Early Body Bolts

Discuss all things Model T related.
Forum rules
If you need help logging in, or have question about how something works, use the Support forum located here Support Forum
Complete set of Forum Rules Forum Rules

Topic author
Original Smith
Posts: 3284
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:43 am
First Name: Larry
Last Name: Smith
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 13 Touring, 13 Roadster, 17 Coupelet, 25 Roadster P/U
Location: Lomita, California
MTFCA Number: 121
MTFCA Life Member: YES
MTFCI Number: 16310

Early Body Bolts

Post by Original Smith » Sat Dec 21, 2019 5:27 pm

I recently acquired a POS 1915 touring, which is partially disassembled. The good news is, it's a real '15, not a conversion. Anyway, three of the body bolts were missing, and the early ones are a non standard size, using an 11/16 across the head bolt. Yea, I know I could easily slip in a 5/8 non standard bolt, and no one would ever question it, but I'm not that kind of a T guy. So, here is how I solved the problem. I used flywheel bolts. They have the correct head, but I had to fill the safety wire hole on all of them. Next, the length had to be shortened, which I did on my lathe. All of them required a cotter pin hole, and the early bolts had a radius at the bottom which I also did. Now I can rest easier!

User avatar

VowellArt
Posts: 542
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:44 am
First Name: Martynn
Last Name: Vowell
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1922 Touring, th "Lady"
Location: Sylmar, Commiefornia
MTFCA Number: 9908
Board Member Since: 2012
Contact:

Re: Early Body Bolts

Post by VowellArt » Sat Dec 21, 2019 5:51 pm

Larry, could you post a picture of that bolt and all the parts that affixes it to the body mounting bracket?...my next project after the Chassis is the Body and Wood structures of all the car and truck years too. ;)
Fun never quits!

User avatar

TRDxB2
Posts: 5410
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:56 pm
First Name: Frank
Last Name: Brandi
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: Speedster (1919 w 1926)
Location: Moline IL
Board Member Since: 2018

Re: Early Body Bolts

Post by TRDxB2 » Sun Dec 22, 2019 2:09 am

Does anyone have a diagram of what bolts and/or brackets go where? Suppliers have part number to application but lack information on dimensions. If you have some info please post it to this thread. If a list isn't available I will make one. I have several sets of data but they all lack the bolt dimensions (diameter, length, treads, etc). Same is true for body o frame brackets etc This diagram shows were things go, tools used, and head size but no part#
NUTS & BOLTS s  mall.jpg
this is a list of parts hardware but lacks dimensions.
Attachments
Hardware Part Numbers.jpg
The past is a great place and I don't want to erase it or to regret it, but I don't want to be its prisoner either.
Mick Jagger

User avatar

KWTownsend
Posts: 1122
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 6:51 pm
First Name: Keith
Last Name: Townsend
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: late 1911 touring, 1915 runabout, 1919 touring, brass speedster
Location: Gresham, Orygun
MTFCA Number: 14778
MTFCA Life Member: YES
MTFCI Number: 16305
Board Member Since: 1999

Re: Early Body Bolts

Post by KWTownsend » Sun Dec 22, 2019 7:40 pm

I would sure like to find some correct 3088 engine pan bolts & nuts.

: ^ )

User avatar

TRDxB2
Posts: 5410
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:56 pm
First Name: Frank
Last Name: Brandi
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: Speedster (1919 w 1926)
Location: Moline IL
Board Member Since: 2018

Re: Early Body Bolts

Post by TRDxB2 » Mon Dec 23, 2019 12:34 am

If I had them I wouldn't know - how thick should the head be?
The past is a great place and I don't want to erase it or to regret it, but I don't want to be its prisoner either.
Mick Jagger

User avatar

KWTownsend
Posts: 1122
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 6:51 pm
First Name: Keith
Last Name: Townsend
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: late 1911 touring, 1915 runabout, 1919 touring, brass speedster
Location: Gresham, Orygun
MTFCA Number: 14778
MTFCA Life Member: YES
MTFCI Number: 16305
Board Member Since: 1999

Re: Early Body Bolts

Post by KWTownsend » Mon Dec 23, 2019 4:37 pm

Hank-
They are a 1/4-28 square head bolt, I think 1/2" across the flats. I don't know how thick the head should be.
Although they are drilled for a cotter pin, they use square nuts! The parts catalogs say they are 9/16" long, RV says they should be 25/32" long.
engine pan bolts 1912 catalog close.png
I believe this is a picture of Rich Eagle's craftsmanship, along with an original on the left. He said the original in the photo is 0.720" long, but he said that he would expect some variation.
engine pans bolts and nuts close.jpg
I have not seen a drawing for these bolts, but it only goes through the frame and a thin piece of sheet metal for the pan. A couple of them also hold the gas lamp clamps which might add a total of another 1/16" so I were to manufacture them, I'd be inclined to go with 9/16" long.

: ^ )

Keith

User avatar

Rich Eagle
Posts: 6796
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:51 am
First Name: Richard
Last Name: Eagle
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1909 TR 1914 TR 1915 Rd 1920 Spdstr 1922 Coupe 1925 Tudor
Location: Idaho Falls, ID
MTFCA Number: 1219
Contact:

Re: Early Body Bolts

Post by Rich Eagle » Mon Dec 23, 2019 9:02 pm

FWIW I just measured the head of nut and bolt and they are 3/8" across flats. The bolt head is .178 high and nut is .186 high. This is the rusty bolt and nut shown at lower left. They were taken from a 1913 frame with the tube clamps. No pans were present at that time but I am assuming those were the original bolt and nut. My '14 frame had the same although the bolt was a smidgen longer, .740.
When did I do that?

User avatar

Duey_C
Posts: 1518
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:28 pm
First Name: Duane
Last Name: Cooley
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 18 Runabout, 24 Runabout for 20yrs, 25 TT, late Center Door project, open express pickup
Location: central MN
MTFCA Number: 32488
Board Member Since: 2015

Re: Early Body Bolts

Post by Duey_C » Tue Dec 24, 2019 12:14 am

I second the request from Mart for a pic or two Larry. Would you? :)
This thread has also turned interesting for me as these thoughts can be used for some OT applications where the correct hardware size isn't available. :)
Seems as if I'm becoming a "rivet counter" of sorts on a different wavelength (OT)...
Ooh, a piece of 11/16" hex-shaft from work for 5/16" nuts and 9/16" square key stock for machine bolts.
This 1911 machine will do it, albeit slow.
1018-1045 sound about right for square head machine bolts?
Sorry for the intrusion.
Since I lost my mind mind, I feel more liberated


Topic author
Original Smith
Posts: 3284
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:43 am
First Name: Larry
Last Name: Smith
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 13 Touring, 13 Roadster, 17 Coupelet, 25 Roadster P/U
Location: Lomita, California
MTFCA Number: 121
MTFCA Life Member: YES
MTFCI Number: 16310

Re: Early Body Bolts

Post by Original Smith » Sat Dec 28, 2019 9:46 pm

I don't know if I can post any pictures of this bolt, as they are now on the car! There are three on each side. The front and rear are the same size . The center one is about 1/16" longer. The early 13's had a much longer rear body bolt to go through the cast iron frame bracket. I had to have one of those made recently, as I discarded the bad one 50+ years ago. Came out real nice, but a lot of work. None of these bolts are standard any longer.


Scott_Conger
Posts: 6431
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:18 am
First Name: Scott
Last Name: Conger
* REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: '13, '15, '19, '23
Location: Clark, WY
Board Member Since: 2005

Re: Early Body Bolts

Post by Scott_Conger » Sat Dec 28, 2019 10:36 pm

Keith

a very close match for pan bolts, which could be altered easily: http://www.blacksmithbolt.com/store/p/1 ... Oxide.aspx

and nuts: http://www.blacksmithbolt.com/store/p/1 ... Oxide.aspx
Scott Conger

Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny

NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured

Post Reply Previous topicNext topic