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Model T engine with Model B Crank

Posted: Fri Dec 27, 2019 10:03 am
by henryford2
Now that it's much easier to post pictures (although the number posted could be increased) I thought I'd share my next project. It's a T engine with a B crank built by Orville Enyeart in the 70's for Andy Mounce (who I bought it from). From Andy's stories I believe this is the engine that made it up Pikes Pike and class winner at the Newport Hill Climb in his 26/27 Touring. Enjoy
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Re: Model T engine with Model B Crank

Posted: Fri Dec 27, 2019 10:05 am
by henryford2
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Re: Model T engine with Model B Crank

Posted: Fri Dec 27, 2019 10:07 am
by henryford2
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Re: Model T engine with Model B Crank

Posted: Fri Dec 27, 2019 10:08 am
by henryford2
The last ones, it uses connecting rods from a air compressor
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Re: Model T engine with Model B Crank

Posted: Fri Dec 27, 2019 10:18 am
by John E. Guitar
Interesting engine.

I wonder if the conrods are off a Smith Motor Compressor?

Re: Model T engine with Model B Crank

Posted: Fri Dec 27, 2019 10:59 am
by Erik Barrett
We just worked on an engine similar to this one. It took a whole bunch of work to stuff a model B crankshaft into a T. You have to turn both the rod and main journals down to model A size or it won’t fit. There have been some T’s built with model B rods but they are OHC jobs with no camshaft in the block. Orville was a genius, he made some incredible stuff.

HISTORIC Model T engine with Model B Crank

Posted: Fri Dec 27, 2019 12:05 pm
by Dropacent
Cool project with the absolute right guy doing it. Please keep posting progress pics.

Re: Model T engine with Model B Crank

Posted: Fri Dec 27, 2019 9:32 pm
by henryford2
Thanks Tim, this will be my LAST build. Running out of time and space

Re: Model T engine with Model B Crank

Posted: Fri Dec 27, 2019 9:42 pm
by Les Schubert
I’ll post some pictures of mine tomorrow. I did it all myself

Shell hill climb... Model T engine with Model B Crank

Posted: Fri Dec 27, 2019 11:13 pm
by Dropacent
He probably did this one , too. You can have the plaque but it will cost you a sammich
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Re: Model T engine with Model B Crank

Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 8:07 am
by henryford2
Les, please post. Tim, you're on. Thanks

Re: Model T engine with Model B Crank

Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 8:13 am
by Henry K. Lee
Quite the under taking guy's, Thank You for posting!

Hank

Re: Model T engine with Model B Crank

Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 10:53 am
by Mark Gregush
Was the block moved forward on the pan or the flywheel flange moved?

Re: Model T engine with Model B Crank

Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 11:27 am
by Les Schubert
Here are some pictures of what I have done
1. Stretch of pan
2.relocation of front mount
3. Oil pump mount and block “stretcher”
4 SPEEDI SLEEVE for key cover
5 sleeve installed

Re: Model T engine with Model B Crank

Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 11:44 am
by Les Schubert
Some crank details

Re: Model T engine with Model B Crank

Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 11:46 am
by Les Schubert
Intake manifold details

Re: Model T engine with Model B Crank

Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 11:49 am
by Les Schubert
Shortened A crank (different engine)

Re: Model T engine with Model B Crank

Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 7:28 pm
by henryford2
Thanks Les, some more pictures. The block is moved forward on the pan. The spacer on the end of the crankshaft I believe is when he ran this engine with the aluminum crankcase and C-4 transmission.
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Re: Model T engine with Model B Crank

Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 7:34 pm
by henryford2
Here's some more pictures. This will get the "straight pan" fanatics squirming. Again the engine was mounted to an aluminum crankcase running an automatic transmission with a Model B crank shaft, so I'm guessing they weren't too concerned with pan misalignment. It appears that the arm may have been a single piece with the rubber bonded to the now two loose pieces of the bracket. Not sure where I'm going with this yet. Summer of 2020 project. Enjoy.
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Re: Model T engine with Model B Crank

Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 10:43 pm
by Tbz4u
I've heard that the welding that orville did was crud now i know coarse he said all the welder in the 70s were crud welders

Re: Model T engine with Model B Crank

Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:52 pm
by Les Schubert
Welding the flange on in the process of shortening the crank is VERY difficult!!
The 2 viable methods “in my opinion”;
1. Move the block forward, which is what is shown in Orville’s engine
2. A taper/press fit THICK flange that I’ve shown a couple of pictures of. The rear main bearing is shortened 3/4”. This method has been successful.
3. I tried the weld approach with the work done using very advanced technology. Ultimately after about 5,000 miles the weld failed. No particular harm from the failure. I have fixed other conversions done by less skilled welding and they only survived a few hundred miles

Re: Model T engine with Model B Crank

Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 1:17 am
by Mark Gregush
RE;"The last ones, it uses connecting rods from a air compressor "
What compressor? Do they shorten the length so stock T pistons can be used. Is that why the notch is in the skirt in the one photo?
Joe, I found and earlier post that you indicated not knowing what rods were used in this engine, hopefully someone out there knows.
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/17 ... 1319706826

Re: Model T engine with Model B Crank

Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 12:56 pm
by henryford2
I haven't pulled the motor down, but from what I've seen, the compressor rod is the same length as the Model T with the exception that the big end is the same diameter as the Model A. This allows a "standard" Model T high compression piston to be used rather than the style where the wrist pin is moved up on the piston to accommodate the longer Model A rod . The notches in the pistons clear the counterweights on the crank. Hope this answerers your questions

Re: Model T engine with Model B Crank

Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 1:12 pm
by walber
Sure would be nice to know what those rods are and thus where to find them.

Re: Model T engine with Model B Crank

Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 1:21 pm
by Les Schubert
I know a guy who welded A and T rods together for a similar application. I never saw the rods but his workmanship is really high quality. I know these don’t look welded but you never know. Some guys have phenomenal attention to finish details

Re: Model T engine with Model B Crank

Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 1:33 pm
by henryford2
I'm guessing that with the passing of Humble Howard trying to identifying what engine the rods came out of will be real difficult.

Re: Model T engine with Model B Crank

Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 6:15 pm
by Kevin Pharis
The rods pictured above are compressor rods for sure... can’t confirm the “Smiths Motor” part, as I’ve only ever heard them referred to as “compressor” before.

Most cut and welded “hybrid” rods I have seen, have had reinforcement plates add to stiffen the weld area.

I don’t have any pics to prove it... but I’ve shortened A rods, and also made hybrid T/A rods, by milling the webs out of the rods, cutting to desired length, and then boxed with sheet steel to create rectanglular section tubular rods. And after doing a few sets like this... I swore I would never go thru the effort again!! So happy to see that SCAT has an H beam option, as I had figured on machining my own design for the next motor

Re: Model T engine with Model B Crank

Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 6:24 pm
by Les Schubert
I have a set of the cast aluminum rods offered for the installation of the A crank in a T block. Anyone with experience with these?

Re: Model T engine with Model B Crank

Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 6:41 pm
by Kevin Pharis
Les Schubert wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 6:24 pm
I have a set of the cast aluminum rods offered for the installation of the A crank in a T block. Anyone with experience with these?
Original accessory rods? I’ve seen the “Aluminite” rods from way back when, but all have been T replacement. And usually in sets of three...?! :?

Re: Model T engine with Model B Crank

Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 8:04 pm
by AndyClary
I have a b crank in my speedster motor. It uses A rods. It also had rubber mounts and may have been done by the same guy. It was in a 26 coupe that I bought in 03-04. It was from Texas but has an AACA San Louis Obisbio dash plaque from 1961.

Andy

Re: Model T engine with Model B Crank

Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:33 pm
by Les Schubert
Kevin
These rods were made back in the 80’s, 90’s. The same guy cast caps for A conversions out of bronze. I got the rods from a estate sale.
Alumite rods. I have a original set of 6 for a 330 cuin 125 hp Scripps marine engine