Brazing the steering quadrant

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It's Bill
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Brazing the steering quadrant

Post by It's Bill » Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:47 pm

Hello, I am repairing my 1911 steering column for the upcoming driving season. The brass quadrant is extremely worn which allows the throttle and timing levers to move up and down at will. I thought about putting in a new reproduction quadrant, but discovered it is quite different from the original. So now I am thinking about building up the notched (worn) areas of the existing quadrant to their original height and then cutting new notches.

Has anyone done this? Is brass brazing rod an acceptable color match? Is there anything I should watch out for, like not melting the quadrant? I plan to protect the areas surrounding the notched parts with rags soaked in cold water. Are there other tricks, like somehow making a dam to keep the molten brass where it belongs before it cools?

One more thing: the brass case assembly with the gear teeth in it is slightly loose in the column. Can this be tightened up by carefully peening the long rivets that pass through the quadrant and hold everything together?

Any advice is greatly appreciated. Cheers, Bill
Attachments
Throttle quadrant
Throttle quadrant
Crop IMG_3426.jpg (44.88 KiB) Viewed 5762 times
Timing quadrant
Timing quadrant
Crop IMG_3424.jpg (44.58 KiB) Viewed 5762 times
Throttle Quadrant.  Yipes.
Throttle Quadrant. Yipes.
Crop IMG_3420.jpg (50.76 KiB) Viewed 5762 times
Last edited by It's Bill on Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.


tdump
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Re: Brazing the steering quadrant

Post by tdump » Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:09 pm

Forgive my lack of knowledge as for a name of it or whatever,but there is supposed to be a puddy,like silly pudy that you can put around a weld area to prevent heat travel and damage.Maby by me mentioning it someone will know what I speak of.
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Ruxstel24
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Re: Brazing the steering quadrant

Post by Ruxstel24 » Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:13 pm

I will say, it’s tricky to braze brass without a meltdown.


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Re: Brazing the steering quadrant

Post by Wayne Sheldon » Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:30 pm

Welding brass is quite tricky! Unlike steel, the transition from solid to liquid is fast, and with only slight color changes, difficult to see it coming. Also, because brass does conduct heat much more efficiently than does steel, a large area can be ready to simply flush away all at once without much if any warning. I have packed brass items in regular sand to support the item's shape with good results. Regular fine sand does get blown around by the torch'e wind, but still helps a lot. I also with a few tricky items set the piece into plaster of Paris keeping just the area to be welded exposed. That worked very well. Once the welding was completed and cooled, chip and break away the plaster.

I just use regular pre-fluxed brazing rod that I usually buy from the welding supply store. The color usually matches very well. Of course that could vary from item to item. I welded the brass headlamp rims for my '15 runabout with adequate success! Color was fine, final finish was fair. For those, I carefully shaped strap-iron inside and outside forms to hold the metal from collapsing.

It does take some practice to get used to controlling the puddle. Try it on some scrap or junk first.

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Re: Brazing the steering quadrant

Post by DanTreace » Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:41 pm

My first and last attempt on brass brazing that part was a failure.

The repro brass quadrant was already mounted on a later column tube so the holes were off for re-use.

Had shortened another column tube for better seating, and when trying to braze up the old holes, part of the flange glob melted off and fell down on the concrete.

So easy fix, bought a new brass un-drilled quadrant, and then drilled it for best fit. BTY, the steering case is later, polished off the nickel and used an early style repop cover for the early look.

shorten steering gear 50.jpg
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Re: Brazing the steering quadrant

Post by tdump » Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:42 pm

Is it possiable to tig weld it instead of braze? I know I looked at a cooling tank on a hit and miss engine that was all copper and the fellow had tig welded the piping,tank and all with house wire!
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Re: Brazing the steering quadrant

Post by rickd » Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:43 pm

Certainly not the same type of quadrant you are working on; I used a small file and re-cut each worn down groove on the quadrant during a 25 Touring resto. Otherwise the advice given here about practicing the braze first is very good advice.


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Re: Brazing the steering quadrant

Post by R.V.Anderson » Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:49 pm

During restoration, I replaced the very worn quadrant on my '14 with a new repop. You are right, the hole for the column IS shaped differently from the originals, but it's not so far off that the piece is unusable.You can remove your worn original and use it for a pattern to gently re-work the repop part, or make a wood pattern exactly the same shape in cross-section as your column and use that for a trial and error reshaping. With patience it's possible to make it fit exactly as the original, and then you can re-rivet it and be on your merry way.

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Re: Brazing the steering quadrant

Post by brucesp » Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:43 pm

I'd suggest crafting a patch piece out of brass, then silver-solder it in place. Silver melts a few hundred degrees below brass, so you won't risk a blowout trying to build up the brass like you mentioned, and the repair will be plenty strong. Polish it up, and the thin line of sliver it won't be too noticeable.


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Re: Brazing the steering quadrant

Post by halftracknut » Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:57 pm

Then after the repair why not send it out for a brass plating


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Re: Brazing the steering quadrant

Post by Scott_Conger » Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:41 pm

Bruce, I read down through responses before I posted mine and I would do as you have suggested. I'd remove all of the remnants of the notches back to their root, to establish the "baseline" and silver solder a piece of curved brass into place, and refile the teeth with a triangular or similar, file. Done properly, the repair will be all but invisible.

As far as the wobble in the column, the top of the column can be shrunk with heat and then if still slightly loose, shimstock between the quadrant casting and column will tighten it up. Do not expect the rivets to solidify two disparate sized parts.
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Re: Brazing the steering quadrant

Post by jiminbartow » Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:42 am

Can you straighten and flatten out the worn areas on the quadrant with the grinding disc of a dremel tool, and then, carefully cut new grooves, then tighten each of the two lever springs by drilling new holes in lever rods closer to the firewall for the spring retainer pins so the lever springs are more compressed, thus pulling the levers more tightly against the quadrant? When done, polish the brass. Jim Patrick


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Re: Brazing the steering quadrant

Post by fliverfan » Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:59 am

Might be worth a drive to Ball & Ball in Exton, PA. If worse came to worse they probably could make an exact copy.


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Re: Brazing the steering quadrant

Post by John kuehn » Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:02 am

The brass repo quadrants are a pretty good copy of the originals. Not perfect but good enough to slightly modify for a really close copy of the originals. Easier to do then cutting out the worn areas and soldering in brass strips and cutting notches. Either way whichever repair is done no one will know but the guy who owns the car.


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Re: Brazing the steering quadrant

Post by Allan » Wed Jan 15, 2020 5:12 pm

Each column is individually assembled, so the rivet holes in the column, the quadrant and box line up only on the original set of components. When substituting other parts, I found it easier to fill the holes and start again. I threaded the holes in the box and filled those with threaded brass rod. I welded the holes in the column shut and filed them to finish. With a new quadrant having no holes, you are now in a position to make nice tight perfectly aligned rivet holes through the component set. It is still a job better done with a separate set of eyes to keep the drill operator on track.

Hope this helps.
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Re: Brazing the steering quadrant

Post by SurfCityGene » Wed Jan 15, 2020 6:14 pm

Bill, You might also check how much spring tension is on the levers. My quadrant is a lot like yours on the throttle side cause I guess I drive it too often-hard or play with the gas too much? I'm making a friction block to install on the throttle and spark rods so I can keep the idle running at the speed where I set it. I found a good spare I might use sometime in the future. Good Luck and let us know how it turns out.
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