Getting Rattles Back On The Road
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
I too am enjoying the thread and am looking forward to videos of the 2 of you driving.
Still crankin old iron
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Thanks Hank. She has a big Trig math test tomorrow so i had to go solo tonight. She'll be out there soon.
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Angie must be approaching the age to get her drivers license. Have you considered the day she takes off solo for the first time ? Will the tail lights disappearing in the distance be the Model T or one of your high power Mopars ?
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Ha! That would be good. She's defiantly going to drive the T. She is already very good at working the steering and brake pedal on the Mopars as I push them around the garage.
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
So tonight I took apart the steering gear case. For some reason I could only turn the case cap about 1 inch in each direction. Well I put a strap wrench on it and got the cover off. This is why it's important to check everything on your T. In this case I found the following:
take a look at the inside cover: This is what was binding. The pin was sticking up. I think I'll be getting a new set of "5 to 1" gears. These look worn out. They all had a 5 on them. I need to check the shaft as well for the "5".
take a look at the inside cover: This is what was binding. The pin was sticking up. I think I'll be getting a new set of "5 to 1" gears. These look worn out. They all had a 5 on them. I need to check the shaft as well for the "5".
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Well I was able to order everything I need today and I figured out the my pin problem. I drove out the pins and put them back at the correct hight. One of them had a burr on it and the gear would not spin freely. I turned the pin around and hammered it back in place. Now they are all the correct hight and are tight on the shaft.
I could also see where one of the pins had fallen into the case and made a mark in the brass. I cleaned up the shaft and have it ready to go back together.
I could also see where one of the pins had fallen into the case and made a mark in the brass. I cleaned up the shaft and have it ready to go back together.
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
So I'm open to suggestions on what to do with the pins of the Steering Shaft. I've read several threads about the subject and I'm thinking that my options are:
1. Get new pins and take it to a machine shop.
2. Get a new shaft from the vendors.
3. Get a good used shaft.
Any other suggestions?
Here is a video showing the problem.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9xBTFNLMk4
I'm thinking that this pin gets the most abuse because it bangs against the "Lock to Lock" grove and over time this makes the hole bigger.
1. Get new pins and take it to a machine shop.
2. Get a new shaft from the vendors.
3. Get a good used shaft.
Any other suggestions?
Here is a video showing the problem.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9xBTFNLMk4
I'm thinking that this pin gets the most abuse because it bangs against the "Lock to Lock" grove and over time this makes the hole bigger.
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Robert, You could use a high strength loctite on that pin and it would work fine. Locktite is some great stuff and where you have it clean, it would work no problem. Red or Green are usually the high strength ones.
24-28 TA race car, 26 Canadian touring, 25 Roadster pickup, 14 Roadster, and 11AB Maxwell runabout
Keep it simple and keep a good junk pile if you want to invent something
Keep it simple and keep a good junk pile if you want to invent something
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
I'm going to try the lock tight. My concern is that the pin slides away from the grove in the case. I'm thinking that the pin would hit the top cover before it slips out of the grove.
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
So I got the Center pinion gear to fit the cover of the steering box by putting it in the drill press and some sand paper.
I while back ago I also got the oil pan on. The other strange thing is..... I bought an Oil Pan and Hog's Head bolt set from Lang's because a lot of the bolts that came on the car were wrong. I seem to have more of the small bolts that screw in than I need. I'll have to see what I have left over. Could be because there are several blot patterns for different years.
I while back ago I also got the oil pan on. The other strange thing is..... I bought an Oil Pan and Hog's Head bolt set from Lang's because a lot of the bolts that came on the car were wrong. I seem to have more of the small bolts that screw in than I need. I'll have to see what I have left over. Could be because there are several blot patterns for different years.
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
More progress today. I was able to get the rivets in. This was no easy task. We finally had to file a point on the ends to drive them in. I bought a rivet gun and ordered the anvils for it. I'll use one of them in the vise to be the bucking board.
Then I got the washers and nuts ready to put the Hog's head and pedals on.
Then I got the washers and nuts ready to put the Hog's head and pedals on.
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
So tonight I put the brackets in the steering shaft. I got a rivet gun and riveted the quadrant. Not my best moment but it's secure and safe now.
Then I decided to put the gears on the end of the steering shaft to see how everything fit. The shaft is stamped with a 5 and so were the old gears. I got a new set of 5.1 gears and they fit but I couldn't turn them. You can see that here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RkjLVoaT-I
Then I tried adding grease and still they didn't move. Am I not understanding how planetary gears work? Am I a dummy because the whole shaft should move?
Then I decided to put the gears on the end of the steering shaft to see how everything fit. The shaft is stamped with a 5 and so were the old gears. I got a new set of 5.1 gears and they fit but I couldn't turn them. You can see that here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RkjLVoaT-I
Then I tried adding grease and still they didn't move. Am I not understanding how planetary gears work? Am I a dummy because the whole shaft should move?
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Put the cap on and hold the cap while you turn the sun (center) gear, that will make the three planet gears and the steering shaft they are pinned to turn.
Mark Strange
Hillsboro, MO
1924 Cut-off Touring (now a pickup)
Hillsboro, MO
1924 Cut-off Touring (now a pickup)
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
See I told you I was dumb. Ha!
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Robert, that tool you have at the back of the transmission I presume is some kind of centering device. My question to anyone who wants to respond, are the crank cases/pans machined accurately enough for such a device to be a reliable tool? I have always used the fourth main I am going to install as the guide for pan aligning.
Allan from down under.
Allan from down under.
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Robert,
You said.., "I did this and I did that" pictures speak a thousand words man. I guess the young lady is finally done with math exams. Small fingers, sharp young eyes, and a chance to help Dad all bonuses.
When installing those column rivets, I have found that having someone hold the column level on a piece of 1/2" round stock 6" long that has the end slightly drilled to a recessed to accept the top head side of the rivet (1/4"). Pinch the "buck" in a vice with about 3" exposed, invert the column on a level plane, and use a flat punch and ball pen hammer with multiple small strikes to swell the lower ends. Changing slightly the striking angle will give you a great appearance and attachment. The exposed rivet shank should be no greater than 1 1/2 times the diameter. Double layer some masking tape on the buck head will also protect the new rivet head.
We know who is really doing the work! (Wink Wink!) LOL
Great Progress,
Hank
You said.., "I did this and I did that" pictures speak a thousand words man. I guess the young lady is finally done with math exams. Small fingers, sharp young eyes, and a chance to help Dad all bonuses.
When installing those column rivets, I have found that having someone hold the column level on a piece of 1/2" round stock 6" long that has the end slightly drilled to a recessed to accept the top head side of the rivet (1/4"). Pinch the "buck" in a vice with about 3" exposed, invert the column on a level plane, and use a flat punch and ball pen hammer with multiple small strikes to swell the lower ends. Changing slightly the striking angle will give you a great appearance and attachment. The exposed rivet shank should be no greater than 1 1/2 times the diameter. Double layer some masking tape on the buck head will also protect the new rivet head.
We know who is really doing the work! (Wink Wink!) LOL
Great Progress,
Hank
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Allen, Yes that tool is a copy of the original. You can use the 4 main (I think this is how most do it) I'm giving this tool a try. My 4th main fits good and I find the tool is snug. This is also a 26 so I'm going to put the bolts in the Hog's Head around the tool first and see how much (if any) I have to shim at the block. I've read that if everything is perfect then you won't need shims. Time will tell.
Hank, Ha you found my secret weapon. Just recently I glued nuts on the end of her fingers so she could get them behind the dash and I could put the screws in from the other side. Ha!!
Hank, Ha you found my secret weapon. Just recently I glued nuts on the end of her fingers so she could get them behind the dash and I could put the screws in from the other side. Ha!!
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Old age and treachery will over come youth and skill!!!! Now see if she can remove the pebbles from your hand!
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Ok last night I learned a valuable lesson. Always test fit your Hog's Head before you put all that gasket sealer on. The first thing I did was trimming up the gaskets so they would fit.
The cover was difficult. I also found that the shorter blots provided in the bolt kit won't grab enough threads around the 4th main. That had me in a panic because I couldn't get the shorter bolts to thread. I tapped them and finally got some longer bolts to grab.
I also got the steering column tube repainted from all my riveting marks.
The Clutch fork was ok holding it with my fingers. The cover was difficult. I also found that the shorter blots provided in the bolt kit won't grab enough threads around the 4th main. That had me in a panic because I couldn't get the shorter bolts to thread. I tapped them and finally got some longer bolts to grab.
I also got the steering column tube repainted from all my riveting marks.
Last edited by Mopar_man on Fri Mar 26, 2021 3:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Great progress, thanks for sharing!
Mark Strange
Hillsboro, MO
1924 Cut-off Touring (now a pickup)
Hillsboro, MO
1924 Cut-off Touring (now a pickup)
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Just a little more tonight.
First I installed the oil petcock and sight gauge. I know most don't like them and I've seen the clear hose method. I'll be careful and make sure It doesn't get clogged. Then I installed the Mag post and outside oiler fittings.
Lastly I sealed the 4th main making sure to use assembly lube and making sure the little hole is on the top.
It's coming together.
First I installed the oil petcock and sight gauge. I know most don't like them and I've seen the clear hose method. I'll be careful and make sure It doesn't get clogged. Then I installed the Mag post and outside oiler fittings.
Lastly I sealed the 4th main making sure to use assembly lube and making sure the little hole is on the top.
It's coming together.
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Robert, the oil sight gauge goes in the bottom hole so you can read the levels between the petcocks. For you to get a reading, you will have to overfill the engine.
Allan from down under.
Allan from down under.
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Thanks Allen! You would think my dummy brain would have figured that out. I'll make the switch. Keep the comments coming you guys are keeping me from disaster.
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Why do you have the brass shims between the two top ears of the hogshead and the engine block? They do not belong there. Unless you have an alignment issue that you're trying to overcome, the hogshead ears are meant to come in direct contact with the block. Those teardrop shaped shims are supposed to bolt to the back of the engine block and protrude outwards to keep the felt strip from falling back into the transmission. Unless you used sealant on the felt to "glue" it in place, it can slip out from between the hogshead & block. In reality however, it couldn't go very far before the coil ring stops it.
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Pages 275-276 Ford Service Manual, Paragraph 1216 specifically: shimming the hogs head to block.
Scott Conger
Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny
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Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured
Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny
NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Interesting! I've never had to do that. Thanks!Scott_Conger wrote: ↑Sun Mar 28, 2021 9:20 amPages 275-276 Ford Service Manual, Paragraph 1216 specifically: shimming the hogs head to block.
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
After I put it together with the alignment tool and then checked it with the 4th main there was a gap between the ears and the block. I shimmed the gap with the same shims that are used for the Mag Ring. I have been told that sometimes you don't need to do this. I also "glued" the felt with gasket cement.
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Well tonight the pedals went in.
First thing I did was to fill the transmission with rags. Next I put the pedals in and springs (the springs are new so they were tough to compress) As you can see I used wire to hold the bands, then i used the Ford tool, and I tied the washer and nut with thread. I didn't want anything to fall into the engine. Ha! Then i put the cover on after some adjusting. This was the last adjustment. I have seen the diagram in many posts about pulling the pedal back and measuring 1/4 inch. But I've never seen where to measurement is taken. Is this the rich spot to measure?
First thing I did was to fill the transmission with rags. Next I put the pedals in and springs (the springs are new so they were tough to compress) As you can see I used wire to hold the bands, then i used the Ford tool, and I tied the washer and nut with thread. I didn't want anything to fall into the engine. Ha! Then i put the cover on after some adjusting. This was the last adjustment. I have seen the diagram in many posts about pulling the pedal back and measuring 1/4 inch. But I've never seen where to measurement is taken. Is this the rich spot to measure?
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Here is a video of how my pedal adjustments went. Does this look ok for the first go at it?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMXMOgV2oMc
Please let me know if you think it looks ok for the initial adjustment.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMXMOgV2oMc
Please let me know if you think it looks ok for the initial adjustment.
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Well today we had a big victory. I know there are a lot of you who have put an engine in while sleeping. HA!! Well my neighbor came by but it took my 16 year old daughter to line up the universal joint. I hand packed it with grease and I'll be filling it up with more now that it's together.
I also got the steering column together. Just have to put the gas and spark levers on. I've got a separate post about that.
I also got the steering column together. Just have to put the gas and spark levers on. I've got a separate post about that.
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Well tonight I discovered that the two small bolts that hold the top part of the ear of the engine to the frame are too short when you use the braces that go from that bolt to the top of the hog's head. I discovered this after I put everything together including the blocks of wood. So everything came back apart and I got some bolts that were longer. I put one in, put the nut on , and then marked the threads. Now I know where to drill the hole for the cotter pin. All this took me quite a long time to fit my fingers in-between the frame and get it together. My daughter was there to help and made the comment..... "I thought this hobby was supposed to be fun". Ha!!!
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Your sight oil gauge is in the wrong spot. Oil level is supposed to be between the 2 petcocks.
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
trans cover is upside down. Lower part of v is to direct oil onto bands. dosnt matter if you are using a screen. Do i see a gasket between D/S mount flange? No gasket there.
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Thanks for the info John. So the trans cover should be turned over. Thanks for that observation. I am going to use a trans screen. How come no gasket between the 4th main and the flange of the driveshaft? Will it cause a problem? I'm going to fix the sight gauge as well. Thanks for the input! That's why I post.
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Looking Good Robert! And of course we know the young lady is doing all the work!
Hank
Hank
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
D/S to 4th main is a ball joint. D/S tube thrusts front to back with acceleration & braking. Adding a gasket adds extra slop & wont prevent grease leaks anyway. Common mistake. Grease will spew around the ball part of the flange when full anyway. You can put a thin layer of silicone. That can prevent a ribbon of grease from between mount bolts, if the flange was not flat.
Thats a good lookin motor you built.
Thats a good lookin motor you built.
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Thanks for the info John. I'll get rid of the gasket. That makes sense.
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- Location: Fredericksburg, VA
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Well I picked up one of these. First I hand packed the universal joint with grease and now i can top it off with my new cup.
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Topic author - Posts: 1101
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
So this is the old grease cup I replaced. As you all have pointed out it's not for a T. Looks like it has a rubber gasket around the threads. No markings on it.
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Topic author - Posts: 1101
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Got some more done tonight.
I'm getting good at this.... I think. Or maybe not. I just noticed that the wire is not pulling on the correct side of the right bolt. Drat. I'll fix that.
Unfortunately as I was taking off my sight gauge I broke it. Not sure if they make a new fitting.
I also found out that the side bolt that were used before are too short.
I'm getting good at this.... I think. Or maybe not. I just noticed that the wire is not pulling on the correct side of the right bolt. Drat. I'll fix that.
Unfortunately as I was taking off my sight gauge I broke it. Not sure if they make a new fitting.
I also found out that the side bolt that were used before are too short.
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- First Name: Dick
- Last Name: Fischer
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Isn't it interesting that you often pick up on a mistake in a photo that you missed with your naked eye ?
I don't know whether the camera presents a different viewpoint than your eye had, or maybe you are taking more time to study the photo. One way or the other, looking at a photo is sorta like having a second person ("different set of eyes") check your work.
Dick
I don't know whether the camera presents a different viewpoint than your eye had, or maybe you are taking more time to study the photo. One way or the other, looking at a photo is sorta like having a second person ("different set of eyes") check your work.
Dick
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Topic author - Posts: 1101
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
So we finally got the correct bolts for the engine mounts and put them in.
We also put the outside oiler.-
- Posts: 69
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- First Name: Max
- Last Name: Lindsay
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 15 Touring, 21 Runabout
- Location: Newport News, VA
Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Robert, I can’t thank you enough for this thread. I fear I may have walked into quicksand with a ‘21 I recently purchased. The engine ran fine when I bought it. I changed the oil (which was really old, nasty smelling, and thin). When I fired it up, I heard a rattle after I raised the rpms. It came and went quickly. Throttled up again later and a quick rattle. The third time, a neighbor stopped by pointed at the trans. Ughhh... what I thought may have been junk that caught in the belt that tossed in the compartment may now be a fastener or other piece of metal bouncing around and knocking on the hogshead.
We’ll be checking in the coming weeks, it I fear I may be doing some serious engine/trans work. This ‘memo’ will offer a lot of help and things to consider. Thanks again... with any luck, I may not need it.
Cheers to you!
We’ll be checking in the coming weeks, it I fear I may be doing some serious engine/trans work. This ‘memo’ will offer a lot of help and things to consider. Thanks again... with any luck, I may not need it.
Cheers to you!
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Topic author - Posts: 1101
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Max I hope whatever came loose won't be hard to fix. This forum has been a wealth of information. I've learned a lot.
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- Board Member Since: 2005
Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Max
stop running that engine
every time from now on that you hear that rattle, add $100 to the cost of the repair...the repair won't get harder, but it will definitely get more expensive on parts.
It is near certain that a head has popped off of one of the brass magnet-keeper screws and liberated a keeper. That is a significant chunk of metal which has the ability to do considerable damage to other parts. Given the chance, it absolutely will.
stop running that engine
every time from now on that you hear that rattle, add $100 to the cost of the repair...the repair won't get harder, but it will definitely get more expensive on parts.
It is near certain that a head has popped off of one of the brass magnet-keeper screws and liberated a keeper. That is a significant chunk of metal which has the ability to do considerable damage to other parts. Given the chance, it absolutely will.
Scott Conger
Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny
NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured
Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny
NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured
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Topic author - Posts: 1101
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Had a great day messing around with cars. First My daughter drove for the first time on a major road to go get lunch. We came home and started in on Rattles.
First Angie applied some sealant to the water outlet or inlet I always forget.
Then she bolted it on.
The car had a water pump on it so I needed this part to put it back to stock. I was at Lang's and he had an NOS one. It was the same price so I got it.
First Angie applied some sealant to the water outlet or inlet I always forget.
Then she bolted it on.
The car had a water pump on it so I needed this part to put it back to stock. I was at Lang's and he had an NOS one. It was the same price so I got it.
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Topic author - Posts: 1101
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
So then it was on to bigger things and we decided to put the starter in while the steering column was out of the car.
The first part was fitting the bendex and attaching the spring. This should be the proper way for the TAB on the washer to go. Then Angie and I put the starter in with the 4 screws. She then slipped the bendex on the shaft.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWeIQ-ZE7Y0
This is a little trick to hold the screw on the screwdriver. Go to your AC unit outside of your house. Take a small piece of sealant from where the tubes go into the house. put it on the screwdriver and you can now stick a screw to it.
Angie then put the cover on. We started the bottom screw and then gently placed the cover on it and then screwed in the others. Starter is now in. I had to get the shaft straightened the rest was already rebuilt and working great.
The first part was fitting the bendex and attaching the spring. This should be the proper way for the TAB on the washer to go. Then Angie and I put the starter in with the 4 screws. She then slipped the bendex on the shaft.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWeIQ-ZE7Y0
This is a little trick to hold the screw on the screwdriver. Go to your AC unit outside of your house. Take a small piece of sealant from where the tubes go into the house. put it on the screwdriver and you can now stick a screw to it.
Angie then put the cover on. We started the bottom screw and then gently placed the cover on it and then screwed in the others. Starter is now in. I had to get the shaft straightened the rest was already rebuilt and working great.
Last edited by Mopar_man on Sun Apr 25, 2021 7:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Topic author - Posts: 1101
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Then we put the throttle and timer levers on with the pins. This was a pain using new pins, new levers, and old rods. Took a while to get the holes to line up.
Next we will try the intake and exhaust manifolds.
Next we will try the intake and exhaust manifolds.
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- Posts: 3870
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- First Name: john
- Last Name: karvaly
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 14/15 wide track roadster. 23 touring, 27 roadster pickup, 20ish rajo touring
- Location: orange, ca
- MTFCA Number: 14383
- Board Member Since: 2020
Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
3 friendly observations from these last pix's. Trans inspection cover is up side down. Center v goes down. 2 -starter brush cover, if like original, has opening (screw & nut up) in line with input stud. 3, may be an optical dillusion but, steering arm ball doesnt look round. Should be a 1.000" diameter ball.
Keep up the good work.
Keep up the good work.
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Topic author - Posts: 1101
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Thanks I will make the changes. I knew about the cover. I'm going to flip it. I have a transmission screen as well. Is the starter band just because that's where it was placed on the assembly line? Should the generator band go in the up position in line with the cutout?
Oh and the ball is round. It just looks weird in the photo.
Oh and the ball is round. It just looks weird in the photo.
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Up is to get to the easiest access to the brushes. On the generator to adjust 3rd brush.
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Topic author - Posts: 1101
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
So tonight I just did a few things. First I installed the Transmission screen as well as sandblasted the transmission inspection door repainting it on the correct side. Ha! Thanks for the correction.
I also gathered up some more of the parts to go on the engine. All have been rebuilt. Hope it all works. Ha!!
Here is an update of what my daughter and I have done so far.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkVyrlFdwXE
I used sealant between the gasket and hog's head. Then a bit of grease then the oil screen and greased the edges of that as well. I then put sealant on another gasket and sealed it to the cover. More thin grease was added to that gasket as well. Now I should be able to get it apart to clean it. I also gathered up some more of the parts to go on the engine. All have been rebuilt. Hope it all works. Ha!!
Here is an update of what my daughter and I have done so far.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkVyrlFdwXE
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Topic author - Posts: 1101
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Today we got a lot of the what I would call bolt on's done on the T. My daughter did most of the work this time and her comment was: "We must be doing something wrong. Everything seems to be going together without a problem."
Last edited by Mopar_man on Sat May 01, 2021 10:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Topic author - Posts: 1101
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Some more of what we did. We were able to get all the glands to fit.
It looks like a Model T engine now!!
It looks like a Model T engine now!!
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- Posts: 2789
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- First Name: Dallas
- Last Name: Landers
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 26 Rpu, 23 TT, 24 coupe,
- Location: N.E. Indiana
- MTFCA Number: 49995
Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
I think she is earning the 1st drive. Good to see her letting you watch and spending time with you.
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Topic author - Posts: 1101
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Ya know I had one of those nights where I found out I did something wrong and things have to come apart. When I put the valve cover on I didn't notice that the hole where the throttle rod comes through was closer to one side then the other. This caused the hole to end up directly behind the intake.
So I'm thinking that the valve cover has to come off and be turned around. As my daughter said "We must be doing something wrong. Everything seems to be going together without a problem." She was right.
So I'm thinking that the valve cover has to come off and be turned around. As my daughter said "We must be doing something wrong. Everything seems to be going together without a problem." She was right.
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Topic author - Posts: 1101
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
So tonight I completed the installation of the ANCO Timer. I discovered an issue that was mentioned in a previous post.
The washer that covers the pin has a slot on the bottom. The problem is the slot isn't big enough and the flapper won't spring like it should. You can see the issue here (I'm pointing to the problem area with this yellow file):
This is the slot I'm talking about I ground the slot to make it bigger.
You can see the whole issue here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7qtWPssSf8
Now the flapper moves freely and the timer is on.
The washer that covers the pin has a slot on the bottom. The problem is the slot isn't big enough and the flapper won't spring like it should. You can see the issue here (I'm pointing to the problem area with this yellow file):
This is the slot I'm talking about I ground the slot to make it bigger.
You can see the whole issue here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7qtWPssSf8
Now the flapper moves freely and the timer is on.
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Topic author - Posts: 1101
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
The mail is killing me. I ordered some parts from Lang's and they put it in the mail on the 4th. It shows up on the USPS tracker still in MA! 8 days and it hasn't moved. I know be patient.
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Topic author - Posts: 1101
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
My package is now in Richmond VA. Almost here. My daughter had some time to help me and we got the steering column in.
So this made both of us feel dumb and then we had a good laugh. We put down a bolt and nut and couldn't see where we put them. So we go the LED shop light and started looking for a good 5 minutes. Then she discovered them stuck to the magnet on the light.
She was hooking up the lower part of the shaft.So this made both of us feel dumb and then we had a good laugh. We put down a bolt and nut and couldn't see where we put them. So we go the LED shop light and started looking for a good 5 minutes. Then she discovered them stuck to the magnet on the light.
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- First Name: Pat
- Last Name: McNallen
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926-7 roadster
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- MTFCA Number: 51486
- Board Member Since: 2021
Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Wow.... 20 days in the mail, MA to VA .... and counting. Looks like we need to re-commission the Pony Express!
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Topic author - Posts: 1101
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Well I got my parts. The steering column is in and now I'm bending the timing rod to get it to fit. I have a problem with the unerversual joint on the carb it hits the ear of the Carb. You can see the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bqbvpdm8pg
I've also been playing with the Hood Shelves and wood blocks. I listed that in another post.
I also got my Pack Nut to go on by loosing up the exhaust system.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bqbvpdm8pg
I've also been playing with the Hood Shelves and wood blocks. I listed that in another post.
I also got my Pack Nut to go on by loosing up the exhaust system.
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- Posts: 1112
- Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:01 am
- First Name: Mark
- Last Name: Nunn
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926 Runabout
- Location: Bennington, NE
- MTFCA Number: 50321
- Board Member Since: 2017
Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
I bought a new universal joint a few years ago for the Kingston L4 on my 26. It fit perfectly right out of the package. Then last year I bought one when I rebuilt the NH that is on the car now and that U-joint had the same binding problem that you're seeing. I did what you described in your video. I widened the area above the pin holes a little and it works great now. The Kingston's U-joint already had that wider area for clearance.
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Topic author - Posts: 1101
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Today I was able to get out and fix the universal joint on the carb. I used a large punch and bent the ears around it to create some more space. Problem solved.
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Topic author - Posts: 1101
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- Board Member Since: 2016
Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
This time I was adjusting the Carburetor Rod. I got it close but I'm a bit concerned that the throttle isn't closing all the way. IS it good enough to get the car started? You can see that in this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBt4B8-a9g0
I also was able to get the fuse on the wire that attaches to the battery side of the starter switch. Make sure you insert the wire into the rubber holder before you crimp the terminal on. Don't ask me how I know. What a dummy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBt4B8-a9g0
I also was able to get the fuse on the wire that attaches to the battery side of the starter switch. Make sure you insert the wire into the rubber holder before you crimp the terminal on. Don't ask me how I know. What a dummy.
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- Last Name: Clements
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- MTFCA Number: 49592
Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
I ran into the same issue on my 26 Roadster. Yes, it does need to let the butterfly close. As it is, your idle will be pretty fast. You need to make the rod longer. Keep shaping it and you will get it there.
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Topic author - Posts: 1101
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Got some work done tonight. I was able to bolt in one hood shelf. Had to do a little trimming of the wood and use long punches to get it to line up but not that hard.
Now I just have a bit of trimming on the other side to do.
Now I just have a bit of trimming on the other side to do.
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- First Name: Andre
- Last Name: Valkenaers
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926 ; 1922 ; 1915.
- Location: Scherpenheuvel
- MTFCA Number: 23792
- MTFCI Number: 19330
Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Great story and great pictures.
Just one advice, on one of the photos with the starter motor mounted on the engine You should turn the rear cover till the screw and the open part is on top to prevent a short at the starter contact post.
I enjoyed you story.
Thanks
Andre
Belgium
Just one advice, on one of the photos with the starter motor mounted on the engine You should turn the rear cover till the screw and the open part is on top to prevent a short at the starter contact post.
I enjoyed you story.
Thanks
Andre
Belgium
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- Location: Scherpenheuvel
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- MTFCI Number: 19330
Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
reviewed the photos and saw you did the change already.
Great
Andre
Belgium
Great
Andre
Belgium
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Topic author - Posts: 1101
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Thanks Andre. I hope to get the other hood shelf in wiring as well as throttle rod adjusted. Then I'll be ready to time it.
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Topic author - Posts: 1101
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- MTFCA Number: 32331
- Board Member Since: 2016
Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Well I found out that the wood blocks that go under the hood shelves are too thick. I know I'll have to do some more wood fitting when I start the interior so I bought a sanding machine. Looks like I need to take off about 1/16 of an inch. I did a test fit of the radiator and the bolts were not going all the way through the thimbles. I took me a bit to line up all the holes.
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
The wood blocks are probably fine. All that I had to do was enlarge a few holes. Use a pry bar, or wedge a chisel under the plates to push them up and the studs will protrude past the radiator and shell allowing you to install the nuts. If you trim down the wood, you might loose some of the tension on the hood latches? Are you planning to install the splash shields too?
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Topic author - Posts: 1101
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- MTFCA Number: 32331
- Board Member Since: 2016
Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
So this is the reason why I think it needs to be sanded down a bit. The hood shelf is an original one and you can see the woodblock is not allowing the shelf to fully seat on the frame and fender.
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- MTFCA Number: 51486
- Board Member Since: 2021
Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
I think the hood shelves should have a gap under them so they don't quite touch the fender apron, maybe 1/8" or a little less. If they are very close or in contact, they will chafe and squeak. With new wood, the parts will "bed in" after a few hundred miles of operation and will likely need tightened, so a little extra gap with a new assembly might be good. However, you don't want the radiator mounts clamped tight to the frame. It's important that a little movement can occur at the lower mounting plate to allow for frame flex. In other words, the radiator mount springs should hold the radiator down, not the thimbles.
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Topic author - Posts: 1101
- Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:24 pm
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- MTFCA Number: 32331
- Board Member Since: 2016
Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
So I think I'm going to leave them as is for now. Once I fit the radiator I'll see how it goes and if I need to sand them down a bit. I can always sand a little but I can't put the wood back.
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- Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 4:17 pm
- First Name: Mark
- Last Name: Strange
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1924 Cut Off Touring (now a pickup)
- Location: Hillsboro, MO
- MTFCA Number: 30944
- MTFCI Number: 23667
- Board Member Since: 2013
Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
I just looked at my 1924, the wood blocks extend about 1/8 inch below the sheet metal of the hood shelf. The blocks are nearly 10 years old.
Mark Strange
Hillsboro, MO
1924 Cut-off Touring (now a pickup)
Hillsboro, MO
1924 Cut-off Touring (now a pickup)
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Topic author - Posts: 1101
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- MTFCA Number: 32331
- Board Member Since: 2016
Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Good to know. Thanks for checking. I like the idea of getting a wedge to push up on the spring and bolt.
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Topic author - Posts: 1101
- Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:24 pm
- First Name: Robert
- Last Name: Govoni
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926 Touring
- Location: Fredericksburg, VA
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- Board Member Since: 2016
Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
So tonight I got some more done. The hood shelves went on. Not without a fight!! Trying to line up all the holes in the frame, wood, shelf, fender and splash apron all close to 100 years old will drive you crazy.
Then I adjusted my throttle rod. I closed this gap on the carburetor down to 24 thousandths. I think that will get me started. I put the fuel line on with some lock tight made for sealing fuel threads. Then the coils went in.
Then I adjusted my throttle rod. I closed this gap on the carburetor down to 24 thousandths. I think that will get me started. I put the fuel line on with some lock tight made for sealing fuel threads. Then the coils went in.
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- First Name: Henry
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Looking Good Robert! And of course the Helper!
Hank
Hank
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- Posts: 1112
- Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:01 am
- First Name: Mark
- Last Name: Nunn
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926 Runabout
- Location: Bennington, NE
- MTFCA Number: 50321
- Board Member Since: 2017
Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Robert, can you post a photo of this strap from the back of the engine? I have seen photos from the front but not the back. My Runabout does not have them and suffers teeth-buzzing and vision-blurring vibration between 31 and 35 mph. I want to make a pair of those straps to, hopefully, reduce vibration. Thanks.
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- First Name: Mark
- Last Name: Strange
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1924 Cut Off Touring (now a pickup)
- Location: Hillsboro, MO
- MTFCA Number: 30944
- MTFCI Number: 23667
- Board Member Since: 2013
Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/70 ... 1493148972
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/33 ... 1383268020
http://www.mtfca.com/discus/messages/33 ... 1383268020
Mark Strange
Hillsboro, MO
1924 Cut-off Touring (now a pickup)
Hillsboro, MO
1924 Cut-off Touring (now a pickup)
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- Posts: 1112
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Thanks Mark. I should have checked with the vendors before posting.
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Topic author - Posts: 1101
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- Board Member Since: 2016
Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
We we were able to get into the garage tonight. Got more of the wiring done. Angie now knows how to follow a wiring diagram.
Here is a video of Angie wiring up the coil box.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2t99iXQvjc
Here is a video of Angie wiring up the coil box.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2t99iXQvjc
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Topic author - Posts: 1101
- Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:24 pm
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
This was the completed product so far. Anyone see any issues?
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Topic author - Posts: 1101
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
So tonight I attached the wires to the timer and installed a new timing rod. I had to Dent and push my Copper oil line out of the way so the rod won't hit it. I was told that's a common mistake. Bending the rod to go around the outside oiler.
So I also learned that when you attach the wires make sure the TAB of the contact is facing the front. You can see that here I first put it towards the back and it could hit the timing cover. Here you can see how I routed the wires after I got it all together. I also rerouted the wires to the coil box.
So I also learned that when you attach the wires make sure the TAB of the contact is facing the front. You can see that here I first put it towards the back and it could hit the timing cover. Here you can see how I routed the wires after I got it all together. I also rerouted the wires to the coil box.
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Topic author - Posts: 1101
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
So tonight I did a bit more wiring on Rattles. I ran the brake light wire I used the grommet kit from Lang's
The diagrams I found show the spring and insulator attached to the rear frame The other two are tied to the frame of the Battery cage. One is supposed to be used in place of a cotter pin on the rear spring clamp. Thanks to everyone who helped answer my questions in another post I did.-
Topic author - Posts: 1101
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Then I wired up most of the horn.
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Topic author - Posts: 1101
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Last night the horn button went on.
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Topic author - Posts: 1101
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Next step Timing the engine. I'm starting off with a new timing rod from Lang's. With the lever all the way up I first made sure that it didn't hit anything. This was accomplished by moving other things that were in the way NOT BENDING THE NEW ROD!! I had to take a wide punch and tap the outside oiler to move it. Made a few marks on it but it's now out of the way. I will also watch for the Radiator hose as well.
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Topic author - Posts: 1101
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Tonight I heard my coils going for the first time! I'm almost there.
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- First Name: Scott
- Last Name: Conger
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Even more excitement will soon follow...
Scott Conger
Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny
NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured
Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny
NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured
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Topic author - Posts: 1101
- Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:24 pm
- First Name: Robert
- Last Name: Govoni
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926 Touring
- Location: Fredericksburg, VA
- MTFCA Number: 32331
- Board Member Since: 2016
Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
I can't wait. I don't have an interior yet so I cut a 2x6 to sit on.
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Topic author - Posts: 1101
- Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:24 pm
- First Name: Robert
- Last Name: Govoni
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926 Touring
- Location: Fredericksburg, VA
- MTFCA Number: 32331
- Board Member Since: 2016
Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
So tonight I solved a problem with the stud that holds the radiator on. The holes it has to pass through (frame, wood, hood shelf) were a bit small and the bolt would not slide up in the hole. So my solution was to put a piece of wood with a hole for the stud, then a washer, then a nut. I tightened the nut and it pulled the stud through the hole. So I thought I would go a little further and compress the spring a bit.
Then the comedy of errors happened.
The first Thing that happened was I unscrewed the stud from the bar of metal and sheered off the cotter pin.
Next I could no longer turn the nut without the stud just spinning so I had to hold the end with pliers
After a bit I got the stud out and drilled out the hole so the stud would fit better. Of course this messed up the threads.
So out come my set of dies to fix the threads.
Then I had to hold the bar of metal jut right to screw the stud in.
Other than that the car has been so much fun......
Then the comedy of errors happened.
The first Thing that happened was I unscrewed the stud from the bar of metal and sheered off the cotter pin.
Next I could no longer turn the nut without the stud just spinning so I had to hold the end with pliers
After a bit I got the stud out and drilled out the hole so the stud would fit better. Of course this messed up the threads.
So out come my set of dies to fix the threads.
Then I had to hold the bar of metal jut right to screw the stud in.
Other than that the car has been so much fun......
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Topic author - Posts: 1101
- Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:24 pm
- First Name: Robert
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- Board Member Since: 2016
Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Found another issue that others could be having. The placement of the bolt that hold the oil pan on. I saw that you should have the bold head facing down neat the timer so that it doesn't hit it and short out. But the bolt on the other side was rubbing on the timing rod.
inserting the bolt the other way solved the problem. I know this is basic but it may help if you can't see where your timing rod may be hitting.
inserting the bolt the other way solved the problem. I know this is basic but it may help if you can't see where your timing rod may be hitting.
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Topic author - Posts: 1101
- Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:24 pm
- First Name: Robert
- Last Name: Govoni
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Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Made some good progress on Rattles. First I got the radiator on. I used blocks of wood to push up the studs and a clamp to pull down the radiator and got it on.
I think the angle is a bit forward bu I can adjust that later.
Got my headlight all set up.
Then I got the light bar on.
Then I ran into trouble. I was able to put the headlight ring on the passenger side with little issue. When i did the same for the driver's side I couldn't get the trim ring to go on. So I took the glass off because I didn't want to smash it and test fit the ring. It went on but won't come off. In the past I was able to just turn them and they would come on and off with little issue.
But the light do work!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IE6F8JvwP4
I also got the choke wire on.
Here it is working https://youtu.be/tDnBX0qk2Nc
I think the angle is a bit forward bu I can adjust that later.
Got my headlight all set up.
Then I got the light bar on.
Then I ran into trouble. I was able to put the headlight ring on the passenger side with little issue. When i did the same for the driver's side I couldn't get the trim ring to go on. So I took the glass off because I didn't want to smash it and test fit the ring. It went on but won't come off. In the past I was able to just turn them and they would come on and off with little issue.
But the light do work!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IE6F8JvwP4
I also got the choke wire on.
Here it is working https://youtu.be/tDnBX0qk2Nc
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Topic author - Posts: 1101
- Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:24 pm
- First Name: Robert
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- Board Member Since: 2016
Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Well it seemed so simple. We are ready to start it and while filling up the radiator we sprung several leaks. The first ones were at the long tube. I was able to tighten up the clamps and stopped them. The one I can't get yet is the upper hose. No matter how tight I have the clamps I get a drip. I've heard that these original clamps don't work well and that I should just get some regular hose clamps. I'm going to give it a go one more time.
I haven't tried to trim the hose yet and that may be my issue. If this is the only thing that goes wrong I'll be happy.
I haven't tried to trim the hose yet and that may be my issue. If this is the only thing that goes wrong I'll be happy.
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- Posts: 1069
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:18 pm
- First Name: John
- Last Name: Warren
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 14 Roadster, 25 Pickup , 26 Canadian Touring , and a 24-28 TA race car
- Location: Henderson, Nevada
Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Start the engine and let it warm up, it will stop. Re tighten the clamp while warm.
Love the build, thanks for taking us along. JW.
Love the build, thanks for taking us along. JW.
24-28 TA race car, 26 Canadian touring, 25 Roadster pickup, 14 Roadster, and 11AB Maxwell runabout
Keep it simple and keep a good junk pile if you want to invent something
Keep it simple and keep a good junk pile if you want to invent something
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Topic author - Posts: 1101
- Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:24 pm
- First Name: Robert
- Last Name: Govoni
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926 Touring
- Location: Fredericksburg, VA
- MTFCA Number: 32331
- Board Member Since: 2016
Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
Thanks for the tip John. I'll give that a go when I re-torque the head bolts.
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- Location: Clark, WY
- Board Member Since: 2005
Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
In the event of a drip that just won't quit, I drain and dry the area, then put a light schmeer of Ultra Black on the outlet and the same on the inside of the hose. Reinstall everything and adjust the radiator rod correctly. Clamp hoses with modern band clamps and cure overnight. Remove the band clamps and install the useless "original" clamps (as they are no longer really functional). Nary a drip from then on.
Future radiator removals are effected by unbolting the union at the head and side of the engine...never fiddle with the hoses again.
You will not believe how easy it is to remove and replace the radiator that way if you have to do repairs on the front of the engine.
Future radiator removals are effected by unbolting the union at the head and side of the engine...never fiddle with the hoses again.
You will not believe how easy it is to remove and replace the radiator that way if you have to do repairs on the front of the engine.
Scott Conger
Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny
NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured
Tyranny under the guise of law is still Tyranny
NH Full Flow Float Valves
Obsolete carburetor parts manufactured
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- Posts: 1112
- Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:01 am
- First Name: Mark
- Last Name: Nunn
- * REQUIRED* Type and Year of Model Ts owned: 1926 Runabout
- Location: Bennington, NE
- MTFCA Number: 50321
- Board Member Since: 2017
Re: Getting Rattles Back On The Road
The headlight rope goes in the groove of the reflector, not around the outside. Put a few dabs of grease in the groove to hold the rope while you install the lens. The ends of the rope go down to let moisture drain out.