26-27 Roadster wood

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fordt
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26-27 Roadster wood

Post by fordt » Fri Oct 18, 2019 10:54 am

Anyone have a set of Leon Parker’s wood plan sets lying around? There is NO old wood in my current project, I know the body mounting wood is available, but I also know there’s wood in and around the door frames, seats and so on...I’m bookmarking every forum post I can find with at least a picture or so..


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Re: 26-27 Roadster wood

Post by John kuehn » Fri Oct 18, 2019 1:19 pm

You may already know but Fordwood has a picture of the wood for 26-27 Roadsters on their website. Not a lot to go on but it gives you an idea.
Maybe one day copies of Leon Parker’s T plans will be made available to buy. That will up to his family of course.


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Re: 26-27 Roadster wood

Post by Scott_Conger » Fri Oct 18, 2019 4:32 pm

Most if not all of Leon's plans were actually Mel Miller plans and were copyrighted. To this, you might wish to see Russ Furstnow's reply on this thread (last reply prior to closure of the thread): http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/50 ... 1207884220
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Re: 26-27 Roadster wood

Post by fordt » Fri Oct 18, 2019 6:05 pm

I agree completely with Russ, I also believe that most enthusiast forums are made up mostly of folks who share things without remuneration.


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Re: 26-27 Roadster wood

Post by John kuehn » Fri Oct 18, 2019 7:50 pm

I bought a set of 1919 Roadster plans from Mel Miller many years ago when he was selling them. I later sold them to a guy in Canada years later who had advertised he needed a set. I sold them to him for an agreed upon price. I believe Fordwood and the wood products company in North Carolina must use plans to make the wood kits they sell. I guess they use plans they drew up themselves or they bought from somewhere.
For a while Millers family were selling his plans after he died so the story goes. But that’s another story.


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Re: 26-27 Roadster wood

Post by Thomas-Jull » Sat Oct 19, 2019 9:16 am

I am an architect and have been contemplating drawing plans for rewooding our cars. I would not be copying Mel’s plans but would be compiling information from forum members as necessary. I have rewooded a 24 Touring but no other cars. I also own a 25 Roadster that has no upholstery in place but it’s not original wood. I would do it for the challenge and the love of the hobby so they would be free to all those that need them and would be in pdf so no shipping cost. However, I in no way wish to undermine Mel’s estate. Can anyone confirm for 100% certainty that his plans are no longer available? I would also like to hear from others about their concerns about me doing this.

Thomas

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Re: 26-27 Roadster wood

Post by DanTreace » Sat Oct 19, 2019 10:48 am

Thomas

Yours would be ambitious project, as so many bodies for the T, concentrating on the common open and closed cars would take quite a while. Doing this for free is nice, but costs will be involved in developing all the pieces, marked in dimensions, and accompanied with notes for construction details.

Mel and Leon developed stylized drawings, which when produced are protected under copyright laws by the holder. Most times, copyrights are better protected by registration and paying future fees to maintain. One would guess copyright passed with the holder, unless registered and in another's name. I recall years ago, Mel's drawings were sold by his daughter, but don't think they are still available. Lots of costs to duplicate and actually low demand to keep a full inventory of full-sized costly prints. Don't believe Leon's have been available, but could be wrong.

However, the T wood plans are just that, an individuals work. Having both Mel and Leon prints, have found Leon's to provide better descriptions and are more useful.


Leon:
IMG_4180.JPG

Mel:
IMG_4529 (750x563).jpg

So, doing your own work would not impinge on former drawings, as these plans are stylized renderings, using patterns or info by the artist.

Since you are thinking of offering on-line for free would give you freedom from any future plans of Mel's or Leon's original works being marketed by their respective family members. These works would be different.

Many may pay for printed large scale plans rather than email sketch in small format, so you would not IMO be undermining earlier works.

Ford rendering of wood in touring car:
Early T touring body wood (2).jpg
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Re: 26-27 Roadster wood

Post by Humblej » Sat Oct 19, 2019 11:12 am

Rob, there is not much to the wood in the improved roadster, and none of it is visable after upholstered, so plans or patterns may not be all that necessary. Seat back and tack strips, no structural frame like the earlier T's.
20191019_110339.jpg


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Re: 26-27 Roadster wood

Post by fordt » Sat Oct 19, 2019 1:34 pm

Isn’t there a small piece in the door hinge pillar as well? What does this piece do?,a stiffener?, a trim attachment piece?

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Re: 26-27 Roadster wood

Post by DanTreace » Sat Oct 19, 2019 2:21 pm

Yes. That strip of shaped wood is placed inside edge of hinge pillar, its there for tacking the cardboard kick panel vertical surface.
26 roadster.jpg


Note the tacks holding the worn cardboard, they are put in that wood piece.

The rest of the wood is fairly easy for the 26-27, like this one:
324870.jpg
The best way is always the simplest. The attics of the world are cluttered up with complicated failures. Henry Ford
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Re: 26-27 Roadster wood

Post by fordt » Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:12 am

Revisiting this as my Fordwood just came in. Thanks Dan! Your last picture is a big help showing the seat back ledge that the wood crossmember sits on for the vertical slats to fasten to! Is there another horizontal piece at the top that the slats fasten to, or do they just bolt/screw into the top rail tack strip?
Also, the kit came with a long board that supposedly goes into the bottom seat frame support, anyone have a picture of where/how this fastens in?
[image]
1BBB9485-8897-4455-BEE9-9F4ABB96A23E.jpeg
[/image]


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Re: 26-27 Roadster wood

Post by fordt » Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:30 am

I might have answered one of my questions by finding THIS picture of a wood vendors offering. I see it shows a “seat upper” board marked. It also helpfully shows predrilled holes so I can maybe discern fastening locations. Still need to see/find out where the “seat bottom board” and “seat side” boards go!
AA6F802A-2BC5-473A-B198-4573B58C6688.jpeg

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Re: 26-27 Roadster wood

Post by DanTreace » Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:25 pm

That front seat board fits into the seat frame, and use stove bolts to fasten, with square nuts, washers, or lock washers. These types of stove bolts are used to place the wood in the body. Some use wood screws, like the upright wood at the hinge pillar. The round head of the single slot wood screw to the metal.



This is a '26-'27 pieces together touring, using some of the new metal pieces, they are formed different from Ford original, so you have to adapt wood pieces. On this front seat board (supports the bare spring seat cushion in the center- the rest of the seat spring rides on metal framing. You bolt that seat board to the frame, upright position as shown in photo.

(Note photo is a touring, so no wood for the back rest, just a metal bar to give the back rest metal structure). The runabout uses wood verticals to support the back rest, both the wood horizontal wood strip at the top and the 3 joining upright wood back support pieces are bolted with flathead stove bolts (longer ones) thru each and also thru the wood tacking strips that go around the upper tub. Use flat head stove bolts , with the heads counter sunk into the wood tack strips, so the upholstery and top cover lay flat. Nuts are exposed on the interior wood slats but cut the bolt shanks flush, so limited exposure, the backrest spring covers them anyway.

The 'seat side' pieces are shown at the base of the hip panel, that wood is placed there, so you can tack the upholstery. Most of the wood in the '26-'27 open cars is for tacks to hold the upholstery, only a few pieces are support reasons.
100_0548 (525x350).jpg
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An original Ford seat base has 'reinforced ' mounting but the board goes the same way in, up right.

$_42.jpg
$_98.jpg

Backrest of runabout. ( on this one I added a '4th' backrest wood support, cause just to do it ;)
Back rest sping install.jpg
, but Ford used just 3 wood pieces. And, just because, didn't place the upper horizontial wood under the supports, just bolted them to the tack strip that I made of oak, figuring there was enough backrest strength anyway for the back rest spring.
The best way is always the simplest. The attics of the world are cluttered up with complicated failures. Henry Ford
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Re: 26-27 Roadster wood

Post by fordt » Tue Jan 14, 2020 2:04 pm

Perfect! I can’t thank you enough! The pictures are great. I thought that was how the seat bottom board went in, but now know it still needs some fitting to sit within the seat frame and on the subframe. Looks like your touring has some patch repairs as well, mine are extensive and the bucket of rust I started with is looking like a car at this point. Back out to the shop and a bunch of “fitting” tries to get it all back together!
Thanks again!

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Re: 26-27 Roadster wood

Post by DanTreace » Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:59 pm

Rob

Glad to help out, pictures do help when all is missing.

Yes, my '26/'27 Touring was indeed a basket case...or rather a ditch case... ;) as this body was found in a ravine in south GA.

Took many new Howell pieces and some hammer work, the right front cowl support was already welded in wrong a long time ago, and most of the rusted door hinges on the passenger side were just cut off with a torch!

But, ole Dixie was together enough to be put back on the road, and now our favorite tour T.

Body being sandblasted before (2).jpg

100_7628.jpg
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The best way is always the simplest. The attics of the world are cluttered up with complicated failures. Henry Ford
Don’t find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain. Henry Ford

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