'16 Centerdoor restore...
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Topic author - Posts: 430
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- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1922 centerdoor 1927 fordor 1916 centerdoor
- Location: Nowhere Michigan
Re: '16 Centerdoor restore...
Both doors are rebuilt and ready for another 50 years (I hope). Now the sanding begins... Mike Husted straightened me out on the rear seat so its back to being correct.
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Re: '16 Centerdoor restore...
Don,
I can't begin to tell you how much I'm enjoying this thread and your progress.
I envy guys like you that have the knowledge and skill to do what you are doing. I'm nothing but and lowly historian and should have collected stamps -- not cars! (Either way, you take a licking! )
I hope to see the centerdoor at the Old Car Festival this fall.
Marty
I can't begin to tell you how much I'm enjoying this thread and your progress.
I envy guys like you that have the knowledge and skill to do what you are doing. I'm nothing but and lowly historian and should have collected stamps -- not cars! (Either way, you take a licking! )
I hope to see the centerdoor at the Old Car Festival this fall.
Marty
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Topic author - Posts: 430
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Re: '16 Centerdoor restore...
Thank you Rich and Marty. I appreciate it, this car may take a while to complete. I'm on Facebook and a member of several vintage car groups from all over the world. My postings always ask for anyone who knows anything about the early '16 please help ! Nothing. Absolute silence. Hundreds of questions from the groups and not one single answer. My one and only source has been Mike Husted and if not for Mike I would be on my own with it. Mike has put hours and hours of time researching this freak and has come up with plenty for me to keep going on it. He and I have been having a blast with it. He even found some original wipe cord for the interior and is sending me a sample. I plan to see if my Amish friends could have it made so I can use it in the interior. Mike has been God sent and his knowledge is as priceless as his generosity. We are just having a great time and good fun with it. Priceless.....priceless~
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Re: '16 Centerdoor restore...
A real work of Art Thanks for taking us with you on this journey
1922 Coupe & 1927 Touring
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Topic author - Posts: 430
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Re: '16 Centerdoor restore...
Stage 1 of the body work is done. Now on to the fine tuning and weeks of sanding.
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Re: '16 Centerdoor restore...
That is most awesome! Thanks for sharing with us
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Re: '16 Centerdoor restore...
I need to take a road trip....
William L Vanderburg
1925 Touring
1922 Center Door Sedan
1925 Touring
1922 Center Door Sedan
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Topic author - Posts: 430
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Re: '16 Centerdoor restore...
Decided to get the top sealed today. West Epoxy and fiberglass matting should last many many decades.
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Topic author - Posts: 430
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Re: '16 Centerdoor restore...
More......
Last edited by FordorGalore on Sun Feb 23, 2020 5:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: '16 Centerdoor restore...
Don,
What happens next to the top? Is it just painted to match the car or do you add the long grain cobra product on top of your fiberglass?
What happens next to the top? Is it just painted to match the car or do you add the long grain cobra product on top of your fiberglass?
1922 Coupe & 1927 Touring
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Topic author - Posts: 430
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Re: '16 Centerdoor restore...
The top will be sanded and painted. However, I know the later centerdoors had a 5 or 6 inch border of leatherette that encircled the top. It gave the appearance of the top being covered but it actually wasn't. I don't know if the 15-16 Centerdoors had that or not. If you look at the picture of the all the Centerdoors at the factory, I don't see any evidence of that leatherette border. I will have to wait and see what the experts think. Jus part of the fun Denny...
Well, I wasn't going to post this. Some folks get emotional when they see how I do things. "Henry didn't do that!!" and they are absolutely correct. But i'm not Henry and I tend to build these cars using marine materials and methods. For instance this top is a "floating top" design. My thinking is it needs to flex and absorb shock yet be structurally sound. It also needs to be light weight so the car isn't as top heavy. It also has to be tied to the metal which means two materials that expand and contract at different rates need to get along. This is my way of doing that.
Well, I wasn't going to post this. Some folks get emotional when they see how I do things. "Henry didn't do that!!" and they are absolutely correct. But i'm not Henry and I tend to build these cars using marine materials and methods. For instance this top is a "floating top" design. My thinking is it needs to flex and absorb shock yet be structurally sound. It also needs to be light weight so the car isn't as top heavy. It also has to be tied to the metal which means two materials that expand and contract at different rates need to get along. This is my way of doing that.
Last edited by FordorGalore on Sat Feb 29, 2020 5:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Topic author - Posts: 430
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Re: '16 Centerdoor restore...
A complete lost for words to explain how indebted and humbled I am. Jim Perry from Minneapolis called me and said he had an original set of carriage lights for my 15-16 and he wanted to see them mounted on my car. He said THAT is where they belong. He had looked for a 15-16 Centerdoor most of his life and never found one. OHH MY GOD !!! How can I possibly thank him for one of the most wonderful jesters I have ever received ? Words don't get it done ! Help me out here fella's, i'm on the floor and I can't get up !
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Re: '16 Centerdoor restore...
Don, there are some wonderful people in the model T brotherhood. It sounds like Jim is one of the best. Thanks Jim for adding to this great build. Thanks for sharing it with us Don.
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Re: '16 Centerdoor restore...
Don,
You will never know how much you have given to so many of us on this forum. You will also never know how many more you will have helped over the years in the future. You will never know exactly how much all those people do/will appreciate what you have done.
Good people will receive Good in return. Jim Perry has shown you just how much some of us appreciate your efforts on our behalves. Thank you BOTH for all you have done and for showing just how closely knit the members of this forum can be. You have both shown the true meaning of "Brotherhood", not just between you two but between us ALL.
Thank You,
Terry Miller
You will never know how much you have given to so many of us on this forum. You will also never know how many more you will have helped over the years in the future. You will never know exactly how much all those people do/will appreciate what you have done.
Good people will receive Good in return. Jim Perry has shown you just how much some of us appreciate your efforts on our behalves. Thank you BOTH for all you have done and for showing just how closely knit the members of this forum can be. You have both shown the true meaning of "Brotherhood", not just between you two but between us ALL.
Thank You,
Terry Miller
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Topic author - Posts: 430
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Re: '16 Centerdoor restore...
Wow, thank you so much Terry, very kind of you to say that. But its a two way street as far as helping out. I have made some of the best friends life can provide. Mike Husted has just been wonderful sharing his knowledge and keeping me straight with this project. Yesterday I received a call from Galen West from Oregon and he had some questions about the centerdoor and coupe he is restoring. What a interesting man, we talked for close to an hour. Galen was a Alaskan commercial fisherman his entire working life. I just made another great, great friend. He lives just across the border near Mike. We are so lucky to live in an age that communication is second nature, simply taken for granted. Mike helps me and I help Galen, and on and on, its how it should be. Society at its best !!!
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Re: '16 Centerdoor restore...
Tight is right but this is ridiculous !! Time to get the file out ….
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Re: '16 Centerdoor restore...
Wonderful thread. I haven’t read every one, Don. Do you know if this is a fisher body?
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Re: '16 Centerdoor restore...
Tim, I don't. It has the indent in the bottom of the front pillars but nobody has confirmed if that designates the maker like on the later C-doors. Maybe someone out there knows but its been silent both here and the 14 Model t and vintage car groups on FaceBook. Rather strange, Mike Husted has generously spent hours educating me on this time period. I just learned today that the horn button is also the headlight switch. Mike is such a amazing encyclopedia on the history of this time period. I wish everyone could listen in on our conversations, just flipping amazing. I owe him more than I could ever repay, just love that guy !!!
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Re: '16 Centerdoor restore...
On the horn button combo,I was under the impression that this was not used until late 17 . My un restored 17 still has the separate button on the top of the steering column and the lite switch button on the firewall.
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Topic author - Posts: 430
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Re: '16 Centerdoor restore...
Jim, Mike Husted had me check the horn button out for a 15-16. It does have 4 connections on it and the button has the rib style knobs on the outside edge. He explained that by turning the horn button the low beams come on. The light switch on the firewall is pulled out for high beams. NOW, I may have that backwards as high or low beams on the horn button. Mike called twice today and the amount of information is just amazing, that guy is as sharp as a tack. We also discussed the wiring for the carriage lamps. The mag only system was plagued with many problems as far as the light system goes. I wish my history teachers would have been 1/10th as knowledgeable as Mike is. I just love listening to the guy, its FUN !!
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Topic author - Posts: 430
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Re: '16 Centerdoor restore...
I should have added that this has two bulb sockets on the passenger side headlight and one socket on the driver side headlight. I should also admit I haven't gotten close to really figuring out any electrical on this thing. So don't hold me too it Jim. Maybe Mike Husted could chine in on the subject.
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Topic author - Posts: 430
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Re: '16 Centerdoor restore...
This is the continuation of the top build. (above post). Please don't take this as any thing other than how I prefer to do it. I estimate the top weighs about 30 lbs total and has the flex and structural strength as aluminum the same thickness. I have built several flybridges for boats using this method and they have never shown any, ANY sign of failure over 3 decades of use and exposure. No brag, just fact.
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Topic author - Posts: 430
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Topic author - Posts: 430
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Re: '16 Centerdoor restore...
Decided its time to try her new dress. See what needs to be nipped and tucked. Honestly its sitting better than I imagined. What a relief, I tend to stare until I see double. Now I can actually know what all this work may produce.
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Re: '16 Centerdoor restore...
Oh Ya! You are moving fast! What a great look. The centerdoor is my favorite body.
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Re: '16 Centerdoor restore...
Not related to this build, but a funny Centerdoor story. Last year a friend and I were walking through the car corral at Hershey and there were a couple of guys sitting in a Model T Centerdoor checking it out. The passenger was twisting this way and that and we overheard him asking the other guy, "how do I get out of this thing?"
Mark Strange
Hillsboro, MO
1924 Cut-off Touring (now a pickup)
Hillsboro, MO
1924 Cut-off Touring (now a pickup)
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Topic author - Posts: 430
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Re: '16 Centerdoor restore...
LOL Mark, I hear that every time I take someone for a ride. But they ALWAYS have a big smile on their faces and almost ALWAYS have a genuine giggle going on. It really adds to their experience and that's a good thing. LOL !!
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Re: '16 Centerdoor restore...
Don,
She is looking GREAT. I'll say it again: You're doing an outstanding job and we all appreciate it.
Did you have the original rain gutter or did you have to replace it? I don't have the gutter for ours and have been wondering about options.
Thanks,
Terry
She is looking GREAT. I'll say it again: You're doing an outstanding job and we all appreciate it.
Did you have the original rain gutter or did you have to replace it? I don't have the gutter for ours and have been wondering about options.
Thanks,
Terry
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Fisher. '16 Centerdoor restore...
Don, if you do find out it’s a fisher body, I’ll be glad to send you a very early fisher body tag. The Fisher brothers were all born in my town, Norwalk, Ohio
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Topic author - Posts: 430
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Re: '16 Centerdoor restore...
Terry, it is the original rain gutter and thank goodness. The gutter was extremely handy to determine the dimensions of the overhang. The overhang was a question to many but the gutter answered that one. It also gave me a measurement of the length of the top. It was beat up and I had to do some twisting and bending to clean it up but I didn't mind, I don't know how else I would have gotten solid information otherwise.
Tim, thank you so much for the offer. But much to my amazement not one person has offered any information on who the body builder may have been. And this project has been posted to over a dozen vintage/model t groups all over the world on FaceBook. The fact is if it weren't for my wonderful friend Mike Husted there would be NO information on it. NONE !! Never would I have thought that possible. The most common response is it is a transitional car and there are very few known to exist. I guess its a good thing, bad thing. Either way it keeps life interesting.
Tim, thank you so much for the offer. But much to my amazement not one person has offered any information on who the body builder may have been. And this project has been posted to over a dozen vintage/model t groups all over the world on FaceBook. The fact is if it weren't for my wonderful friend Mike Husted there would be NO information on it. NONE !! Never would I have thought that possible. The most common response is it is a transitional car and there are very few known to exist. I guess its a good thing, bad thing. Either way it keeps life interesting.
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Topic author - Posts: 430
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Re: '16 Centerdoor restore...
Here are some pictures that my friend sent me on FaceBook. He owns an original 1915 Centerdoor and its a beauty !! Thank you Chris !!
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Topic author - Posts: 430
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Topic author - Posts: 430
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Re: '16 Centerdoor restore...
Wow great progress on this challenging puzzle from days of old. Your skills and attitude and other centered thinking are amazing. I want to come over and see this beauty—I’ll call you first
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Topic author - Posts: 430
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Re: '16 Centerdoor restore...
You are ALWAYS welcome Joe, ALWAYS !! Besides, I would like to pick your brain on a few things. Be safe my friend !!
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Topic author - Posts: 430
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Re: '16 Centerdoor restore...
After many hours of grunts, groans, cuss words and moans.....the floorboards are in.
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Re: '16 Centerdoor restore...
It is nice to see that the fun continues. I may look at these photos the rest of the day.
Seeing your progress takes away the hurt of the one I missed out on 5 1/2 years ago.
Thanks for posting.
Rich
Seeing your progress takes away the hurt of the one I missed out on 5 1/2 years ago.
Thanks for posting.
Rich
When did I do that?
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Re: '16 Centerdoor restore...
Super nice job!
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Re: '16 Centerdoor restore...
HEY !! It's "Floorboard Friday" !! This makes TWO "Floorboard Friday's"..... errrruugg ~~
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Re: '16 Centerdoor restore...
There's a side light on Ebay right now similar to the really nice ones you acquired. Advertised as "1915 centerdoor" light. It's up to a $3.25 bid! If the beveled glass is the same it might not be bad to have on hand in case of an accidental breakage.
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Topic author - Posts: 430
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Re: '16 Centerdoor restore...
Thanks Dave, I've been watching that one. It looks to be a bit different in shape. Also the mount is different. If the bids make it possible I may just pick it up and see if it works for parts. Thank you !!
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Re: '16 Centerdoor restore...
I have never seen these lamps before and have never seen a picture of a centre door with them ,are the factory or an accessory . I think bob showed one on here to, just wondering. cheers Colin
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Re: '16 Centerdoor restore...
Don,
That car is outstanding and I can't wait to see it on the road.
I've been following your progress very closely ever since you started this thread and I've been saving up my money in order to make you and offer so I have $2.67 a shirt button and some pocket lint. I may have had a little bit more but there was a sale down at the Beer Barn.
That car is outstanding and I can't wait to see it on the road.
I've been following your progress very closely ever since you started this thread and I've been saving up my money in order to make you and offer so I have $2.67 a shirt button and some pocket lint. I may have had a little bit more but there was a sale down at the Beer Barn.
1922 Coupe & 1927 Touring
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Re: '16 Centerdoor restore...
Colon, they were a dealer add-on to attract buyers.
Kete Perry, got any toilet paper? LOL...
Kete Perry, got any toilet paper? LOL...
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Re: '16 Centerdoor restore...
Very nice!! Thanks so much for sharing.
24-28 TA race car, 26 Canadian touring, 25 Roadster pickup, 14 Roadster, and 11AB Maxwell runabout
Keep it simple and keep a good junk pile if you want to invent something
Keep it simple and keep a good junk pile if you want to invent something
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Re: '16 Centerdoor restore...
I am really, really enjoying this thread. I really wish I had your skill and patience. As my other antique car owners friends tell me, given my mechanical ability: "You should collect stamps, not cars!" To which I reply, "Either way, I'd take a lickin'"
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Topic author - Posts: 430
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Re: '16 Centerdoor restore...
Thanks guys, always appreciate the kind words.
Marty, the trick is to have no life outside of my little white barn. LOL...
I talked with Mike Husted today and wanted to ask him some wiring questions. He pointed out that the carriage lights were NEVER wired to work and it said so in the sales brochure. So once again I have learned something about this car's history. The 15-16's had some serious wiring issues along with most of the mag only electric light cars. Such a neat hobby that gives a history lesson offered nowhere else. Love it !!
Marty, the trick is to have no life outside of my little white barn. LOL...
I talked with Mike Husted today and wanted to ask him some wiring questions. He pointed out that the carriage lights were NEVER wired to work and it said so in the sales brochure. So once again I have learned something about this car's history. The 15-16's had some serious wiring issues along with most of the mag only electric light cars. Such a neat hobby that gives a history lesson offered nowhere else. Love it !!
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Re: '16 Centerdoor restore...
I found this little book while cleaning out more of Dads stuff and it turns out I have a pic of the centre door lights
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Re: '16 Centerdoor restore...
Colon, that's a neat picture ! I see those lights have a different mounting bracket but it is a artist rendition of the '15. Thanks for posting !
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Re: '16 Centerdoor restore...
That picture of a center-door sedan is one of at least two prototypes built by Ford to explore the idea of offering enclosed body cars as a regular production item. I believe that one of the body manufacturing companies offered a couple of their standard body offerings used by several other automobile manufacturing companies to Ford to experiment with. The early "true" '15 model T center-door sedans were somewhat different. Notice this car has special front fenders, louvers the full length of the hood, and gas headlamps mounted higher than standard. Nobody knows exactly how many such prototypes were built, but there were at least two of them. We know this because at least one photo exists (I don't have a copy of it myself) showing two of the cars. However, details vary quite a bit in the numerous other photos, different fenders, different lamps, etc. It is not believed that many prototypes were built, but that Ford's experimenters changed fenders etc trying out different looks.
In the production early '15 sedans, the rear fenders were special, attached directly to the body instead of onto a fender post or standing iron as the standard fender was. The '15 production body was still aluminum skinned, and slightly smaller than the prototypes, but still had elegant interiors and a fancy three panel combination windshield and visor.
The '16 and later c-d sedans were steel skinned, had a simpler and cheaper interior and a simple windshield, all things to lower the cost for Ford's customers.
Ford outsourced basically ALL bodies during the brass era. The companies providing the center-door sedan bodies also provided bodies including coupes and sedans for other automobile manufacturers during the era. Maxwell offered a center-door sedan in '15/'16 and I think '17 that the body was nearly identical to the model T's c-d sedan.
In the production early '15 sedans, the rear fenders were special, attached directly to the body instead of onto a fender post or standing iron as the standard fender was. The '15 production body was still aluminum skinned, and slightly smaller than the prototypes, but still had elegant interiors and a fancy three panel combination windshield and visor.
The '16 and later c-d sedans were steel skinned, had a simpler and cheaper interior and a simple windshield, all things to lower the cost for Ford's customers.
Ford outsourced basically ALL bodies during the brass era. The companies providing the center-door sedan bodies also provided bodies including coupes and sedans for other automobile manufacturers during the era. Maxwell offered a center-door sedan in '15/'16 and I think '17 that the body was nearly identical to the model T's c-d sedan.
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Re: '16 Centerdoor restore...
Interesting stuff Wayne, thanks for sharing it.
So, I am missing 8 window rollers. I had to come up with something the correct size and couldn't find a thing. I ended up making them out of 1/4" copper tubing and gas hose. I used a flaring tool and flattened the ends up a bit to tighten the rubber up. Seems to have worked out ok. What do you think?
So, I am missing 8 window rollers. I had to come up with something the correct size and couldn't find a thing. I ended up making them out of 1/4" copper tubing and gas hose. I used a flaring tool and flattened the ends up a bit to tighten the rubber up. Seems to have worked out ok. What do you think?
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Re: '16 Centerdoor restore...
Looks fine to me. Les
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Re: '16 Centerdoor restore...
The side windows was one of the several things REALLY messed up on my car when I got it. I did say it was a bad '50s restoration. All the side windows had been replaced with clear plastic sheeting! Cut to fit-NOT. The curves on the top were off by half an inch. Edges were rough. Common '50s car window channeling with the metal edges (supposed to be hidden in a tight fitting modern door) were exposed. The channeling flopped around. Some sort of home made lift straps were screwed onto the bottom of the windows through holes drilled in the plastic. Except for the steel pieces attached to the outer-bottom of the wooden window frames, NONE of the original hardware, like the special steel channels the bottom of the glass was supposed to be set in, was there.
I think the previous restorer was so afraid of that "glass cage" that he simply eliminated it with "nice safe plastic".
But, fortunately, the pieces attached at the bottom of the wooden frames being there, helped as a guide for what I needed. I looked at a couple good c-d sedans, talked with people that had restored them. Nobody had any spare pieces, not even a loose window for me to look at. But it seemed simple enough. I could see enough of the curved lip on the outside of that lower glass channel for me to make a reasonable copy. So I made six "S" shaped channels, added an attaching piece below it, and had a glass shop make glass from cardboard patterns I had fit into the window frames. I made my own foam and Naugahyde soft channels and glued them to the sides of the windows. (Anybody not familiar with the center-door about now is going "WHaa---".) It actually took quite a bit of trial and error to get those soft channels to look, fit, and work near properly. When I did the upholstery, I made straps out of the same material, put in eyelets and screws where old holes indicated they belonged.
When I was done, the windows lifted and slid down easily, didn't rattle much when driving, hooked onto the lower window frame nicely to stay up, and hung nicely on the straps at appropriate levels. And they looked wonderful and clear, just like they were supposed to.
So I guess your rollers look great! But how would I know? My car didn't have them! (But maybe it was supposed to?)
I think the previous restorer was so afraid of that "glass cage" that he simply eliminated it with "nice safe plastic".
But, fortunately, the pieces attached at the bottom of the wooden frames being there, helped as a guide for what I needed. I looked at a couple good c-d sedans, talked with people that had restored them. Nobody had any spare pieces, not even a loose window for me to look at. But it seemed simple enough. I could see enough of the curved lip on the outside of that lower glass channel for me to make a reasonable copy. So I made six "S" shaped channels, added an attaching piece below it, and had a glass shop make glass from cardboard patterns I had fit into the window frames. I made my own foam and Naugahyde soft channels and glued them to the sides of the windows. (Anybody not familiar with the center-door about now is going "WHaa---".) It actually took quite a bit of trial and error to get those soft channels to look, fit, and work near properly. When I did the upholstery, I made straps out of the same material, put in eyelets and screws where old holes indicated they belonged.
When I was done, the windows lifted and slid down easily, didn't rattle much when driving, hooked onto the lower window frame nicely to stay up, and hung nicely on the straps at appropriate levels. And they looked wonderful and clear, just like they were supposed to.
So I guess your rollers look great! But how would I know? My car didn't have them! (But maybe it was supposed to?)
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Re: '16 Centerdoor restore...
Don,
What holds your windows up? I have a '22 Coupe and the two rear side window have rollers on them too but the rollers were mounted to a tension spring that pushed the rubber roller against the glass. The pull strap doesn't hold the window in place and I'm having a tough time keeping spring tension on the glass to hold it in place. Did your's have a spring?
Denny
What holds your windows up? I have a '22 Coupe and the two rear side window have rollers on them too but the rollers were mounted to a tension spring that pushed the rubber roller against the glass. The pull strap doesn't hold the window in place and I'm having a tough time keeping spring tension on the glass to hold it in place. Did your's have a spring?
Denny
1922 Coupe & 1927 Touring
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Re: '16 Centerdoor restore...
Yes Wayne just yesterday I got all the safety glass back from the glass shop. This morning I went out to find one was cracked and ran that back to the glass cutter. But I've been racking my brain trying to figure out how the heck will I duplicate these window frames? I bought some #10 canvas and I have all but three pieces of the felt stuffing (it takes 12). When I took the old worn out weather stripping apart it didn't appear to be glued to the steel window frame. The only thing holding it in place was the canvas was packed into the top of the window frame and also at the bottom just above the bottom steel frame. So, what to do? I may have to get some good glue and try to apply the canvas to the steel frame. Any help on this would be wonderful...
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Re: '16 Centerdoor restore...
Dennis, the windows pull up past a metal plate and then you push them slightly outward and let the window down. The bottom of the window frame has a channel that slides down over the metal plate and holds the window up. I will take some pictures of it tomorrow and post them. So to open the window you lift it up and pull it in slightly and the window slides down. These windows are either full open or full closed, no in between.
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Re: '16 Centerdoor restore...
This restoration is very intesting and full of detail. Thank you for sharing with us all.
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Re: '16 Centerdoor restore...
Don, On my window frames , The canvas materiel wraps around the felt pad and glues into the window frame making the seal and pad for the glass.The glass actually holds the pad and canvas in place.The ends are tucked in before the glass is slid into place. When you disassemble your window frames, you will see the process. Instead of canvas, I used convertible top canvas. It is ruberized on the inside and is very tough on the outside and so far 20 years has not faded it. I think it is called Harrtz cloth. I used glass setting tape in the metal frame at the bottom of the glass.
Your rollers look spot on. They guide the window frame up and down smooth
Your rollers look spot on. They guide the window frame up and down smooth
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Re: '16 Centerdoor restore...
Les thanks, I think that's how I will try to do these. When I took off the weather stripping it was one piece. The underside was sewn down the middle. That's what is confusing me. If the canvas was tucked into the frame then how could it be one piece? I wish I had taken some pictures of the weather stripping after I had removed it but, I didn't and it was tossed.
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Re: '16 Centerdoor restore...
Ok, I did save a piece of the weather stripping. Note that this is cut full length so I could save the felt padding. Also note that the picture shows just how much material was stuffed into the metal frame from the top. Talk to me....
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Re: '16 Centerdoor restore...
I'm working on the window fitment now. I had to fab the window stays but it seems to be coming along ok. Some tweaking here and there and that's expected. Keep in mind I have to build this thing before I get into the final finish work.
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Re: '16 Centerdoor restore...
I found a picture of a 1912 Model t with a full louvered hood as in the picture of the 15 centre door
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Re: '16 Centerdoor restore...
Interesting Colin. Well not much of a quarantine effect on this project. Got all the windows in, which is a relief considering having no patterns for the wood.
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Re: '16 Centerdoor restore...
Colin M et al, Louvered hoods were sold as after-market items soon after the '09s hit the streets. In Australia, hoods were stamped with louvers when new and sold that way on new cars. Nobody I think knows for certain the reason why. However, speculation has been that with such a large portion of the country being the Outback, cooling concerns may have played a part.
A funny story. I have a hood just like that one on the pictured '12. I picked it up several years ago for my '15 project. I already had a hood for my '15, but it was in really poor shape. Edges were worn away, most of the small pieces (leather holding channels, hood clip reinforcements) were missing. It was badly deformed, but it was cheap and I figured I could fix it up. When this one came along, it looked so much better. Fairly straight, all the pieces in place. It needed some repair work, but not nearly half as much. And the price was right.
Fast forward a few years, I am finally working on the '15. It almost looks like a car. And I am to the point where it is time to begin to make the hood look nice. I actually grab both of them. Yeah, I definitely want to make nice the better one. However, for the first time, I looked a little closer. There are more louvers than normal '15 hoods have. I still want use it. I begin cleaning it and straightening the minor mis-bends. I am working it on the car with a temporary radiator, but something isn't fitting okay. The side hinges are too long. They sit up on the hood former. Comes the dawn. It is an early hood, with louvers! The early hood former has indentations for the hinge to set into!
The really bad '15 hood? Looks pretty nice now.
(Hey there Phil L if you read this? I decided to use the one I had because I have tried to use as many original era parts as I could, so for that reason---, call me crazy.)
I do have a '12 project pile. Maybe I can use the early louvered hood on that?
A funny story. I have a hood just like that one on the pictured '12. I picked it up several years ago for my '15 project. I already had a hood for my '15, but it was in really poor shape. Edges were worn away, most of the small pieces (leather holding channels, hood clip reinforcements) were missing. It was badly deformed, but it was cheap and I figured I could fix it up. When this one came along, it looked so much better. Fairly straight, all the pieces in place. It needed some repair work, but not nearly half as much. And the price was right.
Fast forward a few years, I am finally working on the '15. It almost looks like a car. And I am to the point where it is time to begin to make the hood look nice. I actually grab both of them. Yeah, I definitely want to make nice the better one. However, for the first time, I looked a little closer. There are more louvers than normal '15 hoods have. I still want use it. I begin cleaning it and straightening the minor mis-bends. I am working it on the car with a temporary radiator, but something isn't fitting okay. The side hinges are too long. They sit up on the hood former. Comes the dawn. It is an early hood, with louvers! The early hood former has indentations for the hinge to set into!
The really bad '15 hood? Looks pretty nice now.
(Hey there Phil L if you read this? I decided to use the one I had because I have tried to use as many original era parts as I could, so for that reason---, call me crazy.)
I do have a '12 project pile. Maybe I can use the early louvered hood on that?
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Re: '16 Centerdoor restore...
Don, you are a whirlwind. It looks great. Keep it up so we have something to look at when we are all stuck at home. Ok, now I need to go to the shop. You have inspired me!
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Re: '16 Centerdoor restore...
Thanks Wayne our model t population is very depleted in my circle and in the early day as a kid I did not pay attention to the detail. I did ride in a lot of cool cars, when on tour my brother and I would hitch a ride on the out going tour and come back with Mom And Dad in the later year I got to drive alot of cool cars ,only in the last 10 years have I gotten into the detail of the model t. More so since Dad past now I have all the stories and as I clean out the garage I find stuff a then remember the story that goes with it Cheers Colin
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Re: '16 Centerdoor restore...
Don you are doing an outstanding job on this car, but I fear your going to need more cars because at this rate you will be done by June . We knew a guy have would restore 5 model A at one time in the winter months, I am not than fast. great job Cheers Colin
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Re: '16 Centerdoor restore...
Recently picked up some neat Floyd Clymer publications I didn’t have for my collection. They were purchased from Ralph Fitz-Gerald on this site. This is a neat cover of Floyd’s model T #1, showing the sedan. Those side lights are just off the wall neat, and I’d say worth building a car around. They couldn’t have gone to a more worthy project or craftsman! It blows my mind Henry would offer something like that, but having seen the quality first hand of the early style coupes, they were after an upscale market, however small. Just 5 years earlier they had trouble finding buyers for those plate glass death traps. I cannot wait to see Don’s interior restoration.
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Re: '16 Centerdoor restore...
Cool pictures Tim, do you have any blue prints? LOL !!
Trial fitting the windshield, the glass is safety glass put in by someone else. The lines aren't straight, it will have to do for now, just adds to the bliss of hit and miss.
Trial fitting the windshield, the glass is safety glass put in by someone else. The lines aren't straight, it will have to do for now, just adds to the bliss of hit and miss.
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Blueprints ? 16 Centerdoor restore...
blueprints, what blueprints? YOU DON’T NEED NO STINKIN’ BLUEPRINTS! I’d say you are pretty close to being able to draw them up, Don, for the mere mortals. It should be noted of all the model Ts in the world, a living legend like Floyd Clymer would put a center door on Vol l model T ford issue.
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Re: '16 Centerdoor restore...
Did some epoxy priming and just had to mock the beast up. It's starting to look like something....what? I dunno~
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Re: '16 Centerdoor restore...
Amazing! Simply amazing! The quality and speed and craftsmanship -- amazing!!!
Don, I had better see this at OCF this year -- and I want a ride!!!
Don, I had better see this at OCF this year -- and I want a ride!!!
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Re: '16 Centerdoor restore...
Marty, if I can't find a hood former.....it won't happen.
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Re: '16 Centerdoor restore...
Still no hood former? I thought you got one a few months ago?
I do have one I am not currently using, but may need later. And believe me, you don't really want to fix it up. Most of the metal is there (but not all!), and it is twisted more than a bit!
But if push comes to shove?
I do have one I am not currently using, but may need later. And believe me, you don't really want to fix it up. Most of the metal is there (but not all!), and it is twisted more than a bit!
But if push comes to shove?
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Re: '16 Centerdoor restore...
Don, best of luck finding a good hood former. I bought the one for my 15 tourer at the Spokane swap meet in 1989. It was really nice but didn't fit well. To get the best hood fit I ended up brazing a solid steel piece behind the badly worn hole which locates the hood hinge pin. Then the hood was mounted on the radiator and manipulated to get the best compromise for an acceptable fit. The hole in the former for the centre hinge rod ended up being drilled some 5/16" to one side and 1/4" higher than central. It really wasn't that noticeble once painted and fitted in place.
Hope this helps.
Allan from down under.
Hope this helps.
Allan from down under.
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Re: '16 Centerdoor restore...
Wayne I called the fella and he "thought" he had one. He was going to check and I haven't heard a word since. The only other one I know of is in Australia and shipping alone would be cost prohibitive. So the search is still on...
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Re: '16 Centerdoor restore...
Don, I wish I had not missed that you need one. I saw one for sale not long ago listed under the wrong year but don't remember where it was. If I find one will let you know.
Give an old car guy a barn and he won't throw anything away.
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Re: '16 Centerdoor restore...
Thank you Bob, I may have something lined up. It looks promising at this point. I appreciate your kind thoughts ! Keeping my fingers crossed, my respirator on, washing my hands and staying in the barn !!
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Re: '16 Centerdoor restore...
Work'n on its former self, the hood former that is. Special thanks to Steve Meixner for offering up 3 hood formers. Mighty fine deal !!
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Re: '16 Centerdoor restore...
That looks amazing. Everything looks like it fits like it should.
Give an old car guy a barn and he won't throw anything away.
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Re: '16 Centerdoor restore...
Now THAT is looking really good! Glad to see you finally have a hood former,and a nice one!
And thank you Steve M!
And thank you Steve M!
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Re: '16 Centerdoor restore...
Thank you Bob.
Wayne see that hole in the hood former just above the hood rod hole? Would that be for another firewall bolt?
Wayne see that hole in the hood former just above the hood rod hole? Would that be for another firewall bolt?
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Re: '16 Centerdoor restore...
All I can say is WOW! If i lived closer I would droll on this car in person but since I don't I droll on my computer screen and for some reason it keeps shorting out!
Beautiful car with fantastic craftsmenship
Beautiful car with fantastic craftsmenship
1922 Coupe & 1927 Touring
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- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1915 Runabout 1913 Speedster
- Location: Grass Valley California, USA
- Board Member Since: 2005
Re: '16 Centerdoor restore...
Hey there Don B!
Neither the one on my '15 runabout nor the beat up rusty spare for a future project have that hole on them. And no sign there ever was a hole there. If memory serves, the early '16 center-door sedan I used to have didn't have a hole there either.
So I would guess it was added at some time in its past for some unknown reason. I would recommend a simple repair and nice paint over it.
I sure enjoy looking at the photos of the progress you have made with this car! Simply wonderful.
Neither the one on my '15 runabout nor the beat up rusty spare for a future project have that hole on them. And no sign there ever was a hole there. If memory serves, the early '16 center-door sedan I used to have didn't have a hole there either.
So I would guess it was added at some time in its past for some unknown reason. I would recommend a simple repair and nice paint over it.
I sure enjoy looking at the photos of the progress you have made with this car! Simply wonderful.
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Topic author - Posts: 430
- Joined: Fri May 03, 2019 8:20 am
- First Name: fore
- Last Name: door
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1922 centerdoor 1927 fordor 1916 centerdoor
- Location: Nowhere Michigan
Re: '16 Centerdoor restore...
Thank you Wayne, I hadn't seen a center bolt on the others either. I will take your advice and plug it !! I assume also the firewall brackets have to be installed before I can make the former permanent? Hope you are stay'n home and healthy...
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- Posts: 3678
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 3:13 pm
- First Name: Wayne
- Last Name: Sheldon
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1915 Runabout 1913 Speedster
- Location: Grass Valley California, USA
- Board Member Since: 2005
Re: '16 Centerdoor restore...
When I was working on the runabout a year or so ago, I had "misplaced" the frame to firewall brackets I had for it. So I wound up putting the firewall and hood former onto the body without the brackets in place. I couldn't afford to buy new brackets at the time and was trying to fit a bunch of things together. Eventually, i found one lone extra, a broken cast brass copy. About a week later, I made both a right and a left bracket using scraps of steel, and about two whole brazing rods (they came out looking really good!). Then I fought them into place, and followed that by fighting the bolts and tightening the nuts (the worst part!).
I suspect that bolting the brackets onto the firewall before sliding the hood former into place would be much easier.
Of course, only a few days after getting all that done, I found the missing brackets while looking for something else.
Oh well. At least I have the brackets for the "future" project. If I live long enough.
I suspect that bolting the brackets onto the firewall before sliding the hood former into place would be much easier.
Of course, only a few days after getting all that done, I found the missing brackets while looking for something else.
Oh well. At least I have the brackets for the "future" project. If I live long enough.
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Topic author - Posts: 430
- Joined: Fri May 03, 2019 8:20 am
- First Name: fore
- Last Name: door
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1922 centerdoor 1927 fordor 1916 centerdoor
- Location: Nowhere Michigan
Re: '16 Centerdoor restore...
Thanks to Steve Meixner up in the snow banks of northern Minnesota, I received the firewall brackets today. Decided to get right into it. Somewhat of a forced argument that I eventually won !! Sliding the hood former down over the firewall after installing the brackets is definitely the way to go. It squared everything up rather nicely. Kind of a nice way to spend another day of being grounded....
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Topic author - Posts: 430
- Joined: Fri May 03, 2019 8:20 am
- First Name: fore
- Last Name: door
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1922 centerdoor 1927 fordor 1916 centerdoor
- Location: Nowhere Michigan
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- Posts: 3678
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 3:13 pm
- First Name: Wayne
- Last Name: Sheldon
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1915 Runabout 1913 Speedster
- Location: Grass Valley California, USA
- Board Member Since: 2005
Re: '16 Centerdoor restore...
Looking good! Sounds like it went together nicely. I had to do some tweaking to get the cowl and hood former to line up and fit together. My runabout had been "messed with" rather badly a couple decades before I got it, bad welding, and an apparent attempt to build a "bucket T" which fortunately was going badly enough that whoever quit before totally destroying the salvageable original '15 body. My runabout will never be a show car. But I don't need one of those anyway.
Glad to see yours went together so well!
Glad to see yours went together so well!
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Topic author - Posts: 430
- Joined: Fri May 03, 2019 8:20 am
- First Name: fore
- Last Name: door
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1922 centerdoor 1927 fordor 1916 centerdoor
- Location: Nowhere Michigan
Re: '16 Centerdoor restore...
Wayne you gave me good information !! Sliding the hood former down over the firewall made it a piece of cake. The only problem I had was the rear crossmember of the wood body base frame was exactly 1/2" too wide. I had to make cutouts for the rear spring clamps so the body would slide 1/2" forward to make contact with the firewall brackets. I suppose it could have been worse but the guy that restores with original wood for patterns should appreciate those patterns. I know I will if there is a next time.
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- Posts: 1565
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:46 am
- First Name: Dennis
- Last Name: Seth
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1922 Coupe 1927 Touring
- Location: Jefferson Ohio
Re: '16 Centerdoor restore...
I'm glad you found the missing piece you need to complete this car and it looks fanTasTic.
I know you'll be excited to learn that someone has a Centerdoor (in pieces) for sale in the classified section. So hurry and get your butt in gear and get this one done so you can buy the other one!
Stop eating M&M's and get to work!
I know you'll be excited to learn that someone has a Centerdoor (in pieces) for sale in the classified section. So hurry and get your butt in gear and get this one done so you can buy the other one!
Stop eating M&M's and get to work!
1922 Coupe & 1927 Touring
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Topic author - Posts: 430
- Joined: Fri May 03, 2019 8:20 am
- First Name: fore
- Last Name: door
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1922 centerdoor 1927 fordor 1916 centerdoor
- Location: Nowhere Michigan
Re: '16 Centerdoor restore...
Mr. Hairy Pete, you are waiving M&M's at a chocoholic !! How does it feel to STILL be grounded as an adult???
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Topic author - Posts: 430
- Joined: Fri May 03, 2019 8:20 am
- First Name: fore
- Last Name: door
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1922 centerdoor 1927 fordor 1916 centerdoor
- Location: Nowhere Michigan
Re: '16 Centerdoor restore...
Hey do you guys know if the nuts on those brackets should be inside or like I have them?
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Topic author - Posts: 430
- Joined: Fri May 03, 2019 8:20 am
- First Name: fore
- Last Name: door
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1922 centerdoor 1927 fordor 1916 centerdoor
- Location: Nowhere Michigan
Re: '16 Centerdoor restore...
So things are lining up much better than I expected. What's with that?
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- Posts: 3678
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 3:13 pm
- First Name: Wayne
- Last Name: Sheldon
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1915 Runabout 1913 Speedster
- Location: Grass Valley California, USA
- Board Member Since: 2005
Re: '16 Centerdoor restore...
I am not a hundred percent sure? But I had some rotted remains of a firewall with a bracket and what I "thought" was original bolts still in place. I can't be certain, but it appeared to have been carriage type bolt from passenger side of the firewall out through the holes in the bracket with the nuts under the flair of the hood former. The nuts that came on it were what we call "heavy" hex nuts. I think they needed a 9/16 wrench?
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Topic author - Posts: 430
- Joined: Fri May 03, 2019 8:20 am
- First Name: fore
- Last Name: door
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1922 centerdoor 1927 fordor 1916 centerdoor
- Location: Nowhere Michigan
Re: '16 Centerdoor restore...
Wayne I stuck 1/4" dome heads in there, do you think they should be heavier? Be safe my friend...