MTFCA Forum

Well, I went an did it. I found a reasonably priced Frontenac head. It's a single port "T" model. Appears to be in fine shape. Used to belong to Tom Moore from Mass. The only thing is, It does not have any rocker arms.

Now I'm a pretty resourceful kinda of guy. And being versed in V-8 performance engines, thus, the wheel are turning in my head of a solution or two. But there must be something out there besides the uber hard to find originals that can be used. I'd like to stick with a 1.5 ratio, but more importantly for me, I just need the right spacing between the pushrod end and the valve tip end...which happens to be about 2-3/4". The '28 Chevy rockers are too long. A big block chevy is a a smidge to short. It was suggest MGB rockers would fit, they are way to short.

So is anyone into other engines that have rocker arms they can measure for me? Or has anyone bought a head and found some rockers that can work or be made to work? I'd prefer a shaft mount, but I can easily make a stud mount (like a typical small block chevy)

Thank You

YB Ford blocks.

Hank

Really? That easy? Thanks Hank!

Y block rockers are simply one suggestion. You don’t have to go the easy route... Could always make what you need from scratch

Yeah, if I had the tools and machinery to make my own.

I just had some Y block rockers measured out however for me, and they too seem to come up short by a little bit. If someone has made them work, id like to see pics.

Chad I’ll post some pics tomorrow. I used a set that Jack Daron made up before he passed. He used to sell a lot of them. I’m not sure they are what Hank mentioned , but possibly so. Going from memory, we needed to use a small cap between the rocker arm and lifter that are made to revolve, used when things don’t exactly line up. T

Beautiful Work as always Kevin!

Hank.

Early model Nash 6 cyl.

Tim,

What is the number cast into the side of those rockers?

Would it be possible to get a few more shots of that setup--including one directly above a pair of rockers?

Thank You for the time in doing this.

Chad, I have to tweak my firewall a bit to get the valve cover off easily. I’ll get to it soon, and can take better pics then. T

Looks like 3” between push rod center and valve stem center

Tim: I think I have the mold to have those rockers cast. JP

A little searching on the web shows the EBP rockers coming from a 223 cube Ford 6.

Tim, THANK YOU!

What baffles me is why a straight rocker arm isn't landing on the valve tip. The pushrod to valve stem tip should be a straight shot.

But this is getting somewhere now. The geometry isn't that great with those 223 rockers, but it looks usable. I am being a little to picky I guess, I tend to get a little anal building engines.

Edit: I just picked up a used set of the 223 rockers to give it a shot. I'll still be looking though for other options.

On your older Sioux valve resurfacers there is an attachment for resetting that angle.

Hank

I know that Rocker Arm Unlimited (formerly Rocker Arm Specialty) makes billet rockers to fit the A overheads... and know they have done T’s too. Might be worth the call...?

I have tried to call and email them (Rocker Arms Unlimited) to no avail. From things I have read, they (like alot of companies) are not what they used to be, as far as service goes.

There are several other custom rocker companies out there, and because I can hide all that under the valve cover, I am not opposed to them. In fact I'd prefer that style. But it really will have to wait for the $$ to recoup. I will have to settle a little and make some compromises in the mean time. Tim's photos look promising as a good compromise. And if it helps someone else in the future, all the better. I will of course post my results when I get to setting it up with the 223 rockers.

But I will still be looking for other solutions. I'm a stickler for details in engine building after building performance V-8s for so many years.

You are correct, the Ford 6 rockers leave a lot to be desired geometry wise. You can make them work, but . . . . .
The Nash are the best off-the shelf solution. Problem is there are none on the shelf any more!

For the sake of the conversation, approximately what year(s) early Nash are we talking about---'20's?

I found an old forum post saying that 1920's Buick rockers were what was used originally on Frontenac heads. But those might as well be gold also.

This is all out of my area of expertise, so I’m glad to learn more and follow along. I’d say if you can find a perfect substitute , go with it. I like the design of the adjustment, so much better than the adjustable push rods. If it helps any, my head was rebuilt by a small, full time shop local to me. They also have a shop in Michigan. They do a lot of top fuel dragster motors as we are so close to summit dragway. They didn’t have any problem, and said the rockers would have worked fine as they were, and the small cups were his suggestion , an off the shelf solution to improve things like this, I guess. They were glad to do something different for a change, instead of those 800hp monsters. I had another complete fronty head at the time,and chose this path. Engine Joe Bell finished up the engine, and we used all the NOS stuff I was hoarding, crank,trans parts, etc. the motor sounds wonderful, and I’m hopeful it lasts. My T mentors always said, don’t overthink it, it’s just a T.

Tim, Do you know if they opened up the old valve guides in the block to allow more freedom of the pushrod?

The reason I am asking, is the original Frontenac setup did not need that because of the design of the pushrods and rockers as a "slider" setup but moving to a more positive ball and cup connection on essentially both ends, it would almost (probably would) put a bind in the pushrod itself being now controlled by three points of contact (lifter, block valve guide, and rocker arm).

Yes, I can and do overthink some of this stuff...building a better mousetrap if you will, but I enjoy the building, thought, problem solving, and execution process. I like applying other modern principals to older designs....but lets face it, the reality is a bone stock black era to improved era (My opinion) Model T doesn't have too many faults from a realistic standpoint anyhow. But with stuff like a Fronty, were not really talking stock anymore.

And I am thoroughly enjoying this discussion. Thank You fellows for participating.

Nash Rocker

Dan, do you know what year Nash?