Low head, no Ford on it

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Joe Bell
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Low head, no Ford on it

Post by Joe Bell » Tue Dec 17, 2019 10:07 pm

Have what looks like an early low head with no Made in USA or Ford on it, has the big casting chablets in it, was wondering if it is an early Canadian head? Any help would be great, sorry guys I am not a computer gurue for Pictures, have to ask my wife to do that!

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VowellArt
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Re: Low head, no Ford on it

Post by VowellArt » Wed Dec 18, 2019 12:46 am

As I understood it the first 2500 cars didn't have any markings on the head whatsoever...they were low heads, and the casting was smooth, nothing on them. Saw one once at the Barkersfield swap meet.

220-engine-1909-Model-T-Ford-pre-2500.jpg
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A Whiteman
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Re: Low head, no Ford on it

Post by A Whiteman » Wed Dec 18, 2019 1:22 am

This is the head off a car with an engine number less than 700:
DSC_0059.jpg


Wayne Sheldon
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Re: Low head, no Ford on it

Post by Wayne Sheldon » Wed Dec 18, 2019 2:11 am

I suspect Joe B is talking about a regular looking low head with no name or "made in USA", not the early early water-pump-T head. I am fairly sure the later '09s and '10s fit that description. I don't recall just when the Ford script and "Made in USA" were added. I seem to recall one was added, then the other, both by early 1912. I also seem to recall that the castings were a bit rough and had remnants of the vent risers on one side.

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Re: Low head, no Ford on it

Post by Hap_Tucker » Wed Dec 18, 2019 7:31 am

Joe,

For Canadian production they used the USA engines up until around May 1913 - so those would be the same as the USA engines -- i.e. Ford Script on the head.

The Model T Ford Club International 7th Edition Judging Guidelines indicate the 1913-1915 Canadian produced engines also had the Ford Script on the head along with a linear casting date (MM/DD/YY). But for the 1916 cars they indicate the Ford Script was removed but the linear casting date remained. That continued into 1918 with the low heads in Canada. The 1919 Canadian heads are NOT called out as low -- so I assume they are the regular high heads. They also did NOT have the Ford script and the casting date is now in a circle. That style continued for a while but I am stopping now to go to work.

FYI:

There is an e-bay listing at: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ford-Model-T-E ... fresh=true that has a non-Ford script head. And they say it is an early head. Technically they correct -- it is clearly from last century so it is early from that standpoint. But for USA production -- Ford began removing the Ford script around Aug 1926 and both styles were available through 1927 for USA production - ref: https://www.mtfca.com/encyclo/E.htm#eng3 that says: "Other records indicate that in August 1926 the " Made in USA" and "Ford" were being eliminated from the head castings."

And as mentioned above the Canadian high heads probably started around 1919 but had a casting date in a circle -- and the earlier Canadian heads also had a casting date but it was linear. I did NOT see a casting date on the e-bay head. So it might be one of those later 1926-27 USA produced heads or perhaps a Canadian head that did not have a casting date.

But in the case of the E-bay listing it appears to have the USA 1917-1927 high head or Canadian 1919'ish -1927 high head based on the combustion chamber design.

Below are two photos from that listing:
top.jpg
top.jpg
I'm still learning how to get the photos correct -- but the combustion chamber for the same head is shown below my signature block.
Respectfully submitted,

Hap l9l5 cut off
Attachments
s-l1600.jpg


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Joe Bell
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Re: Low head, no Ford on it

Post by Joe Bell » Wed Dec 18, 2019 9:37 am

This head is the early combustion chamber and low design, I have many heads in my collection but never seen one like this, The early pump engine has different water outlet, the 9-early 10 have the thumb nails on side and back, then they went to the script around the center head bolt. Thanks Joe


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Re: Low head, no Ford on it

Post by Drkbp » Wed Dec 18, 2019 11:34 am

Joe,

I believe I have one of the heads you describe. Just took the pictures below.
I ran it on my July 1913 Touring (U.S.) until I could get the correct head.
Low head, "thumbprint" combustion chamber with a "3 - 18" which should indicate March 18th ___(no year).
What appeared to be a similar/matching head discussed here years ago. I believe the consensus was - a late 1912/early 1913 Canadian Low Head and somewhat scarce.
Attachments
BLANK EXCEPT FOR "MONTH AND DAY"
BLANK EXCEPT FOR "MONTH AND DAY"
THUMB PRINT CHAMBER
THUMB PRINT CHAMBER
"MONTH AND DAY" CASTING
"MONTH AND DAY" CASTING


Topic author
Joe Bell
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Re: Low head, no Ford on it

Post by Joe Bell » Wed Dec 18, 2019 7:23 pm

Ken, It looks like a twin to yours except the day and month is different. Thanks, I was thinking Canadian, It had came off of a 26 Canadian engine and I replace it with a high Made in Canada head. Now I know!


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Joe Bell
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Re: Low head, no Ford on it

Post by Joe Bell » Thu Dec 19, 2019 7:08 am

Years ago I have had a couple blocks that where chiseled off Made In USA but the Ford was still there, was told the early Canada engines where casted in USA but finished in Canada so they removed the USA. Any thoughts on this rumor? Thanks also! Joe


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Re: Low head, no Ford on it

Post by Kerry » Thu Dec 19, 2019 3:19 pm

Joe.
True.


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Re: Low head, no Ford on it

Post by nsbrassnut » Thu Dec 19, 2019 8:00 pm

Hi All

Here are some pictures of the low head and block on my '15 Canadian roadster. The Canadian blocks had the "made in USA" ground off, not chiselled off.

To avoid and reduce duties, Canadian parts avoided any USA reference as much as possible. The Holley G carburetors are even marked Holley Bros. instead of Holly Detroit, but are otherwise the same.

Drive Safe

Jeff Lee
Nova Scotia
Attachments
15 CDN Ford block.jpg
15 CDN Ford head 2.jpg
15 CDN Ford head 1.jpg


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Joe Bell
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Re: Low head, no Ford on it

Post by Joe Bell » Sun Dec 22, 2019 9:16 am

Thanks Jeff for the pictures, had an ole friend that told me about removing the made in usa but never saw it in person, thanks again, Joe


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Re: Low head, no Ford on it

Post by autoneer » Sun Dec 22, 2019 5:06 pm

My Canadian 1913 touring was built in Dec 1912, and has Ford & Made in USA on both the block & head. It is very original with only 3200 miles on it, and I am the 3rd owner from new. It was sold in Montreal, so is LHD with no holes in the frame for RHD steering.
It appears to have been made in Detroit and shipped across the river. The only thing different from US production is the 4th door and extra bead around the outside edge of the fenders. Original Walkersville Ont serial number on the data plate matches the engine block, 181,000+ Body has F serial number so is Fischer? Some leftover 1912 bits on it too, like the Ford script trans cover and extra long TL bracket. Windshield is equal halves. Interesting car.

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