My new repro u-joint is poorly riveted. Is it salvageable?

Discuss all things Model T related.
Forum rules
If you need help logging in, or have question about how something works, use the Support forum located here Support Forum
Complete set of Forum Rules Forum Rules
User avatar

Topic author
Mark Nunn
Posts: 1105
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:01 am
First Name: Mark
Last Name: Nunn
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926 Runabout
Location: Bennington, NE
MTFCA Number: 50321
Board Member Since: 2017

My new repro u-joint is poorly riveted. Is it salvageable?

Post by Mark Nunn » Sun Nov 24, 2019 9:34 am

I looked at my new Taiwan-made u-joint and the rivets are barely peened over. I'm afraid to use it as-is. The heads on 3 rivets are not seated completely. I can insert a feeler gauge of .011" under some. Is this what is being made these days? I will probably send it back unless I can find a way to set the rivets correctly. I know that tightening rivets in an old u-joint is ill advised. Have any of you seen this or used one of these?
image.jpeg
This "head" doesn't look big enough to me.
image.jpeg

User avatar

CudaMan
Posts: 2385
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 4:17 pm
First Name: Mark
Last Name: Strange
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1924 Cut Off Touring (now a pickup)
Location: Hillsboro, MO
MTFCA Number: 30944
MTFCI Number: 23667
Board Member Since: 2013

Re: My new repro u-joint is poorly riveted. Is it salvageable?

Post by CudaMan » Sun Nov 24, 2019 11:00 am

Since the joint hasn't been used, the holes for the rivets haven't been wallowed out, so my opinion is that you can re-peen the rivets and things will be fine.

The shanks of the rivets need to tightly fill their holes. This usually happens during peening. Once a riveted assembly has been used and loosened up, re-peening rivets is usually just a temporary fix. :)
Mark Strange
Hillsboro, MO
1924 Cut-off Touring (now a pickup)

User avatar

Walter Higgins
Posts: 273
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:18 pm
First Name: Walter
Last Name: Higgins
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1911 Open Runabout
Location: Realville, PA
MTFCA Number: 396
MTFCA Life Member: YES
MTFCI Number: 153

Re: My new repro u-joint is poorly riveted. Is it salvageable?

Post by Walter Higgins » Sun Nov 24, 2019 11:24 am

I'd say take them out and redo it. How do you know they didn't drill the hole with a metric bit and then use a fractional rivet or whatnot? Also, if they didn't debur the two parts where they go together and something is holding them apart? Start fresh and then you can control the process without having to wonder about what you can't currently see.

User avatar

DanTreace
Posts: 3299
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:56 am
First Name: Dan
Last Name: Treace
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '23 cutoff, '25 touring, '27 touring
Location: North Central FL
MTFCA Number: 4838
MTFCI Number: 115
Board Member Since: 2000
Contact:

Re: My new repro u-joint is poorly riveted. Is it salvageable?

Post by DanTreace » Sun Nov 24, 2019 4:53 pm

Are you certain the rivets are loose? If so, return the that u-joint.

Have a repro, and can only slip a feeler just under the folded over flare of what is compressed outward as the rivet is set. The body of the rivet gets compressed in the holes of the yokes. Can't fit the feeler all the way to the core of the rivet on the face of the yoke, only a tad of the way under the flare or fold over excess of the rivet that happens when setting rivets and the formed head will vary.

SYrPZRhERIaTibo8mgIvJw.jpg
The best way is always the simplest. The attics of the world are cluttered up with complicated failures. Henry Ford
Don’t find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain. Henry Ford


Allan
Posts: 5201
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:21 pm
First Name: Allan
Last Name: Bennett
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1912 van, 1917 shooting brake, 1929 roadster buckboard, 1924 tourer, 1925 barn find buckboard, 1925 D &F wide body roadster, 1927LHD Tudor sedan.
Location: Gawler, Australia

Re: My new repro u-joint is poorly riveted. Is it salvageable?

Post by Allan » Sun Nov 24, 2019 5:17 pm

If you don't send it back, how can the vendor ever know that it was not a serviceable part? They need to know so that the suppliers can rectify the problem. It is not the end user's responsibility to ensure the product is fit for use by re-working it.

That said, if you are unsure of it's status, asking for re-assurance is sensible. Just resist the temptaion to make corrections to bring it up to standard.

Allan from down under.


Scott C.
Posts: 805
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:44 am
First Name: Scott
Last Name: Clements
Location: Waynetown Indiana
MTFCA Number: 49592

Re: My new repro u-joint is poorly riveted. Is it salvageable?

Post by Scott C. » Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:06 pm

I have one exactly like the one that Mark has. I don't think anything is loose. I think they are from a different supplier then the one Dan has. Dan's looks to be of better quality. What size feeler gage are you using?
IMG_0511.jpg
IMG_0513.jpg

User avatar

TRDxB2
Posts: 5409
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:56 pm
First Name: Frank
Last Name: Brandi
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: Speedster (1919 w 1926)
Location: Moline IL
Board Member Since: 2018

Re: My new repro u-joint is poorly riveted. Is it salvageable?

Post by TRDxB2 » Sun Nov 24, 2019 11:11 pm

I'm with Mark on this. Look at the rivet shoulders. The red circled ones don't look peened.
Attachments
image.jpeg
The past is a great place and I don't want to erase it or to regret it, but I don't want to be its prisoner either.
Mick Jagger

User avatar

DanTreace
Posts: 3299
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:56 am
First Name: Dan
Last Name: Treace
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '23 cutoff, '25 touring, '27 touring
Location: North Central FL
MTFCA Number: 4838
MTFCI Number: 115
Board Member Since: 2000
Contact:

Re: My new repro u-joint is poorly riveted. Is it salvageable?

Post by DanTreace » Mon Nov 25, 2019 8:50 am

Scott

The feeler in my photo is just .005”, only just under the raised tiny edge of the excess squish of rivet material from the head that was formed. The rivet is solid straight, heads are formed in the stamping process, every head will be slightly different due to what buck form used. Certainly these are made in a gang rivet press, not just hand smacked with a hammer.

Seems good to use any of these unless you can vise hold one yoke and try to wiggle the other yoke, bet you can’t :D
The best way is always the simplest. The attics of the world are cluttered up with complicated failures. Henry Ford
Don’t find fault, find a remedy; anybody can complain. Henry Ford


Scott C.
Posts: 805
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:44 am
First Name: Scott
Last Name: Clements
Location: Waynetown Indiana
MTFCA Number: 49592

Re: My new repro u-joint is poorly riveted. Is it salvageable?

Post by Scott C. » Mon Nov 25, 2019 11:16 am

I did deburr the rough edges at the bottom of the cups with a Dremel. That did increase the distance of travel, as it was making contact there. I will take your suggestion. Prior to installation, I willl work it in a vice and put some torque to it. I also doubt that it will loosen up.

User avatar

Topic author
Mark Nunn
Posts: 1105
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:01 am
First Name: Mark
Last Name: Nunn
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926 Runabout
Location: Bennington, NE
MTFCA Number: 50321
Board Member Since: 2017

Re: My new repro u-joint is poorly riveted. Is it salvageable?

Post by Mark Nunn » Mon Nov 25, 2019 12:49 pm

My rivets aren't loose but there isn't much of a head on one side. I put the U-joint in a vice and there was no movement between halves. If I use this part I will definitely peen the rivets. I just have not decided if I will use it or send it back. It appears that mine is not unique with the questionable rivet setting.

User avatar

Topic author
Mark Nunn
Posts: 1105
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:01 am
First Name: Mark
Last Name: Nunn
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926 Runabout
Location: Bennington, NE
MTFCA Number: 50321
Board Member Since: 2017

Re: My new repro u-joint is poorly riveted. Is it salvageable?

Post by Mark Nunn » Mon Nov 25, 2019 2:40 pm

Allan, I did send a picture and note to the vendor about this concern.


Scott C.
Posts: 805
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:44 am
First Name: Scott
Last Name: Clements
Location: Waynetown Indiana
MTFCA Number: 49592

Re: My new repro u-joint is poorly riveted. Is it salvageable?

Post by Scott C. » Tue Nov 26, 2019 1:42 am

I mounted it in a vice and used a 3/4" drive ratchet to apply torque to it. I applied enough torque to feel it twist a little, but it springs right back. I do not see any signs of looseness.

Post Reply Previous topicNext topic