Pitman arm fit

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Art Ebeling
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Pitman arm fit

Post by Art Ebeling » Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:33 pm

I put my steering in the 11 today but it doesn’t seem to have enough sticking out the bottom of the steering bracket for the pitman arm to tighten up on. The top of the shaft in as far as it will go. What is wrong here? Art
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Scott_Conger
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Re: Pitman arm fit

Post by Scott_Conger » Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:36 pm

Art

are you sure you've got the right firewall brackets and the firewall is in the correct position?
Scott Conger

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Art Ebeling
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Re: Pitman arm fit

Post by Art Ebeling » Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:46 pm

I don’t see how anything could be different. Art
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Scott_Conger
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Re: Pitman arm fit

Post by Scott_Conger » Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:58 pm

OK

next step is to ensure you are dealing with the correct steering bracket at the end of the assembly.

This is taken from Royce Peterson's site, https://modeltfordfix.com/repairing-the ... -bushings/
model-t-ford-steering-brackets.jpg
Go to his excellent article and verify you have what you need, then you will be sure that you need to look elswhere...

And I am of course assuming that neither you nor anyone else tried to fit a later steering shaft in this thing that has one long pin on the backside, looking for a corresponding groove in the gear case...
Last edited by Scott_Conger on Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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George House
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Re: Pitman arm fit

Post by George House » Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:01 pm

I’m more concerned about you having the correct frame-to-steering column bracket. Ford made a half dozen different ones for Ts. What part number is on that bracket?
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John kuehn
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Re: Pitman arm fit

Post by John kuehn » Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:05 pm

Was the steering column a complete unit when you got the or are you assembling it from what’s supposed to be correct parts.

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rondupree
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Re: Pitman arm fit

Post by rondupree » Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:11 pm

Did you change the steering gearbox? I fought this same problem on a 1927 touring car with a steering tube and gearbox that came from two different steering columns. My final solution was to trim off the end of the tube to get the steering shaft to fit the way I wanted it to.


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Art Ebeling
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Re: Pitman arm fit

Post by Art Ebeling » Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:56 pm

The bracket is a T932B which should be correct according to Royce's article. The steering column and shaft were one unit when I got the car. Art
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Re: Pitman arm fit

Post by Scott_Conger » Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:57 pm

Quick note: when you get this all sorted out, the felt gasket belongs inside the bracket (before the steering shaft is inserted)
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Henry K. Lee
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Re: Pitman arm fit

Post by Henry K. Lee » Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:19 pm

Art,

I believe John is on to the problem. Those early columns were a tad shorter from my understanding.

All the Best,

Hank


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Re: Pitman arm fit

Post by Allan » Sat Nov 09, 2019 12:21 am

Art, sometimes after a hundred years and lots of re-working, things just don't match up. Check all we can throw up for you, and if the answer is not found, there is no reason why you can't shave a little off the bottom of the bracket to get the fit you need. I know in the ideal world it will work, but sometimes in the real world we have to compromise. Nobody will ever know.

Allan from down under.


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Re: Pitman arm fit

Post by Cordes_jeff » Sat Nov 09, 2019 8:19 am

You may have a 1911 town car column with a 1910 touring car shaft. Town car column was 51" and touring car column was 50".


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Re: Pitman arm fit

Post by Norman Kling » Sat Nov 09, 2019 8:26 am

Don't shave the bracket! From the looks of things, the spark and throttle rods are long enough. You would need to shave too much off the bracket to make things fit. Do you know whether these parts came off the same car before it was disassembled? I would suspect the shaft is too short because everything else seems to fit correctly. Only other thing I could suspect would be the position of the firewall on the chassis.
Norm

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Re: Pitman arm fit

Post by Walter Higgins » Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:09 am

art ebeling wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 6:33 pm
I put my steering in the 11 today but it doesn’t seem to have enough sticking out the bottom of the steering bracket for the pitman arm to tighten up on. The top of the shaft in as far as it will go. What is wrong here? Art
Attached are photos from an unmolested 56" 1912 column. The steering shaft should be the same length. Clipping your tape to the top of the steering case and going over the flange should be a valid datum point if you measure yours the same way that I did there. Obviously, you'll need to remove the unit from the car and take the bracket off the bottom.

The very top of the key slot is 53-7/16". The taper starts about 1/16" above that. How much difference is there between this one and yours?

For a second reference, with the gear case cover screwed on you will measure 56" from the flange that the steering wheel butts against to the very end of the threads on the shaft.
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Re: Pitman arm fit

Post by John kuehn » Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:10 am

To check it closer remove the complete column and see if the shaft will go out any further. If it does then you know it has something to do with the firewall positioning. If it doesn’t it may be the shaft is to short.


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Re: Pitman arm fit

Post by rgould1910 » Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:38 am

Compare the position of the spark and rod ends on yours and Walts set up. Your rods extend beyond the end of the main shaft much more than his. Unless your shaft is not seated in the gear case, your column and levers are not matched to the shaft.

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Re: Pitman arm fit

Post by Walter Higgins » Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:55 am

rgould1910 wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 9:38 am
Compare the position of the spark and rod ends on yours and Walts set up. Your rods extend beyond the end of the main shaft much more than his. Unless your shaft is not seated in the gear case, your column and levers are not matched to the shaft.
Very good eye!

Here is the column with a few parts thrown on the end for reference. The bracket is pushed back the right distance as measured off an assembled car.
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Re: Pitman arm fit

Post by Original Smith » Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:32 am

That is not a very good looking shaft. What is wrong with the one that came out of it?


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Art Ebeling
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Re: Pitman arm fit

Post by Art Ebeling » Tue Nov 19, 2019 4:46 pm

I think I have the wrong steering shaft and will look for another. At the same time I may get the repro brass throttle and spark rods but I’m just not yet comfortable with taking it all apart. I have read Royce’s article several times. Thanks, Art


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Re: Pitman arm fit

Post by Original Smith » Tue Nov 19, 2019 5:05 pm

I'd be careful of the repro spark and throttle rods. I also understand the are made of brass which is not a good idea. It is not difficult to take one of those steering columns apart. Just do it carefully and don't panic. You will notice the spark and throttle rods were put in before the gear case was riveted on. You must cut, or better yet chisel a slot to remove them, and carefully pry the two halves apart being careful not to break them off. This is the way the later steering columns were done. Also mike the diameter of the heads of the rivets BEFORE you remove them, as the new rivets have a different size head. Usually the rivets won't go straight in, so you must slightly bend them to get them in. Send them to a good brass plater, and only let them go down about 10 inches. Machine the new rivets to the same diameter as the ones you removed. Many restorers haven't done this, and they don't look very good.

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Re: Pitman arm fit

Post by Walter Higgins » Tue Nov 19, 2019 5:11 pm

Original Smith wrote:
Tue Nov 19, 2019 5:05 pm
You will notice the spark and throttle rods were put in before the gear case was riveted on. You must cut, or better yet chisel a slot to remove them, and carefully pry the two halves apart being careful not to break them off.
That's a shortcut way of doing it but nothing says that you must do it that way. Reverse order of assembly -- unrivet the gear case and then remove the rods . Reinstall the rods and then re-rivet the case, just as Ford did, and then you won't have to risk destroying an otherwise good part by chiseling on it (if somebody hasn't chiseled on it already).

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