MTFCA Forum

I'm getting ready to varnish and paint the new firewall for my 15 runabout project, and am planning on installing a reproduction push/pull headlight switch that I got from Lang's. The firewall doesn't have a hole for it, and was wondering if anyone can provide a couple of dimensions for where it is located relative to the coil box.

Thanks!

Neal

I have the factory drawing for the firewall and also a 1915 Roadster. The hole size changed and the thing moved just we bit too but I cannot off the top of my head remember when. Give me the serial number of your car or production date and I will look it up for you and give you the EXACT location where it goes I won't be able to check that until after supper tonight.

Thanks John!

My engine assembly date was 9/30/1914. In addition to the headlight switch dimensions, would you be able to provide the dimensions to locate the patent plate and the brass horn. I have a correct Nonpareil horn that I would like to install correctly.

Thanks again,

Neal

Are you referring to the casting date on the motor rather than the Motor Number date taken from McCAlley's list? I really want the motor number if you have it since your car is right in the middle of some changes and you might as well get it right.

John,

The date that I gave is based on the assembly/serial number stamped on the block by the coolant port. The casting date is a couple of days or weeks earlier. I don't remember what the casting date is at the moment. The block and the rest of the engine parts are at Mike Bender getting rebuilt, so I can't check.

Thanks,

Neal

OK I understand and that is fine. I am NOT going to post the dimensions here since too many people will read those and assume they are correct for THEIR car too and get into serious problems of fit. The data plate was moving around during the date you gave for your car and the horn was "drilled in place" with no location holes given and this was probably because of multiple vendors for the horn. I have the dash drawing which has only holes and dimensions for the company who made the dash. It does not show any future holes that the Ford people would add to it during assembly. I am sending you an email now.

Send me a e mail and I will reply with photo, I have a nice 15 roadster in my shop right now that will be going up for sale
Bob
modelt2001@comcast.net

I've seen at least two different styles of headlight switches. I assume the round design predates the common rectangular style. Is it two different companies that made them, or just a newer design?

Photo sent, Bob

These may help verify the location.

Neal's September 1914 car would be fitted with a flat firewall and the continued 1914 style body as all open cars were up until Jan-Feb 1915.
Were cars of this transitional era equipped with electric headlights or still equipped with acetylene headlamps?

Neal, would you please share some pictures of your car?

: ^ )

I don't know Neal or his car, but I too would love to see lots of pictures of it! Besides, pictures of another one might help me get mine close to right. A 1914 assembled engine would very likely not have been used originally in a '15 style open car. Prototypes were built by August of 1914 (one is pictured on Royce's website!). And a handful of runabouts were assembled by the factory in December '14 (I forget the exact number, probably not exactly correct anyway, but I believe the count was about twenty, maybe thirty?). Difficulties in stamping the body panels with the new style cowl had delayed production for months, causing the '14 style to continue in production well into calendar 1915. Production of the '15 style open cars in January '15 was still very low, but I believe up to around a thousand or so. February was the first month that saw significant production of the new style, and the '14 style still continued to fill demands until at least April of 1915, mostly in a couple branch assembly plants (or so I have been told).
The body on my runabout project is date coded February '15, which puts it early in serious production. It was separated from its original engine and serial number about a half century before I got it.

It could be that somewhere in its history the original engine was replaced with the one that was assembled at the end of September 1914. Hard to say.

Here's a picture of the body before I stripped it, and after I primed and sanded it. I hope to start shooting black on the various chassis pieces tomorrow. The frame has been powder coated. After that I will be painting the body and fenders. That paint should be delivered tomorrow.

Now that we've seen the body, you may wish to consult John Ragan again...this is different body than I think he has given you info for.

It looks like it will be a very nice car when complete

Thanks Scott for the comment. I actually talked to John last night, and he gave me the dimensions for the switch and data plate that I needed for my particular firewall. Thank you John for that information! Based on our discussion, I had to rework the edge of my firewall some to get it to fit nicely into the cowl piece. I am very glad I talked to you about it BEFORE I varnished and painted the firewall!

I think John knows more about T firewalls than Ford did. In fact, if you look at the Ford drawings, the last revision probably says "go talk to John Regan"...

John did mention that the drawings didn't have the holes for the horn though, and that they drilled them upon installation. I guess I'll wait until I get the firewall and dash shield with the horn tube cutout installed before I mount it. I recall that there's been some pictures of the horn installation posted in years past, but if anyone wants to share a picture of where they have their horn mounted on a 15 firewall, please do!

Thanks for the help everyone.

Neal

Looks like a nice runabout! Thanks for the pictures.

The dash shield has a cut out (or notch) for the end of the horn to stick through above the driver's toeboard. That ought to locate it for you.

Greg, on our RHD cars from Canada, that cut-out in the dash shield is there so it clears the steering column flange. Otherwise it would be sandwiched between the flange and the firewall. Id that not the case on LHD cars?

Allan from down under.

I just bought a '15, and have yet to get it to my house, but it has what I believe to be an earlier switch. It's brass, and is round in shape.

My '15 roadster is a June 4 1915 car and it has the round brass switch in the firewall but the car was restored 25 years ago or so and the dash is NOT original based upon the wrong size choke hole and wrong angle drilling of that same hole. The good news for me was that the hole was drilled to something under 1/4" diameter so I was able to clamp my hole drilling jig onto the bottom edge of the dash while the motor was out and ream drill the hole to the correct 1/2" diameter and correct angle. Luckily it corrected both the diameter and angle and looks like it was never wrong. Sometimes you get lucky. The carb control was at a severe binding angle before I redrilled it but is nice and free now and the escutcheon plate on the people side of the dash was located OK so that went back into place with same screw holes.

The 15 dash that fits the "common '15 hood former" was in fact drawn up and approved for orders on August 7, 1914. Proof that those dashes were in stock in at least small quantities on August 25 of 1914 is that they changed the drawing on that date to alter some hole sizes and added 2 holes that "may" have been horn mounting but not enough detail in the verbage to determine where those holes were added. They WERE pilot holes though.