MTFCA Forum

Finally got the seat cushion springs covered with the Classtique upholstery. i think it would have been easier with a second pair of hands. As it was it was a little like changing bands.

I found that I had to loosen the 2x4s and reposition the cushion a few times in order to get the crimping tool in where I needed it. Also used a thinner wider board under one of the 2x4s to extend the pressure without the added height to interfere with the crimping tool.

In the end it came out nicely and the next step is the back and sides. Thanks to Mike at Classtique and others for helpful suggestions. Any preference for filling tack holes prior to the next step? Toothpicks and glue or plastic wood?

Nice!

Awesome job!

The front bottom front cushion on my 16 touring has had some mouse damage. The upholstery was done about 50 years ago and other than the bottom cushion is still in great condition. Does classique or other mfg offer just the cushion cover, or if not, does a roadster kit fit the front seat on the touring?

Looks Nice Mark!!!!

Hank

The old upholsterer in me would suggest Titebond III and toothpicks. If that was the original upholstery , it probably isn’t that bad, but it will keep weather out of tack holes that aren’t reused. Not sure they even make plastic wood still. I hope not.
I have a question on your third picture. Is that the finished underside of the seat, or before you put the padding and cover on?

Good job Mark. The first time is always the hardest. The 2nd time it’s almost a piece of cake. Videos and advice from others helps but hands on experience is ALWAYS the best teacher.

The next step is the back and sides of the seat. I’ll be reaching out for help on that too. The people at Classtique are really great, but their installation instructions and videos really need to be revamped. I teach workshops in complex techniques of making photosensitive materials for photography. In these workshops I demonstrate the processes and everyone receives a manual with step by step instructions that make the complex easy. Google George Eastman Museum process videos for samplers with me describing everything from daguerreotype to gelatin emulsions and color photography. I can see a need for detailed instructions and videos in the upholstery culture.

If there is anyone out there who can walk me through the installation steps of the new back spring and upholstery I would really appreciate an email at mosterman@eastman.org I’ll make a tintype of your car in trade.

So why after all of you post's did you use hog rings? I don't get it!

Mark-
I'm confused of what you did...

The sewn in cord at the bottom of the cushion should be crimped into the channel of the spring. The underside of the cushion should be visible through the springs from the underside. Late 1911 and through 1912 cars had the underside of the spring covered with cardboard and artificial leather. I believe for 1913 and on, they were open. Hog rings were never used.

Keith

Come on guy its obvious what he did, the canvas is hogringed to the top of the spring before you put the upholstery down around the spring, canvas holds the cotton from falling down into the spring then the spring is crimped to the upolstery

Thanks Doug,

Yes the canvas (what Mike called “canvas burlap” for some reason) is there to prevent the cotton batting from falling apart and through the springs. The canvas is more effective than burlap. That canvas and the hog rings come with the kit. The stretched and secured canvas is then covered with cotton batting and then the upholstery is placed on top. The whole assembly is turned over and the sides pulled up. The edges of the sides are folded over a cord and sewn.

Then the fun begins as you compress the springs with two 2x4s and work the sewn edge of the cover into the channel and lightly crimp. Once you get all the edges of the upholstery into the channel you tighten the sewn in cord on the edges and follow by serious crimping of the metal channel.

I assume this is the reason why Classtique suggests using hog ring affixed canvas as the barrier between the cotton and springs. This is my original seat and you can see where the burlap worked its way through the coils. The stretched canvas would prevent this from happening over time.

This first upholstery work looks great. I bet if feels pretty good getting this first piece done and done so well .... and single handed, no less.

Looking forward to your completed project photos and knowing that there's a big (and well deserved) smile on your face.

Mark, the new seat looks good in your unrestored car and it’s pushed me to possibly go that route with mine.

At the factory, the leatherette, batting and burlap were originally installed on the springs as one pre-assembled unit. Note that on the original upholstery, the split metal prongs of the buttons go through the cotton batting, burlap and round metal retainer/washer before they are bent over.

The above means only one operation and zero hog rings to install the upholstery on the spring frame vs three operations of individually installing the burlap, batting and then leatherette onto the spring frame.

Also, the burlap on the original upholstery only covers the top of the seat cushion frame. With the exception of perhaps some slight overhang along the top edge of the spring frame, the burlap does not cover the sides.

Mark-
Here is the underside of my 1919 touring car front seat cushion. The Springs are from Snyder's. The Upholstery was from Carter's Cut 'n' Cover, about 30 years ago.
As Erik points out, the entire cushion assembly is assembled like the original. The top covering, padding, and cotton is stitched and tacked together with the double prong upholstery buttons. The burlap on the bottom sits onto the top side of the spring. I agree the burlap is pretty coarse. When I did the upholstery of my 1911 I used a duck type of canvas instead of burlap. The undersides of those cushions is covered with hardboard and artificial leather, so no one will ever know...

Here is the edge with the corded bead on the bottom end of the cushion crimped in the channel:
Again, these are Springs that I got from Snyder's and I believe the bottom edge is aluminum.

I hope the hog rings don't wear through your fabric. I noticed the corners on your springs look pretty square. Mine have rather square front corners, and the back corners, illustrated above, are more rounded.

Your project is looking good.

: ^ )

Keith

I did the hog rings and canvas spring cover because that is how Mike at Classtique suggests installing their upholstery. The edges of the canvas are covered with cotton batting and then the cover assembly. So ... did the best I could with the most recommended supplier on this forum. Yes, it doesn’t show burlap when the seat is turned over, so I’ll fill my tank faster at the gas station to avoid people seeing that.

There is no real interpretation of the installation. The cut and cord sewn edges of the cover determine the fit. The only thing that is not very trim is the excess canvas on the inside that is just pushed into the spring area where in the originals the burlap was trimmed much closer to the edges of the spring top.

Is Ford the only company that used painted upholstery buttons?

That seat looks great! I find the new material goes good with the beautiful original paint on your Runabout.
Smooth wire on the canvas against the new material above. It’ll cut it to ribbons... No sharp ends I see, they’re inside.
Mark, may I save your pics? My 18 project weighs heavily. When I get out from under an intense, joyous and very satisfying monster OT project here, a real seat in my T would be quite useful until I can finish this very original 7-17 body........
Wrote a bunch of mechanical service bulletins in a past life, a details freakshow, I grin and froth at too much information...

Sorry Mark, please excuse.
Hey Joe, we both should shoot Mike at Classtique an email asking about a seat-only kit.
Our seat-only kits may vary of course. He just might be willing.

Just thinking aloud for myself after seeing this process: Perhaps some store-string and a large eyed leather needle could fasten the canvas to the top of the spring in a long loop around, satisfy folk (I get both sides and understand but we can’t quite run the new material with the canvas thru the sewing machine again, can we?) and then the folded canvas skirts on the bottom could be secured at the bottom by more string to keep the canvas in place and the new material away from ever getting into the springs?
I sure wish my 24 Runabout was ready to have some real upholstery back in him. Your old interior is simply perfect. It is the most-ut. Madman done.
Very interesting expose’ and much appreciated! Thank you!

Duey:

Mike from Classtique plans on being at the November 9 Cameron swap meet in Owatonna, MN. If you attend, you can talk to him. He's very flexible and will sell you anything and everything he carries in his inventory from material, components, partial kits, complete kits, etc.

Yesterday, my father and I were at his new shop in Lindstrom, MN and we bought some "Turf" top material and some other related items.

I’ve been working with Mike to establish a more effective set of instructions. Here is a sketch I made of how the original seat back upholstery was installed in my era T.

Thanks Erik, I figured as much, he knows he provides an important resource for folks and will help us... Oof! You guys have the Minnesota shows so bloody far south! I felt lucky to have driven BACK, all the way from Delavan some weeks ago on a very OT project! It is a four cylinder tho.
Erik, You and your dad are valuable resources for information and I always like your input!

Mark, these are exciting times! Even here in the present, some of us work to provide information to our fellow folks!
I'm very OT right now and work hard at it trying to give good info about 90 yr old OT's that's very difficult to find IF available...
You helping to try to provide good or better info for something, seemingly so simple.... No, it's not simple at all. Every scrap of MORE information is a good thing.
I like your efforts to further ease the install of any Classtique kit!
Back to the Cozy Little Shop for more OT fun. later.