Model T engine with Model B Crank

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henryford2
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Model T engine with Model B Crank

Post by henryford2 » Fri Dec 27, 2019 10:03 am

Now that it's much easier to post pictures (although the number posted could be increased) I thought I'd share my next project. It's a T engine with a B crank built by Orville Enyeart in the 70's for Andy Mounce (who I bought it from). From Andy's stories I believe this is the engine that made it up Pikes Pike and class winner at the Newport Hill Climb in his 26/27 Touring. Enjoy
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Re: Model T engine with Model B Crank

Post by henryford2 » Fri Dec 27, 2019 10:05 am

More
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Re: Model T engine with Model B Crank

Post by henryford2 » Fri Dec 27, 2019 10:07 am

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Re: Model T engine with Model B Crank

Post by henryford2 » Fri Dec 27, 2019 10:08 am

The last ones, it uses connecting rods from a air compressor
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John E. Guitar
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Re: Model T engine with Model B Crank

Post by John E. Guitar » Fri Dec 27, 2019 10:18 am

Interesting engine.

I wonder if the conrods are off a Smith Motor Compressor?


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Re: Model T engine with Model B Crank

Post by Erik Barrett » Fri Dec 27, 2019 10:59 am

We just worked on an engine similar to this one. It took a whole bunch of work to stuff a model B crankshaft into a T. You have to turn both the rod and main journals down to model A size or it won’t fit. There have been some T’s built with model B rods but they are OHC jobs with no camshaft in the block. Orville was a genius, he made some incredible stuff.


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HISTORIC Model T engine with Model B Crank

Post by Dropacent » Fri Dec 27, 2019 12:05 pm

Cool project with the absolute right guy doing it. Please keep posting progress pics.

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Re: Model T engine with Model B Crank

Post by henryford2 » Fri Dec 27, 2019 9:32 pm

Thanks Tim, this will be my LAST build. Running out of time and space
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Re: Model T engine with Model B Crank

Post by Les Schubert » Fri Dec 27, 2019 9:42 pm

I’ll post some pictures of mine tomorrow. I did it all myself


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Shell hill climb... Model T engine with Model B Crank

Post by Dropacent » Fri Dec 27, 2019 11:13 pm

He probably did this one , too. You can have the plaque but it will cost you a sammich
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Re: Model T engine with Model B Crank

Post by henryford2 » Sat Dec 28, 2019 8:07 am

Les, please post. Tim, you're on. Thanks
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Re: Model T engine with Model B Crank

Post by Henry K. Lee » Sat Dec 28, 2019 8:13 am

Quite the under taking guy's, Thank You for posting!

Hank

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Re: Model T engine with Model B Crank

Post by Mark Gregush » Sat Dec 28, 2019 10:53 am

Was the block moved forward on the pan or the flywheel flange moved?
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Re: Model T engine with Model B Crank

Post by Les Schubert » Sat Dec 28, 2019 11:27 am

Here are some pictures of what I have done
1. Stretch of pan
2.relocation of front mount
3. Oil pump mount and block “stretcher”
4 SPEEDI SLEEVE for key cover
5 sleeve installed
Attachments
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Re: Model T engine with Model B Crank

Post by Les Schubert » Sat Dec 28, 2019 11:44 am

Some crank details
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Re: Model T engine with Model B Crank

Post by Les Schubert » Sat Dec 28, 2019 11:46 am

Intake manifold details
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Re: Model T engine with Model B Crank

Post by Les Schubert » Sat Dec 28, 2019 11:49 am

Shortened A crank (different engine)
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Re: Model T engine with Model B Crank

Post by henryford2 » Sat Dec 28, 2019 7:28 pm

Thanks Les, some more pictures. The block is moved forward on the pan. The spacer on the end of the crankshaft I believe is when he ran this engine with the aluminum crankcase and C-4 transmission.
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Re: Model T engine with Model B Crank

Post by henryford2 » Sat Dec 28, 2019 7:34 pm

Here's some more pictures. This will get the "straight pan" fanatics squirming. Again the engine was mounted to an aluminum crankcase running an automatic transmission with a Model B crank shaft, so I'm guessing they weren't too concerned with pan misalignment. It appears that the arm may have been a single piece with the rubber bonded to the now two loose pieces of the bracket. Not sure where I'm going with this yet. Summer of 2020 project. Enjoy.
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Re: Model T engine with Model B Crank

Post by Tbz4u » Mon Dec 30, 2019 10:43 pm

I've heard that the welding that orville did was crud now i know coarse he said all the welder in the 70s were crud welders


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Re: Model T engine with Model B Crank

Post by Les Schubert » Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:52 pm

Welding the flange on in the process of shortening the crank is VERY difficult!!
The 2 viable methods “in my opinion”;
1. Move the block forward, which is what is shown in Orville’s engine
2. A taper/press fit THICK flange that I’ve shown a couple of pictures of. The rear main bearing is shortened 3/4”. This method has been successful.
3. I tried the weld approach with the work done using very advanced technology. Ultimately after about 5,000 miles the weld failed. No particular harm from the failure. I have fixed other conversions done by less skilled welding and they only survived a few hundred miles

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Re: Model T engine with Model B Crank

Post by Mark Gregush » Tue Dec 31, 2019 1:17 am

RE;"The last ones, it uses connecting rods from a air compressor "
What compressor? Do they shorten the length so stock T pistons can be used. Is that why the notch is in the skirt in the one photo?
Joe, I found and earlier post that you indicated not knowing what rods were used in this engine, hopefully someone out there knows.
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/17 ... 1319706826
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Re: Model T engine with Model B Crank

Post by henryford2 » Tue Dec 31, 2019 12:56 pm

I haven't pulled the motor down, but from what I've seen, the compressor rod is the same length as the Model T with the exception that the big end is the same diameter as the Model A. This allows a "standard" Model T high compression piston to be used rather than the style where the wrist pin is moved up on the piston to accommodate the longer Model A rod . The notches in the pistons clear the counterweights on the crank. Hope this answerers your questions
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Re: Model T engine with Model B Crank

Post by walber » Tue Dec 31, 2019 1:12 pm

Sure would be nice to know what those rods are and thus where to find them.


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Re: Model T engine with Model B Crank

Post by Les Schubert » Tue Dec 31, 2019 1:21 pm

I know a guy who welded A and T rods together for a similar application. I never saw the rods but his workmanship is really high quality. I know these don’t look welded but you never know. Some guys have phenomenal attention to finish details

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Re: Model T engine with Model B Crank

Post by henryford2 » Tue Dec 31, 2019 1:33 pm

I'm guessing that with the passing of Humble Howard trying to identifying what engine the rods came out of will be real difficult.
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Re: Model T engine with Model B Crank

Post by Kevin Pharis » Tue Dec 31, 2019 6:15 pm

The rods pictured above are compressor rods for sure... can’t confirm the “Smiths Motor” part, as I’ve only ever heard them referred to as “compressor” before.

Most cut and welded “hybrid” rods I have seen, have had reinforcement plates add to stiffen the weld area.

I don’t have any pics to prove it... but I’ve shortened A rods, and also made hybrid T/A rods, by milling the webs out of the rods, cutting to desired length, and then boxed with sheet steel to create rectanglular section tubular rods. And after doing a few sets like this... I swore I would never go thru the effort again!! So happy to see that SCAT has an H beam option, as I had figured on machining my own design for the next motor


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Re: Model T engine with Model B Crank

Post by Les Schubert » Tue Dec 31, 2019 6:24 pm

I have a set of the cast aluminum rods offered for the installation of the A crank in a T block. Anyone with experience with these?


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Re: Model T engine with Model B Crank

Post by Kevin Pharis » Tue Dec 31, 2019 6:41 pm

Les Schubert wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 6:24 pm
I have a set of the cast aluminum rods offered for the installation of the A crank in a T block. Anyone with experience with these?
Original accessory rods? I’ve seen the “Aluminite” rods from way back when, but all have been T replacement. And usually in sets of three...?! :?

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Re: Model T engine with Model B Crank

Post by AndyClary » Tue Dec 31, 2019 8:04 pm

I have a b crank in my speedster motor. It uses A rods. It also had rubber mounts and may have been done by the same guy. It was in a 26 coupe that I bought in 03-04. It was from Texas but has an AACA San Louis Obisbio dash plaque from 1961.

Andy


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Re: Model T engine with Model B Crank

Post by Les Schubert » Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:33 pm

Kevin
These rods were made back in the 80’s, 90’s. The same guy cast caps for A conversions out of bronze. I got the rods from a estate sale.
Alumite rods. I have a original set of 6 for a 330 cuin 125 hp Scripps marine engine

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