***1926-1927 Cowl Mounted Fuel Tank for RHD Vehicles***

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***1926-1927 Cowl Mounted Fuel Tank for RHD Vehicles***

Post by VowellArt » Sun Jan 12, 2020 7:00 am

I'm not really sure about some of this assembly, a friend on FB inquired as to if I was planning on doing the RHD (Right Hand Drive) version of the 26-27 cowl mounted tank. Seemed like I'd been avoiding anything RHD so I thought I might as well get started on their assemblies too.

I'm not sure if the RHD cars in 27 had the cardboard pad that fits up inside the cowl between the tank and the firewall, if somebody knows if they did or didn't please let me know so I can amend the drawing as needed. Also not sure as to the shape of the fuel line from the sediment bulb to the carburetor, seemed to me that it would need that big loop like on our domestic cars, but I'm not sure, also not sure if you can use the tin plated brass line sold by most of the vendors or not, there seems to be a lot of tight bending on this fuel line. I'm also thinking that, that groove that is on the lower portion of the firewall is for the RHD fuel line to travel across the back of the engine, not sure of that either, but it seems to make sense (at least to me), or maybe it fits higher so as to clear the steering shaft.

One thing I can tell you, is the tank is a reverse of the LHD tank and it sits 2 inches to the left of where the domestic tank would install at, so the firewall is totally different as well, because the connection block and wire loom come through the firewall above the steering column just like it would on our cars, only it is on the other side. The nuts are still the same size (no metric nonsense here) as on our domestic cars also.

Of course in this projection the tank looks foreshortened, but it really isn't, the deceptive part is that the curvature on the end of the tank makes it look shorter than it actually is. Since this is a 2D drawing I can only show depth by moving things sideways, but also I have to consider that if I move that tank over the cowl will obscure most of the tank, so to counter that I let the guide lines show where it goes and left the tank more opposite than where it would mount to....what can I say...fun never quits! ;)


1926-1927FuelTankAssembly-CowlRHD-1-A.jpg
Also have to work up the controls for the throttle and spark advance for these cars as well, so if any of you have pictures as to how the linkage is set up, I'd appreciate seeing them.
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Re: ***1926-1927 Cowl Mounted Fuel Tank for RHD Vehicles***

Post by VowellArt » Sun Jan 12, 2020 6:14 pm

Revision 1-B, moved the under strap over 2 inches, corrected the tank fuel outlet position and move the tank to firewall pads over to their correct position also. Put outline definition lines in to clarify guide and parts lines.

1926-1927FuelTankAssembly-CowlRHD1-B.jpg
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Re: ***1926-1927 Cowl Mounted Fuel Tank for RHD Vehicles***

Post by Kerry » Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:18 pm

Martynn
I,m working fron a note pad at the moment, computer died, so can,t post photo.
The tank has a different shape to what you have drawn, the bottom edge facing the seat is rolled not square and a dish in the tank for the steering column.

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Re: ***1926-1927 Cowl Mounted Fuel Tank for RHD Vehicles***

Post by VowellArt » Sun Jan 12, 2020 11:11 pm

Kerry the one I've drawn is a real RHD fuel tank and is the exact opposite of the LHD version, but I do remember the dish in the tank's underside for what I was told was the steering column for the RHD's on a domestic tank, maybe they discontinued making them in 26 in the RHD version and opted to make universal domestic tank that would work with both 26 and 27 here and abroad. In the drawing I forgot about that rolled side and have corrected it and labeled it Revision 1-C.

1.jpg
This is an RHD tank, we are looking up at it from the underside. Notice the flat end of the tank? It does not have a dished in area in the tank for the steering column, but clears it entirely. Yet it does look just like the our domestic tanks opposite. From what I understand from Paul Hunter (his car), these are a pretty rare find in your Canadian source cars these days, but since then did exist I have to draw them.

1926-1927FuelTankAssembly-CowlRHD1-C.jpg

Everything else is pretty much the same with the exception that the tank bands are moved to the left by about 2 inches from where it would be on our domestic cars.

3.jpg
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Re: ***1926-1927 Cowl Mounted Fuel Tank for RHD Vehicles***

Post by Kerry » Sun Jan 12, 2020 11:54 pm

Yes, my mistake, I was looking at a tank out of the car, checked one in and the indent is not for the steering but for ones foot to clear the tank at the high low pedal.

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Re: ***1926-1927 Cowl Mounted Fuel Tank for RHD Vehicles***

Post by John E. Guitar » Mon Jan 13, 2020 3:38 am

Here are a few photos of my 26 Tourer as found. Note the location of the outlet on the sediment bowl. I’ve since replaced it with an S.61578 tractor sediment bowl.

I’ve got a fuel tank in one of my boxes of treasure. I’ll see if I can find it tomorrow and take some photos.

Thanks for drawing this up Martyn. Your drawings have been very helpful.

7FD97BF7-3E46-40F5-81C0-0991A2DB198D.jpeg
0BC1E5C8-B4E1-4F10-836E-4299E8E6036F.jpeg
61CC77D6-8761-4B75-88A9-164399C1EAA2.jpeg
2E50204F-1695-4576-9448-21326182850A.jpeg

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Re: ***1926-1927 Cowl Mounted Fuel Tank for RHD Vehicles***

Post by VowellArt » Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:03 pm

So, John, your throttle and spark are also reversed on your cars? Looking at that one picture looks like your throttle is on the left side of the steering column.
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Re: ***1926-1927 Cowl Mounted Fuel Tank for RHD Vehicles***

Post by Luke » Mon Jan 13, 2020 5:54 pm

Martynn,

Yes that's right.

I'm a little lower down than John but our RHD cars have the advance lever to the outside (RHS) and the throttle to inside of the cab (LHS).

For me, with a LHD vehicle, I need to remember it that way (outside/inside) so I don't mess things up when swapping between LHD/RHD...

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Re: ***1926-1927 Cowl Mounted Fuel Tank for RHD Vehicles***

Post by VowellArt » Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:53 pm

Luke, could you post pictures of your linkage rods? I need to see what they look like so I can draw these assemblies also. The carburetors will be the same as all Model T carbs are, but what it takes to control them from the steering column and its levers is what I need to see.
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Re: ***1926-1927 Cowl Mounted Fuel Tank for RHD Vehicles***

Post by Allan » Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:28 pm

Martynn, Luke, I have never seen a carburetor linkage like the one in Luke's photo. All those with which I am familiar arc around behind the inlet manifold to connect to the carburetor. This means a different throttle plate lever is needed on RHD cars, where the linking hole on the end, the throttle plate shaft, and the idle adjust screw, are all roughly in line.
I am unfamiliar with the linkage used on vaporiser carbs. Perhaps the linkage shown is a modified vaproriser linkage. I wish I could post photos for you.

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Re: ***1926-1927 Cowl Mounted Fuel Tank for RHD Vehicles***

Post by Luke » Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:24 am

That's John's photo, not mine.

Sorry if I confused things by butting in, it's just that we get up a few hours earlier :mrgreen:

I expect that John will post the requisite photo but if not I'll see if one could be arranged tomorrow.

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Re: ***1926-1927 Cowl Mounted Fuel Tank for RHD Vehicles***

Post by VowellArt » Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:04 am

What linkage is the one Allan mentioned? Have you seen other configurations?
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Re: ***1926-1927 Cowl Mounted Fuel Tank for RHD Vehicles***

Post by Kerry » Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:49 am

The throttle arm that go,s from the butterfly shaft to the control shaft on the steering colum, it is a half circle rod that go,s around and behind the inlet manifold. The one in the photo looks to be a home made one for a LHD carbie.

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Re: ***1926-1927 Cowl Mounted Fuel Tank for RHD Vehicles***

Post by John E. Guitar » Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:03 am

Here are some blurry photos of my 1924 Tudor I took a few years back. You can see the linkage Allan and Frank are talking about.

I'll try and take some better shots tomorrow.

IMG_0085.JPG
IMG_0096.JPG
IMG_0095.jpg


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Re: ***1926-1927 Cowl Mounted Fuel Tank for RHD Vehicles***

Post by Luxford » Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:20 am

This is a throttle linkage on an earlier car but shows the position of the RHD throttle plate lever in the closed position.
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RHD06.jpg
RHD06.jpg (91 KiB) Viewed 2572 times

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Re: ***1926-1927 Cowl Mounted Fuel Tank for RHD Vehicles***

Post by VowellArt » Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:43 am

Is the Throttle lever on the carburetor different than on any of the LHD carburetors? The one in this picture (that Peter Kable posted) above looks like it is less of an angle than any of the domestic ones I've seen.
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Re: ***1926-1927 Cowl Mounted Fuel Tank for RHD Vehicles***

Post by JohnH » Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:49 am

Here's my throttle linkage.
DSC06595.JPG
As can be seen, it's the same as what John E. Guitar has on his tourer. Both our cars are original early 26 Geelong models; only a few thousand between the body numbers.
Back on the subject of fuel tanks, there is a dished area just above the low pedal.
DSC06596.JPG


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Re: ***1926-1927 Cowl Mounted Fuel Tank for RHD Vehicles***

Post by Kerry » Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:59 am

Interesting, I have a 26 and a 27, both are the behind the manifold, seems that both are factory.
I'd have to say that my throttle shaft along the steering is also a little longer, putting the leverage between the manifold and the generator.
Martynn, yes the butterfly shaft is on a different angle to the LHD.


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Re: ***1926-1927 Cowl Mounted Fuel Tank for RHD Vehicles***

Post by Allan » Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:09 am

Peter Kable's photo clearly shows the almost straight arm on the throttle plate shaft. Imagine a RHD arm is set at the position with the linkage hole at 12 o'clock and the idle adjust pinch slot at 6 o'clock, on a LHD carb the linkage hole will be at around 2.30. It is the arm that is moved, the idle adjust stays in the same position relative to the throttle plate. Frank's observation that the throttle rod on the steering column is longer on his car is consistent with my observations.

The U shape of the linkage around the back of the manifold has to be just right to get full throttle. Get the curve wrong and the linkage will hit the back of the manifold before the throttle is wide open. I suspect the arm on the steering column may be a little longer than on LHD cars also, so there is greater travel in the linkage. The monkey motion involved with the steering column end of the linkage becomes less the more the lever is pulled down at the quadrant. Radial motion at the column end results in little travel at the carb end the more the lever at the quadrant is pulled down.

I made a hero of myself with one of our club members who had almost given up using his T because it was so sluggish and unresponsive he felt most vulnerable driving it. Somewhere in tinkering with the car, the longer arm on the steering column rod had been swapped with the short one that controlled the timer advance. He was getting only about half throttle as a result. Fortunately, when the little arms were refitted to the rods, they had used split pins to fit them, so swapping them over was easy.

Allan from down under.

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Re: ***1926-1927 Cowl Mounted Fuel Tank for RHD Vehicles***

Post by VowellArt » Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:11 pm

Ok, my next question(s) is what style of carburetor is used with the RHD cars...mostly Holley's or Kingston's or both? The other thing I've been wondering about is since the throttle and spark levers are reversed on RHD cars, what about the transmission pedals? Are they also reversed, where the HI/LOW is towards the outside of the car (right side) and the Brake is towards the inside of the car (left side), where on our LHD cars it is same orientation in regards to the car but on the opposite side of the car (i.e. HI/LOW towards the outside or the car and Brake towards the inside of the car)?

It may seem like I'm asking a lot of questions but when I do the engine/transmission assemblies (yes, there will be more than one per engine year) I need to know if there are any differences between LHD and RHD engine/transmission assemblies...(the engine I assume will be the same, the transmission is where I think if there are any difference it will be with its set up).

Also whilst I'm doing this tank assembly, can any of you tell me for sure if that cardboard pad is used on any of your cars? It used on the late 26-27 cowl mounted tanks here, but I'd like to know if the RHD cars also followed this change from the used of the 2 web strip pads or not? ;)
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Re: ***1926-1927 Cowl Mounted Fuel Tank for RHD Vehicles***

Post by JohnH » Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:32 pm

The pedals are in the same order as LHD cars; i.e. Low, Reverse, Brake.
rsz_pedals.jpg
As far as carburettors are concerned, the same models are used as per LHD, certainly in later years anyway.

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Re: ***1926-1927 Cowl Mounted Fuel Tank for RHD Vehicles***

Post by VowellArt » Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:38 pm

John, looks like you lads make a dimple in the heat deflector that is mounted to the upper floorboard, to clear the exhaust pipe? Is this a standard practice? Or is it just a piece of plain steel plate that you put there to keep the right side floorboards from scorching for the heat of the pipe?
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Re: ***1926-1927 Cowl Mounted Fuel Tank for RHD Vehicles***

Post by JohnH » Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:46 pm

For the fuel tank mounting, there are two pads of material like band lining.
DSC06599.JPG
You can see the end of it just above the mounting strap.
It's secured to the firewall with two rivets.
DSC06600.JPG

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Re: ***1926-1927 Cowl Mounted Fuel Tank for RHD Vehicles***

Post by John E. Guitar » Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:53 pm

Here is the hogshead out of my 26 tourer.

DSC06751.jpg
DSC06750.jpg
DSC06749.jpg
DSC06754.jpg

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Re: ***1926-1927 Cowl Mounted Fuel Tank for RHD Vehicles***

Post by VowellArt » Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:56 pm

So, there is no cardboard used on any of your cars? Good I can remove it from the drawing then.

1926-1927FuelTankAssembly-CowlRHD1-D.jpg
Revision 1-D
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Re: ***1926-1927 Cowl Mounted Fuel Tank for RHD Vehicles***

Post by VowellArt » Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:44 pm

The strap with the wire on your pedal, is a ground of some kind, right? And is not really part of anything to do with RHD?
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Re: ***1926-1927 Cowl Mounted Fuel Tank for RHD Vehicles***

Post by JohnH » Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:25 pm

The heat deflector is a standard factory fitting. (The brake light switch is of course a modern addition)
DSC06601.JPG
DSC06602.JPG

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Re: ***1926-1927 Cowl Mounted Fuel Tank for RHD Vehicles***

Post by John E. Guitar » Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:12 am

Here are a few more photos of my 26 Tourer. I'll add some photos of the RHD exhaust pipe tomorrow,

IMG-1968.jpg
IMG-1969.jpg
IMG-1970.jpg
IMG-1971.jpg
IMG-1975.jpg


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Re: ***1926-1927 Cowl Mounted Fuel Tank for RHD Vehicles***

Post by Kerry » Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:29 am

John, looks like you need to fix a welsh plug. 😬


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Re: ***1926-1927 Cowl Mounted Fuel Tank for RHD Vehicles***

Post by Luke » Wed Jan 15, 2020 4:38 am

Martynn,

I'm not sure if you're still needing any throttle linkage data? Just in case here are three photos - two from a 1915, and one from a 1927 RHD vehicle

IMG_0207.JPG
IMG_0208.JPG
IMG_0209.JPG


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Re: ***1926-1927 Cowl Mounted Fuel Tank for RHD Vehicles***

Post by Luke » Wed Jan 15, 2020 3:55 pm

And one from a 1920 (I realise these are outside the year range for the tank, but assume it's useful for you throttle assy data?):
1920_throttle.jpg
1920_throttle.jpg (49.71 KiB) Viewed 2420 times

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Re: ***1926-1927 Cowl Mounted Fuel Tank for RHD Vehicles***

Post by VowellArt » Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:06 pm

Luke, I capture all pictures posted here, because I am going to be covering all of the T models which used RHD, just like I'm covering all of them that are LHD. RHS throttle linkage and steering column along with the spark and the upside down timer is going to be sooo alien that I think everybody is going to be as fascinated with that set up as I am. ;)

So, earlier cars than the 20's had the rod pass round the front of the intake manifold and 20 and later had it pass round the back of the intake manifold, or does it just depend upon which carburetor you have and what arm it has on the throttle butterfly shaft?
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Re: ***1926-1927 Cowl Mounted Fuel Tank for RHD Vehicles***

Post by JohnH » Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:07 pm

Martynn, this Australian parts catalog might be of interest. http://members.iinet.net.au/~cool386/ca ... eFordT.zip
It lists all the uniquely RHD parts, although using several different terms; "R.H.C", "R.C.C" "R.C". The RHD parts also have an "R" suffix.
Unfortunately, all the illustrations are LHD only - it would appear to be a modified U.S. or Canadian catalog (using North American terminology) with RHD parts added and Australian prices.

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Re: ***1926-1927 Cowl Mounted Fuel Tank for RHD Vehicles***

Post by JohnH » Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:30 pm

Some illustrations from a Canadian Ford Instruction Book:
rsz_fib1.jpg
rsz_fib3.jpg
Attachments
rsz_fib2.jpg


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Re: ***1926-1927 Cowl Mounted Fuel Tank for RHD Vehicles***

Post by Luke » Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:06 am

John, is there any interest in cleaning up that instruction book and making it more usable for printing?

Below is an attempt. I expect you've got a better resolution scan (?) but you can get an idea of how it might come out...

Update - the images below are now adapted from Peter's images. I do them this way to make them easy to print (and for a full manual merge them into a searchable PDF):

img20200116_17524675a.png
img20200116_17562849a.png
img20200116_17592697a.png
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Re: ***1926-1927 Cowl Mounted Fuel Tank for RHD Vehicles***

Post by John E. Guitar » Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:15 am

Here is the RHD exhaust pipe.

The new one is available from Keith in Ballan.

DSC07023.jpg
DSC07022.jpg
DSC07021.jpg


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Re: ***1926-1927 Cowl Mounted Fuel Tank for RHD Vehicles***

Post by Luxford » Thu Jan 16, 2020 2:12 am

I have tried to post better copies of the above scans but its telling me I have too few characters ??????????

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Re: ***1926-1927 Cowl Mounted Fuel Tank for RHD Vehicles***

Post by JohnH » Thu Jan 16, 2020 2:35 am

Here are the full resolution scans. I only have basic image editing so can't do a lot with them.
fib3.jpg
fib2.jpg
fib1.jpg

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Re: ***1926-1927 Cowl Mounted Fuel Tank for RHD Vehicles***

Post by VowellArt » Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:26 am

I've done the Mufflers and as a result the pipe as well, since the front of the pipe never changes there was no reason to show it, it is the rear of the pipe that was important.

21-24ExhaustAssemblyC.jpg

The thing that distinguishes this assembly from the domestic version is that the Canadian pipe has no "electric upset" upon which the front cover of the muffler sets against. The Canadian pipe uses the cotter pin instead.


]
20-24ExhaustAssembly.jpg
Domestic version
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Re: ***1926-1927 Cowl Mounted Fuel Tank for RHD Vehicles***

Post by John Page » Thu Jan 16, 2020 2:47 pm

If you look closely at the pictures John posted you will se a difference in the old and new.
The original pipes where made using a mandrill bender.
Note difference in the two pipes.
I think that the exhaust pipes Larry Smith reproduced a while ago would have been done on a mandrill bender.

Best regards, John Page Australia.
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Scanned docs

Post by Luke » Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:04 pm

JohnH and Peter (Luxford), thanks for the scan info.

I think that to avoid messing this thread around, and because of the likely image data size, it might be better to discuss this in email? Peter, I think you've sent me a PM to which I will respond shortly, cheers.

Martynn,

Thanks for explaining your data collection process. If I come across anything else that may be of use I'll post it up, but can probably get a photo of anything specific you're after, should you ask.

I should be clear that my own car is LHD so I need to rely on others, but as most around here are RHD it's not too hard. Chris, the owner of the '15 and a '27 (not the one pictured) made the comment that he's seen the throttle linkage work in a number of ways. Whether there's a particular pattern to that based on years isn't clear at this stage. I suspect one would need a larger dataset to get a better steer on that?


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Re: ***1926-1927 Cowl Mounted Fuel Tank for RHD Vehicles***

Post by Luxford » Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:28 pm

I am assured the scans will upload by Chris so here we go

I have several copies of the Ford Manuals some in perfect condition.
Some months differ in the illustrations used but the information is always the same.

Martynn the usual RHD set up is throttle arm behind the manifold except for the 2 years when it is in front as illustrated above.
The actual shape of the rod varied, you can see on Luke's posting at 5:38 pm the early version with a distinct bent near the carby and the 1920's version which is a gentle curve around the manifold.
To make sure the scans get through I will post them separately.


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Re: ***1926-1927 Cowl Mounted Fuel Tank for RHD Vehicles***

Post by Luxford » Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:31 pm

Well so much for that???
Obviously the photo's aren't resized as was suggested.

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Re: ***1926-1927 Cowl Mounted Fuel Tank for RHD Vehicles***

Post by John E. Guitar » Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:46 pm

Martynn, The original pipe I have does have the compression bead for the muffler to locate against.

The geometry of the pipe is also different to the LHD versions. I think this was to clear the pedals. Your Facebook friend with the red car at the top of the thread should be able to confirm the differences. JEG
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Re: ***1926-1927 Cowl Mounted Fuel Tank for RHD Vehicles***

Post by Luke » Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:49 pm

Peter,

I've got the scans you sent by email and have responded, thanks.

I'll give them a quick touchup and will see if I can post them in place of the earlier ones that I did from John's images. It may be they need to be shrunk a little in terms of data size.

Update. Peter here are your original images with a very minor cleanup, thank you.

The 'printable' versions I've put into my previous post. I call them 'printable' because although the colour looks wonderful unless you have a really good printer (and lots of money to pay for the consumables) they never come out as readable as a cleaned up b&w image...

img20200116_17524675.png
img20200116_17562849.png
img20200116_17592697.png


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Re: ***1926-1927 Cowl Mounted Fuel Tank for RHD Vehicles***

Post by John Page » Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:14 pm

I know that we have been bouncing around from one subject to another but to set things right while we are on the subject of the Canadian presser's steel mufflers 1921 - 1927, here are two images I posted a few years ago on the old Forum.

The first image is from an September 1921 overseas edition Ford Manual. This images shows the cotter pin. The next image is from a January 1927 Ford Manual. The later version is showing the upset in the exhaust pipe. So some time between the two dates the Canadian Company changed over to the USA Company's practise.

Best regards, John Page, Australia.
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Re: ***1926-1927 Cowl Mounted Fuel Tank for RHD Vehicles***

Post by VowellArt » Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:42 am

Thankye John, That's good to know, I'll make a note of that.
Fun never quits!

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