is to steam bend a full size felloe. I just love a challenge

Thanks a lot for the very helpful advices.

I learnt the following:
I will not use my Regan Tool for my wood felloe wheels (although it will be a bit wider to fit for the wood felloe wheels with the larger diameter).
I will not remove one spoke, but I should remove the 4 rivets in the rim and than press out felloe and all 12 spokes as one unit.

I thought of gluing the cracks, as some people told me, that glued wood is stronger than original wood.
The wheel was very strong before I removed the hub; I recognized no play or movement in the spokes.

But If you take a closer look at the photos, you could see that spoke number 1 has a crack (which is clearly visible) and spokes 10, 11 and 12 also might have small cracks.

As there is/was no play or movement of the spokes and re-spoking a wood felloe wheel is a big challenge, gluing might be worth a try - for a spare wheel, which I hopefully never need to use.

Thanks again for your responses. I will read them again and translate them the next couple of days, so that I fully understand them.

Greetings from Germany
Bernd

Wouldn't the Regan press work if used back asswords?

Most of the long-time members of the forum do not recommend salvaging rotten or broken spokes with epoxy, glue or shims. It is just too dangerous and even deadly.

I would buy a complete new set of hickory spokes and make a jig to replace them with. I actually did this myself in 2010 and it turned out to be fun.

If you do not feel you can do it yourself, there are people on the forum that can do it for you for a price. Good luck.

He's working on wood felloe wheels, James - different animal !

Hi, Thanks again for the additional advices.
I will follow your advices not to glue spokes!
Therefore I removed the 6 rivets and then the felloe with spokes from the rim and also removed the spoke with the big crack and 3 with smaller cracks.
Those need to be exchanged against new spokes, the other seem to be okay and I plan not to touch the half felloe with 6 not cracked spokes.
I have spare new wooden spokes, which I planned to use, but they are too short, too thick and their tendons are not long enough.
Hope to find the right one from Langs or Snyders.
Please find enclosed some photos
Regards, Bernd

The first spoke is removed and all 4 spokes which have smaller and larger cracks.
Therefore I close the here now.
I will ask further questions separately.
Thanks again

The loose rust dust on the rims indicate to me that the fellows were loose.
Those fellows will need material added to make for a correct tight fit. The fellows are held onto the rim by press/shrink fit, not the 4 rivets alone.
I believe the spokes available are for demount-able fellows.
You will probably need to contact a wheelwright to make you a few spokes.
There are more issues than you realize to get this wheel safely serviceable.

When making new wooden felloe halves the stock used should be a foot longer. The ends of the curves will never be bent in a circle, so they need your be trimmed off/back so the half piece is part of a true circle. This is not quite so important if making laminated felloes, as the thin lamunates will hold the curve bette.

Allan from down under.r