Champion X not brass top Spark plugs

Discuss all things Model T related.
Forum rules
If you need help logging in, or have question about how something works, use the Support forum located here Support Forum
Complete set of Forum Rules Forum Rules

Topic author
Layden Butler
Posts: 469
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 5:39 pm
First Name: Layden
Last Name: Butler
Location: Danville CA

Champion X not brass top Spark plugs

Post by Layden Butler » Mon Sep 23, 2019 5:09 pm

Can anyone tell me the age of these? Am thinking pre brass top?
Attachments
20190920_110916.jpg
20190920_110907.jpg
001 email address.jpg
001 email address.jpg (66.57 KiB) Viewed 1041 times


tdumas
Posts: 67
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:45 pm
First Name: Ted
Last Name: Dumas
Location: Dallas, TX
MTFCI Number: 20999

Re: Champion X not brass top Spark plugs

Post by tdumas » Mon Sep 23, 2019 5:22 pm

They are pre brass top. I found one beneath the second floor of our farmhouse which was built iabout 1905.


wayne sheldon
Posts: 1025
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 3:13 pm
First Name: Wayne
Last Name: Sheldon
Location: Grass Valley Califunny, USA
Board Member Since: 2005

Re: Champion X not brass top Spark plugs

Post by wayne sheldon » Mon Sep 23, 2019 5:25 pm

There were several minor variations, and a couple significant differences in those earlier plugs. One of the significant differences was blue printing, I think I have one of those. Minor variations include the exact height and shape of the steel bottom, how rounded the top of the porcelain is, and how the main electrode is made and assembled into the porcelain. Most early ones, the electrode can be removed from the porcelain. These early ones were replaced by the more common brass top (hat?) somewhere about 1920 (based upon pictures in era advertising).

User avatar

Steve Jelf
Posts: 1583
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:37 pm
First Name: Steve
Last Name: Jelf
Location: Parkerfield, Kansas
MTFCA Number: 16175
MTFCI Number: 14758
Board Member Since: 2007
Contact:

Re: Champion X not brass top Spark plugs

Post by Steve Jelf » Mon Sep 23, 2019 11:24 pm

I think Wayne is pretty close. Based on magazine ads, I think the change to the crimped-on brass hats came about 1922 or 1923.

http://dauntlessgeezer.com/DG95.html
The inevitable often happens.
1915 Runabout
1923 Touring


BobShirleyAtlantaTx
Posts: 55
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 12:44 am
First Name: Bob
Last Name: Shirley
Location: Atlanta Tx

Re: Champion X not brass top Spark plugs

Post by BobShirleyAtlantaTx » Tue Sep 24, 2019 1:58 am

Google. Champion x spark plug: smooth versus ribbed insulator. It brings up a oct 9 2009 forum that has an add for the plug.


Terry_007
Posts: 88
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:18 pm
First Name: Terry
Last Name: Bond
Location: Chesapeake VA
MTFCI Number: 15718

Re: Champion X not brass top Spark plugs

Post by Terry_007 » Tue Sep 24, 2019 5:37 pm

The brass hat style first appeared in 1916 when Champion bought the Jeffry DeWitt spark plug company. The ribbed insulator appeared later. The plug shown in your photo is the early style Champion X supplied in Ts beginning in 1911. If you are into showing, these would be the correct plugs for a pre 1916 car.

There were millions of the early type plugs manufactured and they continued to be available from auto parts stores, and advertising for them is prolific-even up into the 1950s/60s. Vast quantities of WWI surplus were released to the marked in the 20s and even companies like J.C. Whitney advertised them in their catalogs. Wish they were that easy to obtain today, but they do show up often at swap meets and as the link shows, they are rebuildable.
Terry

User avatar

Steve Jelf
Posts: 1583
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:37 pm
First Name: Steve
Last Name: Jelf
Location: Parkerfield, Kansas
MTFCA Number: 16175
MTFCI Number: 14758
Board Member Since: 2007
Contact:

Re: Champion X not brass top Spark plugs

Post by Steve Jelf » Wed Sep 25, 2019 11:31 am

The brass hat style first appeared in 1916... The ribbed insulator appeared later.

I don't recall ever seeing a brass hat plug without ribs. Is there some original source material on that I can use to correct my Champion X page? Maybe even a picture of a brass hat without ribs? There's no such critter among my old plugs.
The inevitable often happens.
1915 Runabout
1923 Touring


Terry_007
Posts: 88
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:18 pm
First Name: Terry
Last Name: Bond
Location: Chesapeake VA
MTFCI Number: 15718

Re: Champion X not brass top Spark plugs

Post by Terry_007 » Wed Sep 25, 2019 2:09 pm

Your X page is fine. Talking strictly about the Model T, as noted in my post, "The plug shown in your photo is the early style Champion X supplied in Ts beginning in 1911. If you are into showing, these would be the correct plugs for a pre 1916 car."

I was speaking generally about the brass hat feature, which was not unique to the X plug. That earlier style of straight sided X continued to be produced and available long after introduction of the brass hat feature. I believe the legendary Rip Van Winkle T had the straight sided plugs in it. I have no info on when that newer type of X began appearing factory supplied in Model Ts but not earlier than the 1916 date.

I'll post some pics of the brass hat Champion plugs later when I get back into the garage for more Hershey packing.
Look forward to seeing you at Hershey again .
Terry


Terry_007
Posts: 88
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:18 pm
First Name: Terry
Last Name: Bond
Location: Chesapeake VA
MTFCI Number: 15718

Re: Champion X not brass top Spark plugs

Post by Terry_007 » Wed Sep 25, 2019 7:56 pm

Here are some pics - the full page Champion ad is from the Andre auto parts supply company 1916 catalog.
Also shown are pictures of a few Champion plugs from my collection that have the brass hat and unribbed insulators. Note the NOS Champion with the box, which bears the 1916 patent date. Also shown is a Champion O plug which was produced for the Overland automobile. Last picture I thought you might enjoy seeing just for contrast. This is the first Champion plug made that Albert Champion put his name on. It was produced while he was still in France. These are especially difficult to find.
See you all at Hershey.
Terry
Attachments
Champion earliest version T Forum.jpg
Champion earliest version T Forum.jpg (36.11 KiB) Viewed 523 times
Champion  brass hat no ribs insulator (T Forum).jpg
Champion brass hat no ribs insulator (T Forum).jpg (37.86 KiB) Viewed 523 times
Champion brass hat no ribs O for Overland (T Forum).jpg
Champion brass hat no ribs O for Overland (T Forum).jpg (27.96 KiB) Viewed 523 times
Champion Pat 1916 dated box brass hat no ribs.jpg
Andre plugs 1916 Andre catalog.jpg
Andre plugs 1916 Andre catalog.jpg (60.5 KiB) Viewed 523 times


Terry_007
Posts: 88
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:18 pm
First Name: Terry
Last Name: Bond
Location: Chesapeake VA
MTFCI Number: 15718

Re: Champion X not brass top Spark plugs

Post by Terry_007 » Wed Sep 25, 2019 7:58 pm

Slight oops - posted the wrong page from the 1916 Andre catalog. This one shows the brass hat, non-ribbed insulator Champion plugs clearly.
Terry
Attachments
Champion 1916 advertisement Andre catalog (T Forum).jpg
Champion 1916 advertisement Andre catalog (T Forum).jpg (51.46 KiB) Viewed 520 times


Dropacent
Posts: 664
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:39 am
First Name: Tim
Last Name: Morsher
Location: Norwalk Ohio

Re: Champion X not brass top Spark plugs

Post by Dropacent » Wed Sep 25, 2019 8:45 pm

Layden and others, if you can believe a cut from a 1916 catalog, this is what it shows. Also, there are brass top champions shown but listed for other cars. Dealer price is .33 each in quantity.
AF741805-F867-439E-AB04-43F6EE718861.jpeg


BobShirleyAtlantaTx
Posts: 55
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 12:44 am
First Name: Bob
Last Name: Shirley
Location: Atlanta Tx

Re: Champion X not brass top Spark plugs

Post by BobShirleyAtlantaTx » Thu Sep 26, 2019 8:49 am

B9B156B4-2500-4DD5-855B-D1DD24CE07F7.png
The old forums are a wealth of information. Easy to google.

Post Reply Previous topicNext topic